Naraka

I don't personally think so. Outside of ATs like Stalkers, the set has other utilities that could be the set's focus since that is what the set's gimmick is. If, for example, Shadow Maul remained the same cast/arc/rech but the damage was slightly bumped, it wouldn't be meta but it would still be useful. It also wouldn't be OP but then it doesn't need to be. The set's gimmick is utility, not AoE. To those sets' credit, your metric to rank the melee sets purposefully omitted aspects like out-of-set AoE which would benefit Dark Melee the most. Coupled with Soul Drain, those late-game and pool AoEs get a generous boost and patch up a shortcoming the set has in the AoE department. It's unpopular, but I'd have rather the set remained more ST and utility focused. Same with players advocating to keep Energy Melee ST focused, I personally don't get how those players seem to get more credibility in their view of the set but anyone pushing back on modernizing DM are mostly scoffed at. I feel another aspect that gets ignored is power pool access. In the early games, Cross Punch didn't exist. Wall of Force, Spring Attack, etc etc. These and other powers are bridges that shore up gaps that you can either live with or actively fill if you desire. Instead of seeing this as a benefit, it's viewed as a detriment. If the set cannot fill all it's own gaps, it's a hole, IOs don't count and what is meta is the goal. Ignore the fact sets like Titan Weapons don't often deal with out-of-set attacks, that should really be a benefit to sets that can...but it's not...and it should. It's one of the reasons I liked the idea of Dark Consumption being a long duration DoT. If it was a DoT, that gives the power room to do more damage than normal, it opens up the prospect of other effects like debuffs and it would still fall more into the set's actual niche of being more a utility set vs a DPS AoE machine like many other sets.

No sir. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. The reason I suggested aiming the suggestion toward AE is because it already exists and there is already a consensus for more content and using the community to get it. How do you come to that conclusion? From rereading your OP, you're requesting to add a lot of systems, contacts, tutorials, stories/arcs/paths, incarnate integration, unique item drops, etc. While some of these things can technically be considered as already available systems, you're still requesting all new stuff. So who writes the arcs? Who codes the contacts and tutorials? Who lines up all this work? *throws arms up in the air* Lol that's AE. You just added a bunch of extra work into the suggestion. But like I said before, you can probably make the suggestion a lot more simpler if you actually try to use AE and cut out the majority of the unneeded complexities. The barebones already exists.

Not really alone. Granted, I don't see a reason to make SM ST, but I'd have preferred it stay similar to how it was rather than a no-thought AoE.

I have it on 2 builds, my Bio/Fire/Mako Tanker and my Dark/Martial Dominator. Technically, I have it on other builds but they tend to only use it for the fly speed out of combat. The Tanker is a flier so taking Afterburner wasn't a big issue. As is, he's a semi-hover tank who uses lots of cone attacks. How he uses Afterburner is for an Alpha-strike softener tool. With it on, he has nearly soft-capped defense to all which he uses by hovering into a spawn with it on, lets the mob throw their initial volley and then turn it off to start using AoEs and control. For my Dominator, it's kind of a utility tool. He's a teleporter so I had to take 1 extra power besides hover to get Afterburner (I took Air Superiority in place of one of my secondary melee attacks) but I specifically slotted it with a stealth IO, several other defense uniques and slotted the defense up too. It's use, for a teleporter, is to combine it with something like Ninja Run to gain increased manuvering control (kind of like combat jumping's extra mid-air control...but you can actually run it with ninja run), stealth when I want to bypass foes and a good chunk of defense. He isn't at max level so he doesn't have Scorpion Shield yet but the build would be soft-capped with it on. Of course, you can't use it during combat but I don't need it to. Again, it's more a tool to run around stealthed and not be disturbed. Neither are likely optimal uses or for meta-builds, but it does does have its uses and I enjoy making unorthodox builds.

I probably will eventually. I rarely see suggestions for AE. But it a structure could be created to facilitate sliding such arcs onto contacts, perhaps even setting up a rotation with some merit rewards, you could probably manage to make something similar to what the OP is aimed for but using community resources...that and maybe expand some options in mission creation.

I tend to build characters around combos, themes or colors. For example: I was playing around with Psi Melee color and really liked the look of Mass Levitate colored bright white and blue. As I started messing around with the other powers colored the same, I noticed how it looked a lot like wind or air and with some considerations of what I wanted to pair with it, I ended up creating a Cryokinesis/Ice Armor/Mako Stalker, the Cryokinesis being Psi Melee colored bright white and blue. I conceptualized Boggle as using Snow blinding, creating tiny ice mirrors to focus light into a target's eyes and confusing them. The rest of the set is pretty consistent, creating currents of super-chilled super-dense air to hammer, toss and hold foes with pressurized jets of cold air formed into blades and fists. On the reverse end, I thrive on creating combos that are mismatch and coming up with concepts for them. I don't think I could ever stomach being limited by conceptually thematic choices, especially when other sets fit better. Anything fire likely benefits from mitigation which fire doesn't have. Anything Ice likely benefits from offense since Ice tends to come with the holds/-rech. I've been enjoying the pairing of Energy Melee and Dark Armor as pairing DA with DM seems rather bland to me but stacking stuns is a game in itself.

To put this in an analogy with regards to my perspective: To you, AE missions are playing pretend as this suggestion is to me being a make-believe solution. While I can certainly see the prospect of AE missions being unintegrated into the world/game, why not look into making AE *more* integrated? Why not create systems where you can "attach" mission arcs to existing contacts or new contacts? Why not allow players to pick buildings and places for the mission entrances? You can then just put labels in the mission text that describes what motivations are in the arc. I think the only argument might be they aren't "canon" or dev sanctioned or something...but a lot of the suggestions are pushing the effort of these kind of projects onto the community anyway so where do you stand there?

The underlying argument, if engaged, would have been that given how hugely complex it is, it likely couldn't achieve everything desired either by the individual's speculated suggestion or by the community who would eventually express changes and additions to it. It wasn't a rebuttal, it was a demonstration. A demonstration of how it is hugely complex and the shortcomings it will undoubtedly have. 1. Good news! Someone else can make arcs for you! 2. That is the overarching problem I'm pointing out. Affecting the world is what many people are pushing for villains but it's unobtainable. My main point was, you're not going to please everyone. There's going to be something that isn't covered. I'm not chasing perfection, but moreso emphasizing the complexity involved and simplifying it would really just put you closer and closer to making AE missions...but even at its most complex incarnation, it wouldn't have the complexities of AE missions. I'm still surprised at some of the usages I've read with regards to how AE is used to facilitate roleplaying and it's really downplayed because many view it as just for farming.

Hey now, listen... There's a lot of potential and good story telling using AE as a tool. Just because some abuse it for rewards doesn't take that away. Also, as much as I disagree with most of your preferences, I do have to agree with the portion of playing a role tends get flack here despite it being an RPG. I think people are taking this whole prospect of "I'm a big-bad! I do what I want!" and then roleplaying that as the player sitting at the desk. No, you're just a lowly participant in the game. The game dictates the boundaries and you play within it. Just because your character thinks they can do what they want doesn't actually mean they can unless you put forth the effort to make that happen. I hear a lot of complaints that you're just a lackey, but what if I'm not? To me, the contact needs me far more than I need them and I can headcanon just how much I leverage that. As for the earlier proposition of rewriting the dialog, can we not? I'm sure it's in good faith to make "character agency" easier to roleplay, but as described in the post itself: "As much as the rewritten version of this is "scrubbed" of the original flavour, and as much as the original flavour was "fun"..." You're pretty much removing flavor and fun for blandness and staleness. In the given example, being confronted by something inoffensive and vague will get an inoffensive and vague response. If confronted by something more directed and offensive, it's easier to grasp the emotions that would accompany such. If an uptight shrink did post something like that about my character, how the character responds is indicative to the character's psyche. If they get angry and defensive or go on a rampage or attack the person, there might be some underlying truth to their analysis. If my character doesn't care, it could be that my character has some acceptance of the analysis...or the analysis is so hilariously wrong, I see no point in actually acting out in response. Flip the script and use the second example, I either have to conjure what the shrink said about my character AND my response, removing aspects of genuine emotion...or just accept the text at face value and see the shrink as a target and nothing more. The heft of the issue is, to get the flipped script version, extra work has to be put forth that ends up *removing* the previous interaction's authenticity. I feel it's just better to put said effort into additional content instead.

It obviously is because you can do it now. Exaggerations aside, you're basically saying give character agency without player agency. To differentiate those terms, "character agency" is the buzzword thrown around mostly with regards to story threads created by writers not lining up with motivations created by players. In reality, it's moreso suppose to outline the illusion of the character participant affecting the story. "Player agency" in this context is the player sitting at the keyboard and their participation in fulfilling their character's motivations and decisions. This can be as simple as creating "headcanon" of what your character would actually do or say in the context of different situations, or as complex as creating outside and/or inside content to facilitate these decisions. At the end of the day, I'm not stating something is a bad idea or shouldn't be implemented, I'm more or less trying to be frank and the frank truth is, you basically want someone else to provide your character agency. You don't want to put forth the effort beyond creating a character, costume and bio, to facilitate that agency. Yes? No? Or fuck you, Naraka? Probably the 3rd response sense that tends to be the vibe I get every time I put forth this type of rational.

And how is this suggestion more simpler than making your own AE missions?

You don't even have to ignore all that much to RP that. Just change your costume and think of a means of getting to the Rouge Isles. You're mostly beating down villains with a few Longbow but if players can justify their killing of enemy mobs as "arresting", they can surely justify knocking out a few Longbow and sending them to their own med-bays in Nerva or wherever. Whether it's just getting a scoop into the inner workings of Arachnos' forces or attempting to upheave their command structure from the inside, there's plenty of ways to work through doing these arcs while in-character.

Then you're PvPing wrong. The difference between PvP and PvE is there is a right and wrong way to play it and the right way doesn't care about your wrong way.

PvP players don't care about themes, customization or animation preferences. They care about what works best to lock foes in place, deal damage efficiently and staying alive. In fact, I'd wager most PvP players across many games care mostly about PvP effectiveness. Themes, customization, and stuff not related to effectiveness is usually the realm of PvE players that like to look pretty on teams or RP certain concepts. PvP is a very different realm. Clout, skill, merit, adaptability, knowledge...those are the things that matter to PvPers. Overall, CoX isn't a particularly skill-based game though. Certainly not on the level of other twitch-based reaction type competitive gameplay like your arena shooters, battlegrounds or even MOBA and RTS type games. Some MMORPGs have some really good PvP but it's not really the realm of CoX at all.

The fatal flaw in your prospecting solution is...you can just make an alt red. Whatever benefits you impart to "staying red" are funneled into said alt if that benefit is desirable and then those that simply wanted the goodies go back to their blue mains. I feel the main misconception that people are making with regards to "population" is that people that are playing their heroes? They often have villains too. It's just they aren't playing those characters...or they are but they're doing "Day trading in Heroism". The other issue might be you're gunning to punish the latter villain players as well and for what reason?

There is. The entire population of the HC server is technically the population of City of Heroes and City of Villains. You can conflate specifics like activity levels or preference to population but in the grand scheme of things, there is no solid "population" since likely many players on hero side have played villains and vice versa and gravitate to specific activities due to preference but nothing is currently stopping them from playing whatever content is available. I see this type of thought process with stuff like fandoms as well. People assume that just because you are a fan of a game or a fan of StarWars, that now you're all some united community brought together in one whole of a group. It's a nice sentiment but it's just not real. It's a mental construct that ignores other aspects and choices. Similar here, there is no concrete "population" since there is no paywall or faction wall anymore. Those barriers, for better or for worse, have been destroyed so now the game is basically just a big themepark and to increase activity in one side of the part is synonymous with increasing its population...I mean, do you consider the Animal Kingdom section of Disney World as having a separate population from Magic Kingdom? Or is it more like traffic/activity? I suppose if you'd rather refuse to consider other perspectives, there is inconceivability in said perspective. Like I said, I understand the distinctions being made but it's on you to figure I'm just crazy to think it's a semantics thing. The underlying result of your desired change is synonymous with "how to decrease population on hero side" since I doubt you're seeking to bring in new people that aren't playing the game.

Okay. I see that prospect of increasing population as more of a semantics thing though. As a player that plays both sides, what does that say about such players? Are they not apart of the "population"? Or what if you just aren't playing a character that is villainous? If that is the basis for the discussion then I suppose the answer of just letting heroes do missions in red-side zones is the solution.

I always thought, if they have some means of tracking how often certain contact missions/SF/TF are completed, granting some sort of bonus to contacts that aren't completed as often.

You're too woke! If you want to think further, how many people do you see getting robbed in Rouge Isles vs Paragon City? As a civilian, which is safer place to live?

I suppose I'm just of the opinion that this really doesn't matter. I don't really see a need to "keep" players on one side or the other especially because of Null the Gull. Even if players come for the rewards and then swap back, it's not like they are gone for good. They're going to greedily come again to get more rewards.

I've only read half of the first page and I can already see the general consensus that really will sort of fly in the face of players that already like villain side plenty and doesn't really assist in helping make villain side "fun". The prospect of player agency and not wanting to be a lackey...while I can understand the underlying desire to make your villain a villain in your own way, I feel it really is ignoring the limitations of the game itself. If you want player agency, what better means of creating your own plans is there than creating your own missions in AE and then executing those missions? Maybe make it so you can "target" your AE missions which basically allows you to pick locations on the map to start the mission so it feels like you're planning out the crime and then literally going to the place to commit that crime...but overall, the story really doesn't have the framework to do what you want for *all* the content. It just cannot be done. The positive aspect of Villain side content is that most of your contacts and the story shared has flavor. Compared to hero side, most of the contacts, missions and arcs lack flavor but that is very different when you go red and look more into who your contacts are, when they show up again in other arcs, their goals, etc. Basically saying, what probably could be focused on is making sure you keep making flavorful contacts, dialog and stories. Trying to chase the specter of agency will likely just be a bar too high to reach. There's nothing wrong with being a lackey. There's nothing wrong with being double crossed. The main thing that matters is if you come out on top and that's usually what happens. Rather than being curtailed into specific story threads attempting to make you the "big bad", give me something to explore more of the spectrum of "evil". Put me under the boot of someone so I can revel in stabbing them in the back. Give me a sadistic master/mistress that wants to test the depth of my depravity. Let me be lost in my insane psychopathic bloodlust and a benefactor acting to direct me to do the most harm (or the least damage to themselves). The "drab" argument against villain side is typical. I won't argue opinion. I will say I think they should likely make night night-ier as on both sides (red and blue), night just looks like a washed out day time. If night looked like night, maybe we can keep the different sides distinct. Being run down, I also am indifferent to. Many of the zones in Paragon are also run down which contrast with the more brighter zones. I don't think red side needs a "pristine" or clean zone. It could use better representation of a "rich" zone which is somewhat reflected in St. Marshal but the rich portion is kind of tiny. If you're adding anything to the zones, add more to the busy city portion of St. Marshal and nothing more. Make it a beacon of gambling and debauchery in the (*ACTUAL*) darkness of night. I'm usually against adding more useless zones but if you devs want to flex with some zone/map building and you don't want to upset people that want St. Marshal the way it is, making a new zone for the "rich" zone wouldn't be horrible. Again, I just think all that's needed is that night should look like night and light up St. Marshal with them neon lights. Lastly, I think the main issue with villain side that most tend to agree on is Arachnos in missions. But also Longbow. There are other agencies like Wyvern but many of these "hero funded" vanilla factions not only end up having boring powers but also boring aesthetics. Adding more variety in missions would be a huge plus but also maybe some rouge/vigilante factions with some variety in their ranks.

Who else gets the Body Armor power? I think just adding +3 mag protection to Hold and Stun would make that power an attractive option for Blasters. No other option in the Epic Pools give mez protection without some stipulation like a crash or only affecting self.

Well if you build your character to minimize danger and/or maximize survival, don't you think that's the whole point of your build? To characters without heightened survivability through powers/IOs, the stacking Vengeance just might also increase the foe's lethality by increasing the time of engagement. Ultimately, that is going to determine the possible threat foes have to players: time of engagement. If the foe can't last long enough and withstand your volley of attacks, they will pose no threat. On the topic of Fake Nemesis, I think they should activate their PFF earlier and more often, perhaps with a half'ed duration. If you think about it, the most danger is likely going to be the first couple seconds when your team/yourself is likely going to use Buildup/Aim/high damage AoEs/AoE controls/AoE debuffs. In the case of my Stalkers, I can completely destroy them in about 3 attacks before they even get a chance to put up PFF. It would actually make them tougher if they put up their shield right at the start, the moment they are aggroed to try and avoid some of the AoE effects then bring it back up occasionally to screw with those winding up their big damage only to get it absorbed into the shield.

I disagree. I think such a strategy would be very effective, particularly on a team consisting of ranged support/attack users, you'd just need to coordinate with your team. Any kind of patch control that can be seen, avoided or have enemies be drawn into would make for relatively safe engagements. On the side of non-raged teams, the damage isn't that high so as long as that melee has KB protection, they can swoop in and melee the helpless foes while taking just a bit of fire DoT and then move out of it when the foes are done or you take too much damage. Kind of stinks for Fiery Aura who would wholly resist the damage but not be able to melee inside the patch as safely because of the KB. Overall, I think posters are viewing things through the lens of what can be accomplished now rather than from a more unbiased perspective. You have to consider what tactics would *work* rather than which tactics are *perfect*. Tactics that work will overall neutralize some of the danger but not all of it but that will look unworkable from the perspective of players wanting their tactics to neutralize danger with no downsize. Like having a Plant or Mind controller abusing confuse would still be a tactic but mainly only with melees that have inherent confuse protection which is going to be your Shield, Stone, SR, WP and Nin melee characters or if you run Tactics to give you some stacking protection to Confuse. On the side of this suggestion, it would be more useful to have teammates who have more knowledge about powers in general to help coordinate a team (like, I had to look up which armor sets had confuse protection which would help if your team wants to utilize confuse powers). This side of the suggestion, it's mainly a spam-fest. Just use what you got and it all stacks additively. I do feel certain concessions can be made with the affecting self. Damage auras shouldn't affect their user but they should affect allies. I think control auras in control sets could also have a stipulation to only affect foes with their control effects if you think about it in the context that powers within a closer range to the user, the user has more control over who they hit. This would affect powers like Arctic Air, Conductive Aura and Hot Feet. And expanding on that, having some kind of enhancement or power that lessens some of the friendly fire effects could be an option for those aiming for more team friendly builds. It wouldn't eliminate the danger but lessening it in some powers, going by the above stipulation that powers emanating from the user have higher control over who they affect. This would namely be aimed at PBAoE effects like Heart of Darkness, Cinders, Glacier, Flash, etc, having some kind of enhanceable chance of not affecting allies. If you think more on it, this would require planning every time you join up on a team. Basically chatting about your powers, who has what effects and different ways to maximize their use. Maybe you decide to use the confuse route and everyone who has Tactics run it for the protection...so long as the confusers aren't Dominators using domination, you should be fine and perfectly safe. Maybe you're rocking a Fire and Ice controller, combined they have controls that are easier to manage the friendly fire aspect since their controls are close-quarters (that's an aspect I don't ever hear people discussing, that some sets get roped in with PBAoE controls while others get safer options...well now a distinction between their utility can be made vs the ranged option being safer than the close option). Or focusing on just CCing trouble targets when team tactics are unsure. This post is mainly on the perspective of control sets on a friendly fire team. I think it makes teaming a lot more complex and involved considering your controls can have negative effects if not utilized carefully. You can still make standard teaming very safe and it might introduce tactics and power usage that emphasizes defense vs offense...like having Personal Force Field on your blasters to stay in the danger zones or coordinating Phase Shift so your debuffers, controllers and/or nukers bypass hitting teammates. It all sounds pretty interesting, actually and makes me think having some other new powers, like a short duration (like 8sec) short rech (like 35sec) phase shift power would be something more sought after. Such a power in the current game is pretty useless. More PFF type powers (Afterburner kind of acts like this now but I doubt people take and slot it for defense) would also be nice. This opens up a lot of options for desired effects.

I have run cave missions with Grounded. Your issues are mostly exaggerated.