ZacKing

Hoping someone from HC can chime in on this or maybe one of the GMs can ask around and post a definitive answer here. There seems to be a lot of confusion every week during the weekly Saturday Night Synapse league over on Torchbearer where arguments start over whether or not people bringing a Kronos Titan is a good or bad thing. Some people seem to think a solitary Kronos Titan "causes significant lag" and/or causes the Babbages to scatter and run off from the main pile where they're being herded to in Skyway. Others think its fun to bring them into the mix as its a fun to fight different GMs at the same time and a quick way to grab the Master of Olympus badge. Plus its more merits and monstrous aethers for everyone to enjoy. So can anyone from the HC team confirm whether or not the Kronos (or GMs in general) is or is not a "cause" of lag? Or is the lag which some experience more due to the 20+ Babbages herded together in one spot spawning Sprockets with at least 3 or 4 full leagues of players on the map firing off every power they have including Incarnate pets/shields/AoEs in a confined area? Are there GMs that are more or less "problematic"? I can't speak for everyone, however for me personally, I can get quite a lot of lag whether there's a Kronos or not. There have been times where teams have coordinated at least 20 Kronos Titan spawns on the hill in Talos and there wasn't any significant lag. I've also seen Babbages run off from the main pile regularly when there's not a Kronos Titan in sight. From what I can tell, they run off when there aren't enough taunters in the main pile or MM pets in the periphery of the pile start pulling aggro, or the random player just wanting to tag a Babbage for fun pulls it off the pile. I admit I don't know for sure if the Kronos is indeed a factor or not, so I wanted to ask in the hopes of preventing any future confusion and argument. Lastly, I'd like to give a huge shout out and big thank you to @Kalikamatafor graciously hosting this very fun event every week. Your efforts don't go unnoticed and are appreciated by a whole lot of us. Thank you.

I agree with most of what you said here with the exception of the highlighted part. I honestly don't see the need to have everyone stand around having stuff teleported to them to nuke it. I personally don't think that's fun at all, but if you do then more power to you. Play how you like. Just seems like a very lazy way to play where people can't even be arsed to press some keys to move around. It reminds me of the whole Jellyfish ship debate over in STO. Ever since Cryptic released that ship, AFKing in TFOs skyrocketed because people use that ship to just park and go AFK with the ship console doing the bare minimum damage to avoid the auto AFK penalty. It's a lazy way to play if you ask me and I don't get the enjoyment of doing that, but that's just opinion. Again, play how you like.

Correct. As several people already mentioned here, communication is key. When/where/how to best utilize the strengths and abilities and skill of the team is found through communication. If one person is doing something that impacts another, talk to each other and find a compromise. I think that's the gist of this thread, at least to me.

It's not hard to pinpoint at all. People interested in badging will chase them. Those who aren't interested in badges won't. Again, badge count really doesn't mean anything. You're admitting as much in your own post. You're arguing that looking at badges is an indicator of something by saying that badge count doesn't mean anything. Something doesn't add it up there. How you define "invested" is going to be different than me or the next person. I have alt characters that I've purpose built to use for various level TFs. I'll run them a couple of times a week, but will spend the bulk of my time on "main" characters. I definitely don't have anywhere near the same amount of badges on them that I do on main characters. That doesn't mean I'm neglecting those alts and I'm not invested in them. Far from it. I've invested quite a bit of time and resources into purpose building them. No maybes about it. It's rude to prejudge people based on a badge count. If you're concerned about "bad" players wasting your time, then toss the good players you run into a friend request and team up with them. Socialize and make friends. Problem solved. You're not forced into PUGing anything at all. I've read enough posts here over the years and run into enough elitists in game that I understand perfectly why quite a lot of people who think anyone who doesn't level the "correct/right/traditional" way are cynical of others who don't play the way they they believe is proper. Thank you for adding this part. It's a clear example that shows badge count doesn't mean anything and like others have said, there are "vets" out there with loads of badges that don't know what they're doing.

Well yeah, that's true. It's also a dopamine hit to be on a melee character fighting a large mob. When someone uses Fold Space to pull them away from you, that's where the fun gets taken away.

Badge count doesn't mean much, if anything at all. I know sometimes I like to get into the 40s first before I start running all the TFs for the accolade, so it's entirely possible to be higher level with no TF badges. I also don't actively get explore badges on every character either. Absolutely true.

Haha. I guess we're not getting any younger!

Please don't take this the wrong way as it isn't directed at you personally, but has the game and player base gotten to the point where we can't be arsed to even move anymore? Mobs have to be teleported to us and insta-nuke them in 1 hit? I just can't see the enjoyment there.

Could be. If that's the case and depending on the team, the team leader should speak up and say something if the person lone-wolfing it is adversely impacting the rest of the team. You're basically making my point here. At higher levels some people breaking off on their own are doing it because the content isn't challenging enough for a full group of 8. Mobs are getting insta-vaped by the group, so there's no meat left on the bone. ^ This exactly.

So your answer to being "trolled" is to be a troll yourself based on your own definition... Again, what's any of this got to do with The Thunderbolts*?

I don't mind it so long as it isn't adversely impacting the rest of the team. I completely understand why people do it, especially after reading through the thread on Fold Space etiquette. It seems like some can't grasp that others like fighting stuff, so grouping up in a big ball and nuking mobs isn't really fun for them. I totally get why people want to go off on their own.

What's any of this have to do with The Thunderbolts*? A GM gave you your answer, and just as @Luminara said, the original is still available for anyone to see.

If that's what works for you and you have fun playing that way, more power to you. Everyone standing around teleporting mobs into a circle to just AoE/nuke them sounds incredibly boring to me.

Yeah, it's the player, but the GMs can't be everywhere. From the sound of it, it doesn't seem like changing the CoC is going to do much either. I'm inclined to agree I think it might be time to look at how Fold Space is being abused by the select few and make some changes. Ok sure! Let's all AFK the events and not bother playing at all! 😂 They're definitely out there. We see it every week on the SNS over on Torchbearer. Tanks that can't hold aggro to save their lives trying to corral Babbages.

Those comments sum things up rather nicely. Fold Space itself isn't the problem, it's people using it badly and/or not communicating that they're using it that is the problem. My take is I don't think it's necessary on ToT Leagues for the exact reasons already covered in this thread. I've seen it a few times myself where players in a League are using it and other players ask them to stop. Most of the time they're nice about it and stop using Fold Space since it really isn't necessary with a full league pounding stuff. There are a few people though who I thought were just complete assholes about it and they got added to my ignore list for how rude they were to others. This part is the important piece I think - Think of it like being on a playground playing with your toys and someone else steals them from you or you're out at a restaurant about to dig into your meal and someone comes and takes your plate away. You often see people complaining about others venturing off on their own when on a team to fight mobs ahead of where the main group is. This is why people do that. They want to have fun fighting stuff. If others are going to take that enjoyment away from them, purposefully or not, it's taking the fun away from others. Best thing is to be courteous to others. ToTing really doesn't need a "murder box" where mobs from all around need to be teleported to. There's enough people on the leagues to kill stuff quickly and efficiently. One thing to keep in mind, there's a reason powers like Group Fly and Teleporting have prompts and/or Null to disable their use on you.

No, it really isn't a thing. This server will go merrily on whether any of us are here or not. HC is not a commercial business and isn't reliant upon a paying customer base to keep the lights on. Were all of us to disappear tomorrow and donations dry up, HC could go back to running a single server for them and their friends and family just as they did before. I'm not saying that to be critical of them or anything, it's just a simple fact. Oh come on. "Coordinating instructions"?? Have you actually joined any of the regularly formed leagues like the SNS over on Torch or MSRs and such on Excel and Everlasting? These "instructions" are keybinds and macros that were made ages ago. If you want to claim that pushing a key is "hard work", feel free but its a gross exaggeration. My time is tangible to me. I didn't have to stand around wasting my time waiting for someone else to do it. This exactly. You'd be surprised how many people leading ToT leagues are complaining about how the League management tools work.

I gave the first two episodes a try and to be honest, I fell asleep I was so bored.

Best reason for why this idea isn't needed! Well put.

That's a good point.

What exactly is the hardship in this "extra effort" that was put in? Chatting in LFG and inviting people? Again, the reward is you as the team leader got to run the content you wanted to run when you wanted to. You didn't have to stand around waiting for someone else to start it. If I need a Citadel TF to complete my TF Commander accolade and I don't feel like waiting around, I'll form a team and run it and get it over with when I want to. That's the tangible reward to me. You keep repeating this and it's not going to make it true no matter how many times you repeat it. You are getting something tangible for leading a team already.

Correct. You don't know and you'll never know. There can be any number of reasons why someone would give a 1 star rating. You're assuming the current system is somehow broken or inadequate. It isn't. There's nothing wrong with the system we have now. Forming and leading teams already have tangible rewards that many have already addressed in the threads on this topic. People who like leading teams can do so and get the rewards for leading them. They're awarded XP, inf, merits and/or special salvage from completing the content, not to mention badges. As many have already explained in these threads, the reward is getting to run the content you want when you want and not having to wait around for someone else to start it. Team leads currently do get something though. You don't seem to want to acknowledge that. Since what you're suggesting could be easily gamed and/or used to grief others, a major downside is that it's wasted a lot of volunteer development time on an overly complicated system. Rating systems are highly subjective. As you yourself pointed out earlier, you don't know what other people are thinking. Maybe someone didn't like the way the team lead played or led the TF. Maybe they didn't like the team leads color scheme on their costume. Maybe someone didn't like something a team lead said or didn't say. Or yes, people can just be complete dicks and 1 star everyone because they can. No we shouldn't.

What happens when a player successfully leads a team through a TF and the rest of the team decides to be jerks and 1 star the leader just because they can? Like others have already and continue to point out in these threads, this stuff is easily gamed and can easily be used to grief others.

I think the idea of showing some appreciation toward people who lead teams is a nice idea, but I don't see this as necessary for a couple of reasons. First, it's sort of assuming that everyone who forms and leads a team does so competently and in a friendly, sociable way. I don't think people who don't know how to lead teams or leagues should get rewarded for incompetence. I'd also hate to see this lead to people fighting over who's team they should join because others are looking for more rewards for themselves by sticking it to others trying to lead teams. Second, there's already badges anyone can earn by side kicking lower level people, so there's already some incentives there for leading teams. Lastly, if people really want to thank their team leader, they can always gift them some inf or recipe drop or whatever if they really feel the need to. Beyond that, a simple "thank you!" goes a long way.

I had one on live and really enjoyed playing it. I just haven't gotten around to remaking all of my characters from back in the day yet. 😁 Sword and board was always a strong combo.

I don't think that Broadsword is all that bad. I had a SD/BS Tank on live that was really quite fun to play and tough as anything. I think what makes it seem weak is because it's damage is so heavily resisted by just about everything. Now I want to roll a SD/BS tank 😂