Naraka

Travel Power Suppression doesn't remove your momentum. If you're using fly, for example, and you shoot, you'll still slide through the air. At most, it might suppress the +movement, but if you have slotted swift/hurdle, you can still get a good amount of momentum in combat. I think the most fun would be for ATs who can fire at range, basically keeping on the move while shooting. It takes some finesse to maneuver on the ice which is part of the fun.

On my elec armor characters, I occasionally do get KB'ed when I do jump around which only reminds me that KB doesn't work in those instances...but it's such a rare occurrence, I am constantly *re-reminded* when it does happen. Or to word it more plainly, it's not common to be KB while jumping. For one, the foe has to be using a power on you that triggers KB, two it has to actually land and three it has to be timed to trigger for the duration you've left the ground...i.e. if the target uses a KB attack and I jump, it would calculate I had KB protection...if I am landing and they trigger the KB attack I will fall down. The "state of the team" tends to revolve around effects your teammates provide. To put a bit of perspective on you, being Knocked down doesn't = defeat. You can be knocked down for a second or so and *gasp*...your game doesn't end or you're not dead. If a situation occurs that you died while knocked back, it probably wasn't due to the knockback since that would put you on the ground in the first place.

Going a different route of consideration besides the standard "It wouldn't work" since I'm sure the OP doesn't think it as a solution but a hypothetical. Instead, I'd just take the circumstance presented and see what I would think to do if I were in such a game mode. Firstly, I'd assume that certain effects wouldn't be "all targets" just to keep utility in powers that inflict confuse. These are specific PBAoE heals/buffs. Such effects would still be AoE but only affect allies so that, if a foe is confused, they will still only affect the opposite faction rather than having no effect. It would also keep the Leadership pool from just being a thorn in everyone's sides. I'd also go on the assumption that your own AoE attacks don't hurt yourself since it wouldn't make since that a ranged AT using a PBAoE nuke would hurt themselves with their own nuke or throwing their TAoE at close range wouldn't also blast themselves. I'd also assume that powers that have a 16 target cap would still be limited to that cap so adding a teammember in there would take up one of those targets. Taunting effects should also probably be limited to opposing factions too...it wouldn't make sense to "friendly fire" taunt. With those circumstances, I'd say cones would suddenly be very useful since you can direct your attacks to cause less harm to all allies, maybe only putting certain sturdy allies in the radius. You might not fill out the target cap but you could still be hitting some foes while completely avoiding targeting your allies. Tactics might be more of a detriment. If you have allies with high defense but only slot moderately for Acc, you could probably still spam a lot of AoEs, rarely hitting them in the first place and keeping tactics *OFF* would keep it that way. Obviously, single target strategies would be your best bet. It's the safest option. It would still likely be good to have volley fire action, having your team queue up their AoEs together before the melees rush in. After the melees are in place, you probably want to cool off on the AoEs. Someone mentioned control ATs not being welcome, I disagree and say that they'd probably end up being the proxy tank on a team of mostly ranged ATs. The controller CCs things in place and everyone else just plasters the mobs with AoEs. The problem would be if you're a lone melee in that group to which it might be helpful for the ranged ATs to coordinate targeting the furthest foes in a group rather than the center. A lot of people were boo booing on armor set Tier 9s but with the extra survival, you're practically completely safe save for situations like an Invuln melee with a psi nuker. I can also see Dark Miasma being less popular since a lot of its premier effects are AoE, namely Tar Patch and Darkest Night. I can also see Storm Summoning being difficult to use. Kinetics would likely be more safe than Storm if only because most of its effects would likely not cross that friendly fire line (fulcrum shift specifically targets foes and allies so it'd make since it wouldn't be affected). Tankers might feel a bit safer regardless of friendly fire, the team just might have to coordinate their AoEs a bit so not everyone is firing them off at the same time...basically, if the Tanker is being pushed to red, stop using AoEs. But I get the feeling a Tanker has the chops to be built to stand in a sea of friendly fire and still perform. Also, bring on your Granite Tankers/Brutes! Also, bring on your Force Field support! If everyone is at 55% def to all and no one has tactics running, save for some auto-hit effects (that you should coordinate), everyone should be golden for the most part. I could possibly see some kind of extra stat added to buff sets that specifically decreases the damage of friendly fire. I also see this causing very specific meta builds focused even more on defense than currently. Fighting pool might even be more mandatory than it is now with Maneuvers also being a staple to eek out more team defense. If buffs like Insulation Shield/Ice Shield/Sonic Barrier/etc ended up affecting foes and allies if used, the obvious solution is to not cast it during combat or at the very least, wait until there are far fewer foes left when you do. ST focused buffs suddenly seem a lot more interesting if that is the case. RIP Masterminds.

Was just playing some characters with fly and thought about another concept for a variation on the Prestige Power Slide. Similar animation (so you're sliding) but it removes friction so if you've got Super Speed, Super Jump, Fly or some combination of Swift, Sprint and Hurdle slotted to get you some speed, you'll continue to glide in the direction you were moving in for a few seconds. It could be a P2W travel power or maybe a whole new power in a new power pool or maybe replacing a power in an existing pool. You could remove Stealth, put Invisibility in its place (since you can't run both and they don't provide any unique benefit besides one having higher +def), add this travel power in place of Invisibility and categorize it as a travel power choosable without any other pool picks. Call it Creeping or Furtive Sneak or Sneaking and it moderately improves all forms of travel speed (run, fly and jump) but gives a large decrease in "control", that control being how easily you can stop on a dime. You could also add a huge global -interrupt if that can assist in powers with interruptible activations like snipes and Assassin's Strike. What's the point of this? Fun. You can technically activate powers while still slipping and sliding around, mostly usable on ranged attacks but still functional to activate on melee powers. Conceptually, it would fit right at home on an ice-type character or someone who manipulates kinetic energy. Or maybe if they ever add roller skates/blades as boot options.

Well, you said MMORPGs aren't hard. All those MMORPGs that laid the ground work over decades of play for the more modern MMOs usually had encounters/situations/mechanics many of the new era would consider "quite unfair".

We technically don't *need* anything. We didn't need Shock Therapy but now it's a support set. It's usually the go-to option for things we don't have. One could possibly add or change an existing set to accommodate more concepts or mechanics, but with many add-ons and changes, they are either very generic a plain (Martial Art's alternate animations) or undesired (people don't want the Charge mechanic added to Energy Melee) so you could incorporate new ideas into new sets or ATs instead. That said, one thing I want from new sets isn't particularly a unique coat of paint (although that's a plus), I personally desire new playstyles and mechanics. -Regen, while useful in some fights, is a very boring effect. It hardly does anything in normal fights so building a set around it without some other style difference is a hard sell for me. Consider that Beam Rifle also has -regen...but it's main mechanic is Disintegration which spreads to nearby targets and increases the damage of your attacks. I guess this set does have a modified Voltaic Sentinel which is kind of rare but none of the powers plays off of it. Something cool I'd like to play with in the game: maybe a multiple-snipe blast set...or a self toggle power that turns your next blast into an interruptible "snipe" that powers it up. Sort of like a "hold down the button" charge mechanic (which I don't believe is possible here) or a kind of reverse Titan Weapon's momentum where you turn on the toggle and the next blast can to "power up" until you turn the toggle off for bigger damage and grander effect.

All polls are rather pointless, especially those that aren't regulated, because how data is interpreted can be at the whim of the bias of the interpreter. Your post can be an example of that. Not criticizing your opinion, just stating the realization. People get paid good money to skew polls and surveys.

I have no issue with stating criticism of a suggested idea or offering alternatives. The problem is, some people take things way too personally (both the people who make suggestions and those that criticize them). I like to level with people who seem to have more knowledge or experience in a subject too, but I also don't like to be condescended to. As for the reality of suggestions, that's often why I can take a contrarian position on things, because I realize most aren't going anywhere. With suggestions that are going somewhere, that's likely when you'll see the most personalized attacks going on if you take into consideration the ration of *moving ideas to not. *Clarification: example of moving ideas are feedback and suggestions for changes being tested.

Group #1 seems rather nebulous but I suppose that is where I'd fit. Although I don't just solo, I mainly do TF/SF in teams and solo story arcs. But then I can also fit into group #4 since I do like making competent characters and be challenged in the content I play. Although it's not really about creating and testing builds but rather experiencing the different combos for myself since you will hear people complain about a set or rave about a set, rather than going by word of mouth, I'd rather decide what is good and what isn't. Like when I made a Savage Melee Brute, all I heard was how nice that set is but it felt feeble. Trying Energy Melee, all I hear is how it's garbage...but it's fun stunning *everything* and it looks good with your own choice of colors. I could also be a part of #5 since I'm a team player. I'd sooner hold back using some of my powers so that everyone on the team contributes before I go about carrying anyone. In that respect, I want to be challenged to adapt to the team and the foes present. Practically every quality stated there I fit...except I don't use other people's builds and I do like making my own builds with varying levels of specializations. However, none of these groups speak to the qualities I feel are most descriptive of my participation in the game: while I do discuss a lot about suggestions and changes on the forums, arguments and all, I am a rather quiet player. I don't complain some ranged knocked back my target, or foam at the mouth when I see Dimension Shifted foes, if a party member is carrying me I am indifferent and content I don't like I don't play. My game revolves around alts, not because I like making builds but rather I like making characters. Like, if my main character is a martial artist and he had an experienced teacher...I'll make that teacher as a character...or if my main character's mom is an inventor that makes support tech for law enforcement...I'll make someone who's using her tech...or if that mom had a rival in university who ended up in the dumps and now tried to get revenge for stealing her ideas by making magic robots with weird powers...I'll make that robot with weird powers. And those examples aren't made up. That's my game and if I start getting bored, I stop playing for a while. It doesn't mean I'll never come back or that I am completely hook on this game. It's just a game to play on the side of doing a bunch of other stuff. [EDIT] and since I seem to be a part of multiple groups, it's not such an easy divide, I would assume.

Eh, there was more to the argument than that though. One side pointed to the lack of KB resist, the other pointed to it's 5pt higher KB protection (10vs15). One side pointed to its nullification while in the air, the other pointed to it's passive nature and it always being active. One side pointed to its stifling nature in funneling you into certain travel powers, the other pointed to it being a flavor aspect of the concept. I feel both sides seemed pretty even. I never heard any compromises, like lowering the KB protection to 10 and putting it into Static Shield or anything. Why should Elec get passive comprehensive KB protection, exactly? I guess you could point to Scrapper Ninjutsu which I feel is kind of a cop out but it also gets lower value KB protection and resistance for being passive. Neither side budged on what they wanted.

We can't even do that because people that get too serious start complaining as if we're here petitioning to have the game changed instead of having discussions on our personal perspectives. Do you actually believe we are trying to change the current game? But I bet that didn't stop you from taking that position and then vilifying their opinions. People start throwing around their egos more and more, losing the perspective of the thread's intent.

But as has already been demonstrated and explained, none of those ideas you just made will make defense or recharge less enticing. There really is no other suggestion to accomplish a better balance. The only other option is put more settings on the treadmill which doesn't really balance anything. Either those setting will replace the current +4/x8 or no one will care because it's optional.

A good half of my characters don't have travel powers though. I have done work in the shard before, it's just not as common as leveling up alts through the standard content. Putting them in more missions in the game, I wouldn't be against.

You didn't have to go that deep, as I got your drift around the 1st or so paragraph. I was already willing to discuss the shifts to toggles but might have been trying to get across that both removing the crash *and* lowering the recharge while also making it a toggle might be a bit much though. That out of the way, I believe I was talking about someone else's suggestion in another thread about tier 9s giving extra powers using the temp power tray. That might be something to consider when giving some utility that varies between each of these tier 9s. Although that would also require making new powers which is likely a huge workload to the HC team, especially if there were more than 1 of these temp powers.

Yeah, there are entire Youtube channels dedicated to talking about HxH, the characters and Nen in general. It's basically the power system of that series. Ultimately, with Nen, you can do anything if you understand and train Nen. Your imagination and willpower are your limitations. Bio and Rad aside, do you play those sets for the damage, sustainability and utility of the tier 9? Or is it the rest of the set? But including both, I think it's been said they are both stronger performing armor sets (possibly even overperforming). If that is the goal, to make all armor sets perform stronger, then that should be the stated goal not obfuscated by promises of making the sets more fun and dynamic. And in that respect, it actually made blasting less dynamic. Now the ranged nukes are more akin to extra strong AoEs and the differentiation between sets is decreased because all sets get crashless nukes instead of it being a feature or stipulation of certain sets. What about instead of a crash after the armor tier 9, you have to be in a weakened state before you can use the power? Can even put a heal in there...I think the OP talked about mechanics to "reset the fight". There's very little space for growth, really. And by high levels, you're also looking at Incarnate powers.

Frankly, I would argue that making the tier 9s as accessible as possible makes them *LESS* interesting, likely because you have to balance that level of access into the power's effects. Powers that are less accessible, available less often, have stipulations to be concerned with can be more powerful. Or maybe our philosophies don't line up. I feel, in the realm of a game, a system like the one that exists from HunterXHunter is more a demonstration of balance as you can put more limiting conditions on your own Nen to make your Nen much more powerful. Concepts like postmortem Nen are some of the most powerful abilities in that system and usually require the user to be dying or dead. That introduces a *truly* dynamic system with a large spectrum. A toggle that you just have to turn off is less dynamic than the current iteration of tier 9s.

Before I make some statements about your posts, I'll just remind you that I'm pretty contrarian when it comes to the forums. Not to be combative but to spark discussion and to get people to engage with topics that might not get brought up or focused on. That being said, I agree that I'd probably enjoy CoX more if the powers and combat had a more dynamic feel. As is, it's pretty strategic in how you plan, position and target for your skills. So I do like that dynamism point you're making...HOWEVER, that is literally antithetical to those of the min/max side of the game. They don't want dynamism, they want static. Consider there is an AT whose concept is built around these dynamic shifts of unlimited power and more meek reservist styles, and what do you think the meta does to it? They completely circumvent these shifts and fight tooth and nail to keep it that way. In case anyone reading this post don't know, I'm talking about the Dominator and specifically the Domination power. In that example, dynamism and the mechanisms to circumvent the shifts in this power don't really coexist well in the game's meta. It's do or don't, perma or bust. If these powers were still dynamic and not perma and mainly only boosted survival some, I don't really see them being much of a capstone as a toggle either. There's not much further you can go with the armor sets because survival is pretty much hard limited by hit chance clamp, resistance caps and HP. So the spectrum lies with "not dying" and dead. Where does the rest of the set lie on that spectrum? Likely somewhere in between, closer toward "not dying" so the only growth left is pushing the rest of the way the full extreme of "not dying". There could be stuff like utility added to these powers, but as toggles with such fast cooldowns, you're really boosting a set of ATs that likely don't need more help in that department. Still could be an avenue to go toward but consideration really should be kept on inter-AT balance. If you're adding in utility to these ATs through the tier 9, why should it have no price? Okay, so it's a toggle that will become really expensive to run after a time, but is that actually a price? It's only a price to those that want to try to perma it but to everyone else, it's just extra cheese. It's a pretty nihilistic perspective but it's true. Next time you discuss changes about IOs and rebalancing them, are you on the side that wants to keep certain bonuses like def or rech the same? But if we're talking more pie-in-the-sky here, why do the tier 9s have to function the same for each AT? Why can't 1 of the ATs (such as Tankers) get a much more milder buff (like shaved down to 10% of the buff they get now) but also apply that buff to teammates? Making them a semi-team support....while Brutes get a more offensively fueled toggle that eats away at their fury? I guess, to me, these blanket suggestions, while somewhat "easier" to grasp and apply, only goes in so far as to be easy to implement but extremely difficult to balance. It'd be easier to just re-asses the power from the ground up, to include the AT and their role on a team.

Having read the 1st page of the thread, my thoughts started to drift away from tier 9s but to sets as a whole. Something I notice is that, as posters roll ideas off each other, the mentality seems to start revolving around min/maxing. Looking at what sets lack and trying to take any avenue that powerset has available to fill that hole or make up for that lack. That isn't how you min/max. You min/max with your power pool choices, your slot choices, IOs and powerset *combinations*. Especially with armor sets, they are suppose to have kinks to exploit, and you the player use your knowledge to cover that kink or avoid getting it exploited. That all being said, if you're going to redesign the tier 9s, you likely have to do it on a set-by-set basis, not through a one-size-fits-all change. Some sets, you might be able to sell it as a short duration toggle with no crash, others are likely better as long recharge clicks. But beyond that, why is there always this push for sub-3min recharge times for everything? AoE holds, I could kind of see with a lower cooldown but what purpose does having this power on a 2min cooldown (once you slot it)? Wouldn't it be easier to change the power to a toggle but *keep* the recharge and if the power is deemed not too strong, you can then lower it. But if this toggle starts off with a low 3min cooldown and you find some unplanned interaction that makes it way stronger than anticipated, you then have to look into nerfing that thing which is apparently taboo. But the sets can already accomplish sustainable performance on decent difficulty settings in teams. What is the goal here, performance wise? Not talking about what you want out of the power or powerset but how does this function on a team? Team cohesion is on a shaky platform as is. Is this suppose to make teaming better? Solo better? Are we looking at shaking up sustain numbers across the game? While I wouldn't mind a change to tier 9s overall, there's also that voice I hear that chants when discussing bringing certain changes around to things like IOs: "Just leave it the fark alone." It echoes when I discuss things I want to change as well as when I'd rather they stay the same.

Arachnos are no slouches either. Incidentally, those groups (Arachnos, Longbow and Family) are quite common groups to face from start to finish on villain side...almost too common.

Are you quartering IO recharge bonuses and removing Hasten?

Any suggestion asking to make IH a high END toggle I will disagree with. I can tell the concern is solely on Scrapper/Brute because I do NOT need more endurance consumption on my Regen Stalkers who have no +recovery innate. And even if you say "Oh, well we'll give Stalker Regen +recovery in [insert power]", I'll just say good...now keep IH a click too so I can get a positive return on my recovery for a change rather than suffering a give and take to get to par lol But I'm in agreement with @MTeague. I like Regen as a click heavy set. No other set is like it with 4 self-buff clicks, 5 if you include Revive. My build for NB/Regen actually incorporates another in Unrelenting. I'm not seeing a huge reason to shift to more passiveness unless the goal is to make the set stronger.

On live, I had an Elec/Regen Stalker that I adored and RP'ed with and on HC, I rerolled him into an Elec/Bio Stalker. He was pretty good, but overall, the concept for my character is someone that gets a hole punched in them but make the damage disappear 1sec later. So I re-rerolled him back to Elec/Regen and transferred all the IOs and inf. It's a kind of finicky set up which is why I like it. I also have a NB/Regen Stalker. He's not so much finicky as he is a Scrapper with controllable crits. He even has taunt and was my first incarnate character on HC. I don't see an issue giving Regen some debuff resistance. Seems right down its ally.

Another funny aside: I keep reading talking points about how the live devs implemented IOs, how they encouraged +recharge, how they designed this or that...where is that when talking about armor tier 9s in the Suggestions forum? I also hear a lot of flack about all the other mistakes the live devs made or how so and so had horrible ideas. That seems to go out the window in this context though.

The post a proposition. Or ask people in the thread, what IO bonuses/sets would entice you to not build for defense or recharge?

"Better" is a subjective descriptor. The overall feasibility is the point of contention, a point that several posters (I want to say @Coyote is one) have already concede wouldn't be popular thus not as feasible. Popularity aside, a lot of healthy changes could be made if the entire system was balanced as a whole rather than added in pieces (later powersets/pools, IOs and incarnates). At best, we're discussing bandaids that won't ever occur.