Trickshooter

Old nukes would have been Self Destruct buttons

But you're kind of highlighting a sub issue here. Elec powersets can be potent... when you play them with a complimentary set. Would you be skipping Controls on your Elec Dominator if their secondary was Martial or Fire?

Well... kind of. Resistance and Damage debuffs can both be resisted, not just by level differences, but also by Damage Resistance the target has. If they have 30% Smashing/Lethal Damage Resistance, they will resist 30% of a Resistance or Damage debuff, but in that instance only for Smashing and Lethal damage. Say for example an enemy had 30% Resistance(Smashing), and you hit them with a 100 damage Smashing attack. That gets reduced to 70 damage by their resistances. Now, if you hit them with a -10% Resistance debuff first, that doesn't turn their 30% Resistance in to 20% Resistance the way a -10% ToHit debuff would reduce an enemies chance to hit from 50% down to 40%. The 30% Resistance resists 30% of the debuff, so that 10% -Resistance goes down to -7%, bringing their 30% Resistance(Smashing) down to 23%. Your 100 damage Smashing attack is now reduced to only 77 damage, which is still an increase in damage of 10% from the 70 damage it would have been without the debuff. Similarly with Damage debuffs, if an enemy had a 100 damage Smashing attack, and you hit them with a -10% Damage debuff first, that would reduce their damage down to 90 damage (assuming this is an NPC with no damage buffs). However, if they have 30% Resistance(Smashing), that reduces the Damage debuff for just Smashing damage down to -7%, reducing the damage of their attack down to only 93 damage. Because of this, Damage debuffs are least effective against enemies that heavily resist the damage type that makes up most of their attacks (so like... every Archvillain lol), and most effective against enemies that don't heavily resist the damage they cause (I dunno, maybe... Clockwork?). You're right that -Special isn't resisted, but only because -Special isn't a true debuff. It's more like you're giving your target enhancements with negative values. The only way for a target to resist that effect is if their powers are specifically flagged to ignore outside buffs/debuffs or if any effects in their powers are flagged to ignore enhancements, which neither of those is impossible to happen, and I'm not home to verify, but it's probably unlikely that many NPC powers are set up that way. EDIT: I guess I should've also mentioned that yes, I like the idea of an "Exhausted" effect from draining endurance. Just got distracted by a "The more you know..." moment!

Not to mention NPCs don't really know to run toggles until they encounter players, so you could easily exploit this and kill enemies very easily and very quickly with certain builds that can do a large amount of AoE damage before enemies get a chance to turn on these toggles.

Yes, Strength effects (which is what +/-"Special" is) do affect other Strength effects. However, flags can be set to prevent it and I could've sworn this was already fixed, with Power Build Up from Power Mastery being the last one that was originally missed?

Got a chance to play some tonight, but didn't team so I can only comment on the 3 powers that can be used solo. Shock: Feels like it's missing something, probably because the Endurance Drain doesn't feel like it's adding much. The -Recovery helps, especially with a Discharge follow-up, although I would frequently use it on an enemy and 1-2 seconds after applying it, I could see them recover some Endurance. I don't know if that's just a server timing thing, but it was kind of a lengthy delay. Discharge: I can see the potential of the Endurance drain on this power, however it's absolutely useless without -Recovery. With 5 stacks of Static I could get even con enemies down to about 40% endurance left, I think, and that's while not slotted for EndMod, but even on lower con enemies who I could drain in one application, it was as if I did nothing. They immediately recover endurance and attack as if nothing happened. Faraday Cage: I understand the goal was for something different, however I don't think it really works for the way people play. I tried to preemptively use it before fights, but it was a bit frustrating that if I tried to leave, and was already under the effects of a mezz, I would end up mezzed and vulnerable just out of reach of the bubble. It feels like that would also be a bit annoying for an ally. If they get mezzed outside of it, I have to wait for it to recharge and then resummon it by them to free them. Feels a bit inconvenient. If the goal is to keep this a location AoE, I like the idea of making it work as a quick-recharging toggle like Lifegiving Spores.

I spot checked some NPC powers, and the lowest endurance costs for any of their attacks was around 4-7 endurance. It looks like the newer NPC groups end costs are very similar to players, so like scale 1 damage is about 5.2 endurance, but the legacy NPC groups use older values, so typically the lowest for them is 7 endurance for scale 1 damage. But again, that's just spot checking. I think what's more likely is that NPC AI makes them attack more conservatively, rather than us as players who try to maintain attack chains. So like they run out of endurance, but without -Recovery as well, they usually only lose about 1-2 attacks they would have done before they have enough endurance back to continue attacking.

Except that they can continue to run while the NPC has no endurance. Edit: sniped twice!

AFAIK NPCs don't have real toggles. They have long duration clicks that cancel when mezzed to give the illusion of detoggling.

😮 Cool! I asked if that was possible after Jimmy's response to the initial feedback, so it's neat to see it was.

This made me chuckle because Disrupt used to be Repulse... an AoE knockback toggle lol Just the worst power, but so funny.

You wouldn't need the damage to prevent stacking. The Sleep could actually be flagged to not stack. I know because PGA used to prevent stacking of it's Sleep, so as soon as you activated it again, the previous Sleep would immediately end.

This is something I was concerned about seeing the Ally +Special. I expect some bug reports from people saying that they don't work on specific powers, not realizing that those powers have always been excluded from outside buffs/debuffs, it was just difficult to notice on the ATs that didn't have access to +Special effects before.

What power's Defense were you trying to buff? Is it possible it's a power that it's flagged to ignore outside buffs/debuffs?

These are some buffs I have for Sonic Resonance in my Big Spreadsheet of Support Set Buffs: 1) Similar to Siphon Power, add an AoE +Resistance centered on the caster after a successful hit. I had 3%(D)/2.25%(CCM) since it was a a team buff, but I could see making it also give maybe an unenhanceable 10%(D)/7.5%(CCM) to the caster only, too. 2) Add Resistance(Regeneration Debuff, Defense Debuff) to Sonic Barrier, since these debuffs are associated with the damage types this power gives resistance too. If you're resisting some of the damage, realistically you should be resisting some of the effects. 3) Add Resistance(ToHit Debuff, Slow, RechargeSlow) and Mag 2 Knockback protection to Sonic Haven. Same reasoning as above. 4) Add a 12.5%(D)/10%(CC)/7.5%(M) ToHit debuff to Disruption Field. This way it can accept sets and actually does something to warrant it's expensive endurance cost. 5) To compensate for the -ToHit now in Disruption Field, reduce the -ToHit and -Defense in Liquefy to -31.25% for Defenders (down from 35.7%), Corruptor and Controller versions already currently do too little -ToHit and -Defense compared to Defenders (based on modifiers), so they can stay at their current value of -25%. I'd also consider removing the Hold, increasing the chance for Knockback up to a 5% chance (up from 3%), and lowering the recharge to 180s. Maybe 240s if 180s turned out to be too good.

That's the thing about Endurance Drain. If you can't drain all endurance, the effect is pretty much wasted most of the time. With most other effects, you can quantify how much of an effect it will have in combat. Even a 1% ToHit debuff, on average, will reduce the number of hits you take by 2%. But taking an enemy from 100 endurance to 40 endurance? That does absolutely nothing unless they had this ultra powerful attack that costs 41 endurance or more. In order for this set to really succeed at making Endurance Drain part of it's kit, I think it needs to do more of it, and it needs more sources of -Recovery. Off the top of my head, I would suggest: 1) Make Shock a cone to spread -Recovery around more efficiently. 2) Make Defibrillate a PBAoE that can be used without targeting a fallen ally. For any allies in range (including the caster!), both dead or alive, a pseudopet is created at their feet that radiate an AoE Endurance Drain and -Recovery on nearby foes. Fallen allies are revived with more health/endurance based on the stacks of Static, while living allies (again, including the caster) receive Endurance and/or Recovery based on the stacks of Static. 3) Change Energizing Chain to a foe-targeted, Endurance Draining chain + some other debuff, maybe a -Special since that also seems to be a theme of this set.

Dark Armor has a built in 20% endurance cost reduction on it's toggles. Sounds like you might just be running too many at once, or using Dark Regeneration too frequently without any EndRedux enhancements in it.

But I love lemons! 😁 In all seriousness, though, I have spent too many hours since 2005 thinking about Trick Arrow, and sometimes people make some cool sounding suggestions on how to fix it off the top of their head, and I try to rein in the expectations because sometimes it's not as easy as people think it will be, and not always a very practical solution. People don't need to agree with my own ideas, but I want them to at least get more information to help them make their own suggestions better. I think we're arguing about two different things here. I wasn't trying to just state that walking up to a Sleeping enemy will cause aggro when they wake up. Because, yeah, duh. Maybe I just misread what you meant by "Sleep (which does not inherently draw aggro or create Threat)". I think what you were saying was that a sleeping enemy is an enemy that can't be attacking you. What I thought you were saying was that Sleep does not notify mobs, and I just wanted to be clear that that is not tied to Sleep, or any effect in the game, but is an individual flag on every power, and Mass Hypnosis is the only Sleep that has it. There are other Sleep powers that don't cause damage, but enemies will aggro when they wake up or if you miss (like Spore Burst or Salt Crystals). Well, that is one part of what makes it better for them, yes. But there's also the fact that controls effects in the set last longer for Controllers. There's also the fact that because of an old bug, and the old devs decision not to completely fix it, Controllers share Slow mods with Defenders. Not to mention everyone shares the Oil Slick Arrow pet! So when I say "inherently better for Controllers", what I mean is... Trick Arrow as a set was designed to defend a team offensively through -Resistance, -Defense and OSA, and defensively through Slows, Controls and -Damage from PGA. Offensively, Controllers are weaker with the -Resistance and -Defense, but they get to use OSA with the same potency as ATs that are specifically designed to do more damage AND they can leverage it better with their controls. Defensively, Controllers completely win because their controls are longer, they stack with their primary, their slows are Defender strength, and while the -Damage from PGA is better for Defenders, Controllers can once again better leverage the effect with their primaries. And this is just against Defenders. Controller and Corruptor secondaries are intended to perform similarly, but Trick Arrow really suffers as a secondary for Corruptors (and Masterminds) because it wasn't build with them in mind. The only parts of Trick Arrow that perform better on Corruptors than Controllers is the DoT of Acid Arrow and the bonus damage of EMP Arrow. Meanwhile, Controllers perform equal or better with every other effect. And because of the original design of Trick Arrow relying on Controls and Slows so much, Corruptor and Mastermind TA are practically the same, even though MM secondaries are intended to be weaker than Corruptor secondaries. The only aspects of Corruptor TA that are better than Mastermind TA (besides, again, the DoT of Acid Arrow and bonus damage of EMP Arrow) is the -ToHit of Flash Arrow (by a whopping 1.25%), -Damage of PGA, and the -Defense of Acid arrow. Mastermind EMP Arrow even drains more endurance than the Corruptor version! Nearly every aspect of the set works better for Controllers. Its weaknesses affect them less because its effects work better with their primaries. So when someone says "let's buff this by adding a Control effect," what they're typically suggesting will improve the set, yes, but it will improve it much more for Controllers who typically don't need the help and whose performance with the change will likely make it falsely appear that the set is all better now, which is kind of what prevented the set getting the work it needed for the other 3 ATs that had it for years. Please don't read any of this with anger. I'm not mad or trying to argue.

Only had enough time to jump on and check out the visuals tonight. I guess it's basically what I was expecting, but maybe a little too similar to Electrical Blast. Is there any way to improve the electrical effects to differentiate it more? Maybe additional particle effects or using the air-sizzling glow of the Cabal electrical blasts instead? Also, wow, Faraday Cage is very distracting. Can the movements of the sphere be slowed down at all?

Appreciate the sentiment, and I'm not saying the name isn't clever, but it doesn't fit with how powersets in the game are named. It would make a good character name or a good power name, but not a powerset name. The powerset names are pretty straightforward and read like how they'd be listed in the Abilities section of a character file. Soandso's power is Electrical Blasts. Whatshisname's power is Electricity Control. Whatsherface's power is Shock Therapy...?

I think Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift are the only ally +Damage powers that stack (and probably because their entire effects are pet based), so Empowering Circuit is not the odd power for not stacking.

These are my initial thoughts just from the patch notes. I will have more once I actually get to play the set. I said it in the other thread, but Amp Up's icon seems a little underwhelming to me. I know that it's the icon for nearly all Power Boost-effect powers, but every time I see it I think of mez resistance. I think it would look much more impressive as a tier 9 with the multi-buff icon of Power Build Up. I feel like Discharge is missing -Recovery to make it a potent debuff, that way enemies will continue to drain themselves as they attack with their weakened damage potential. Faraday Cage being a location-based team Mez Resist seems so weird. I'll have to play around with it, but my initial feeling is that it should be a short duration/long recharge PBAoE click or a toggle (to reduce the number of click powers in the set). Shouldn't Insulating Circuit use the Absorb icon, like Wild Bastion/Spirit Ward/Ablative Carapace? The current icon is associated with Smashing/Lethal Resistance. Insulating Circuit and Energizing Circuit seem a bit limited in their uses. Insulating Circuit seems like a good place to maybe add Slow resistance, and Energizing Circuit could use some +Recovery. Given how much of this set requires teammates (tied with Empathy at 6 powers), I think it would be a nice perk for the caster if building up and maintaining Static also provided +5% Recharge or EnduranceDiscount.

Is it possible for the jump to prioritize either players OR pets, depending on the initial target selected?

That's cool, but also sounds more like a power that could be in the set, rather than the set name. I also like @Vanden's suggestion to keep at least "Elec" in the name.

I agree. The name is punny, and is a clever way to describe the theme of the set (electric themed support), but that's not how the other sets are named. They're named mostly straightforward. Shock Therapy fits more in the naming convention of a power within an electric themed support set.