Maelwys

AFAIK the only place it's been ventured MMs dominate is levelless Pylon fights (particularly Demons/Marine MMs) - although Illusion/ Controllers aren't far behind. Nukes are a whole 'nother issue. IIRC they were originally supposed to be balanced out by endurance cost and squishiness... hence why Blasters getting both Crashless Nukes and Sustains was a tad contentious. But changing them now would be asking for trouble - could you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth if they got "adaptive recharge"?

This. To be fair though, the changes have been moving pretty fast (in fact the last few updates haven't even had proper patch notes yet!) so it's very understandable to miss stuff. FWIW I've posted a quick color coded summary of how (AFAIK) the currently proposed changes for MMs on Open Beta actually compare to Live here: ("levelless" foes like GMs notwithstanding!)

Sure. And I certainly appreciate that the T1 and T2's damage output has plummeted against levelless foes like GMs. However realistically unless the GM in question has +defence buffs; worst-case you'll be having to slot +39.71% acc in your T1 henchmen (with Supremacy but no Tactics) instead of +11.76% to cap your Hit Rate against them. And you can always email yourself Team Insights. Or run Tactics. Let alone using the usual anti-GM stuff like multiple Acid Mortars. ...but I still don't understand how any of that translates to a "ToHit nerf kicking in at level 22"...?? 😕 (although it IS past midnight here and I'm at least two coffees under par!) 😪 Because on Live there's a base ToHit decrease (due to the henchmen beginning to spawn lower-level) and the devs wanted to replicate that same decrease on Test; in order to keep things as similar as possible. Although that decrease kicks in at levels 6 (T1s) 18 (T1s) and 24 (T2s) rather than at level 22. And FWIW, I'm (still!) annoyed that they made the pets even-level and then tweaked the ToHits back down again... but I at least understand the rationale behind it - due to the backlash over the Tanker buffs/nerfs the devs are now being incredibly cautious about tweaking AT performance; so they're intentionally taking these MM changes very slowly one step at a time. "Buffing Mastermind Henchmen Hit Rate" is 100% on their radar, but it simply isn't on the cards this patch.

BaseHitRates for T3/T2/T1: +0 0.75 0.67 0.58 +1 0.65 0.57 0.48 +2 0.56 0.48 0.39 +3 0.48 0.4 0.31 +4 0.39 0.31 0.22 +5 0.3 0.22 0.13 That means from Lv1-Lv5 (when you've got one of them) the T1s are on 0.58+0.17=0.75 ("even level") And from Lv6-Lv17 (whenever you've got two of them) the T1s are on 0.58+0.9=0.67 ("-1 level") And from Lv1-Lv23 (whenever you've just one of them) the T2s are on 0.67+0.8=0.75 ("even level") In other words, everything is essentially getting adjusted to be exactly the same as it is right now on live. ?? 😕

FWIW, the current state of play of MMs on Open Beta; compared to Live is: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Accuracy/ToHit: Additional +Acc needed in each pet tier to achieve capped (95%) Hit Rates vs +0 Mob: (LIVE) (TEST) vs +0 Mob: (LIVE) (TEST) (no Supremacy) 26.67% 26.67% (T3) (Supremacy) 11.76% 11.76% 46.15% 41.79% (T2) 26.67% 23.38% 69.64% 63.79% (T1) 43.94% 39.71% vs +1 Mob: vs +1 Mob: (no Supremacy) 46.15% 46.15% (T3) (Supremacy) 26.67% 26.67% 69.64% 66.67% (T2) 43.94% 41.79% 97.92% 97.92% (T1) 63.79% 63.79% vs +2 Mob: vs +2 Mob: (no Supremacy) 69.64% 69.64% (T3) (Supremacy) 43.94% 43.94% 97.92% 97.92% (T2) 63.79% 63.79% 143.59% 143.59% (T1) 93.88% 93.88% vs +3 Mob: vs +3 Mob: (no Supremacy) 97.92% 97.92% (T3) (Supremacy) 63.79% 63.79% 143.59% 137.50% (T2) 93.88% 90.00% 216.67% 206.45% (T1) 137.50% 131.71% vs +4 Mob: vs +4 Mob: (no Supremacy) 143.59% 143.59% (T3) (Supremacy) 93.88% 93.88% 216.67% 206.45% (T2) 137.50% 131.71% 375.00% 331.82% (T1) 216.67% 196.88% vs +5 Mob: vs +5 Mob: (no Supremacy) 216.67% 216.67% (T3) (Supremacy) 137.50% 137.50% 375.00% 331.82% (T2) 216.67% 196.88% 1087.50% 630.77% (T1) 427.78% 313.04% - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Damage Output: T1 (Live) T2 (Live) T3 (Live) T1 (Test) T2 (Test) T3 (Test) Diff (T1) Diff (T2) Diff (T3) Adjusted Diff +0 0.8 0.9 1 0.6 0.81 1 -25% -10% 0% -17.65% +1 0.65 0.8 0.9 0.5395 0.728 0.9 -17% -9% 0% -11.96% +2 0.48 0.65 0.8 0.48 0.65 0.8 0% 0% 0% 0.00% +3 0.3 0.48 0.65 0.39 0.528 0.65 30% 10% 0% 12.73% +4 0.15 0.3 0.48 0.288 0.39 0.48 92% 30% 0% 27.97% +5 0.08 0.15 0.3 0.18 0.243 0.3 125% 62% 0% 36.65% (Note: "Adjusted difference" assumes each henchmen dealt identical damage before purple patch. Think: "Realistically what's my worst case scenario here?") - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Damage Taken: Diff (T1) Diff (T2) Diff (T3) Adjusted Diff +0 -18.03% -9.91% 0.00% -14.67% +1 -16.54% -9.02% 0.00% -13.21% +2 -15.28% -8.27% 0.00% -12.02% +3 -14.19% -7.64% 0.00% -11.03% +4 -13.25% -7.10% 0.00% -10.19% +5 -12.43% -6.63% 0.00% -9.46% (Note: "Adjusted difference" here ignores the fact that even-level T1/T2 henchmen will get hit less often. So once again, it'll be better than this in practice!) Therefore Accuracy has improved across the board (although the required enhancement in the T1 henchmen is still well beyond what is feasible at +3 and above!) However Damage Output is more complicated: +2 is the "break-even" spot; with slightly less damage vs +1 mobs; and slightly more damage vs +3 mobs. Damage Taken has however improved across the board (taking much less damage than before vs +0s, and still a decent chunk less than before vs +5s) The picture might be bleakest if you're fighting +0 mobs; but even there pets are (at worst!) dealing ~18% less damage whilst being (at worst!) ~15% more survivable. Given that set bonuses (especially KB protection!) are inheriting to pets too, IMO it's actually a net positive... at least until you consider "levelless" foes like GMs. The devs have stated that this patch is about establishing a new "even-level-pets baseline" for Masterminds via minimal nerfs/buffs rather than about addressing/resolving Mastermind performance and/or Quality-of-Life issues (such as T1/T2 Hit Rate issues and pet mobility). And the above numbers seem to back that up. It might help to think of this round of changes as effectively just "setting the scene"... and to expect bigger performance and QOL tweaks in other follow-up patches. (Hokes around for some publicly-accessible quotes...) "major buffs beyond these are likely to come in a follow-up Panel release." "Just you wait till you see the panel 2 content... you going to lose it. Not sure if out of hate or happiness, maybe both, but the change count alone is likely to be intimidating, and you might understand why we didn't toss everything out at once." "Panel 2 is after the holidays." 🙊 🤐 ⏲️

The main thing I'm changing is ensuring that there is at least one copy of the 3x Gladiator's Armor KB Protection set bonus in each of my builds. Because Henchmen gaining passive KB protection is a big thing. Many of my MMs had multiple copies of the Blessing of the Zephyr KB Protection IO, but as that's not a true Set Bonus it's not inheriting to henchmen and whilst the Devs have mentioned potentially reworking global IO effects, that has wider repercussions and there's currently no indication that it'll happen any time soon. On a few of my builds I'm also tweaking accuracy upwards, in order to try to get the T3 and T2 henchmen at the point where they're capping their hit rate vs +4 foes with minimal tradeoffs. But getting the T1 henchmen to that point is currently a losing battle (you need Supremacy, Tactics, ED capped accuracy in the pet PLUS at least +50 Global Accuracy from set bonuses) so I'm holding out for a buff (which currently there's no firm confirmation on, but I know that multiple Devs are very aware of the issue!) I'm definitely going to have to revisit ATO slotting in the future whenever they decide exactly what's happening there. And I wouldn't be surprised if the set bonus inheritance figure gets tweaked again (e.g. from 40% to 50%) post-Christmas once the Devs can face adjusting the figure on endless powers again. Again though, these are suspicions rather than anything confirmed. There are lots of changes in the short-term pipeline (and not just for MMs!) including plenty of stuff which the Devs have only hinted at and are keeping firmly under wraps, even from those on Closed Beta. So the biggest advice I can give is to keep a few respecs available.

As others have mentioned, the additional incoming damage is comparatively small. The survivability threshold for AFK-Farming survivability is rising from ~35HP/Sec to (35/1.33*1.44) = ~38HP/Sec and my AFK-Farming Brutes are well over that already. The trick is gaining enough Accuracy/ToHit to cap your hit rate against +4s instead of +3s (assuming you're Level 50+1 fighting level 55s) whilst maintaining optimal DPS. In short; yes it's doable. Although I'd advise on not finalizing your Farming Build tweaks until after the next patch hits. As CPH put it: "Just you wait till you see the panel 2 content... you going to lose it."

As the kids say, "skill issue". Possibly a knowledge thing too. Some new players just plain don't realise that slotting Single Origin Enhancements (especially Accuracy, Damage and EndRed) is a very good idea - at least before common IOs start drawing level with + outpacing them circa levels 25-30. Or insist on setting their difficulty sliders to maximum when it's blatantly obvious that they can't yet handle it.

Whilst I'd like this too... you can at least workaround the headache a bit by selecting a currently-alive pet which is close to the one that's locked in a "spawning" animation; and (RE)TRIGGER THE UPGRADES ON IT INSTEAD. The upgrades are AoEs; and as soon as the new henchmen appear in your pet list they are *buffable*; just not *targetable*.

In the main patch notes, there's a "General Adjustments" section right above the "Masterminds" section which has a clarification in the third bullet point Set Bonuses Standard Set Bonuses should now last for the full duration of most summoned pseudopets. 40% of your Standard Set Bonuses now applies to henchmen that are within range of Supremacy. Standard Set Bonuses are those granted by multiple enhancements of a set.

This is getting pretty deep into "Dev-team terminology" versus "player terminology"... however if we're getting technical-technical: Things like the LotG +7.5% Recharge IO are listed as a "Global" in lots of places; like https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Set_Enhancements_with_Special_Effects 'Global' Bonuses are (somewhat confusingly) displayed under the "set bonus" heading on your character info's "Powers" tab (and stored within "set_bonus.set_bonus.X") But they're not visible here --> Which is what matters for this patch. It's only these numbered "Set Bonuses" that are (currently) inheriting to henchmen. Global bonuses may well follow after the Devs are happy with the inheritance and have sufficient time to devote to poking at half a Smithsonian's worth of additional records.

"All the incarnates in the build are required." Are you running Ageless Destiny? If so, then you shouldn't be having any endurance issues since that gives you sky-high recovery and refills your blue bar every 120s. That said... Tankers were hit rather harshly in i28p2 (see here for details) and as AA noted the builds linked at the start of this thread may not be the best any longer. There're some decent alternative Active Farming melee options here and here and here.

Same TBH. I've never bothered with a travel power on my Crabbermind, their build is just too tight power-selection-wise. I do currently take a non-START travel power (Mighty Leap) on their alternate Bane Soldier build... but I'm planning to do away with even that shortly (the changes on Open Beta will soon see them fighting +4 'Level 55' mobs so I'll need to raise their ToHit a bit by swapping something for TT: Leadership... and the travel power is by far the least vital!)

Note Powerhouse's clarification in the OP: "A note about Incarnate content: while on Incarnate Trials or Dark Astoria, henchmen incarnate procs like Hybrid or Interface ones should behave the same as they do now live. If you do not see this, please report it as it's a bug."

I must be in the minority... rather than keep dozens of racks of old IOs in my SG base, I just keep 5 1/2 racks permanently full of boosters (one's half full of Catalysts) so that each new alt can go wild. IME it's easy enough to restock either via merits or the AH (as long as you're not using "buy it now" prices!)

Column A tend to find KB disruptive of their playstyle. Column B tend to find it immersive and fun, apparently. Personally I'm firmly in Column A... partly because there are too many "bad" KB users around... and partly because most of the large AoE effects that inflict knockback are a less-than-100% chance; so it inevitably causes some mob scatter and I find the inconsistencies annoying. Saying to melee toons "just tap the follow key" inevitably degrades into arguments about "lost DPS" and ultimately still involves another player having to make adjustments to their playstyle to accommodate the KB'er; so it's not a panacea unfortunately. I think its fair to say that whenever one person's playstyle or power choices starts causing issues for someone else on the same team- ultimately one of them will have to make a behavioural compromise or be kicked. And some people (on both sides of this very thorny issue) really hate compromising. Meh. The real headache for me is the "enhancement tax" that I personally have to make if I wish to convert more than one of my powers from KB>KD. Overwhelming Force at least also buffs damage aspect a little, but it's unique. So subsequent abilities effectively lose an entire slot per power to a Sudden Acceleration KB>KD IO.

IIRC that's pretty much how it works currently for regular +Knockback enhancements. They're incredibly unpopular; but they're one of the few ways to increase the magnitude of an effect rather than its duration. (if you enhance a Knockdown power enough that its Magnitude rises above 1.0-ish it'll turn into Knockback...)

This was the last one I think? Or at least the last one that reached critical mass. (I had to buy a new cape after all the flames ruined it...) 🧯

Raising it to 50% would also help with Knockdown protection. Currently one instance of 3x Gladiators Armor translates to henchmen getting 0.4*3 = Mag 1.2 protection vs KB. so vs +4s your pets would be protected against 1.2/1.44 = Mag 0.83333 KB and below. so vs +3s your pets would be protected against 1.2/1.33 = Mag 0.90226 KB and below. so vs +2s your pets would be protected against 1.2/1.22 = Mag 0.98361 KB and below. so vs +1s your pets would be protected against 1.2/1.11 = Mag 1.08108 KB and below. If the set bonus inheritance rate was raised to 50%, that'd mean henchmen would instead be getting 0.5*3= Mag 1.5 protection vs KB per set of Gladiator's Armor. so vs +4s your pets would be protected against 1.5/1.44 = Mag 1.04167 KB and below. so vs +3s your pets would be protected against 1.5/1.33 = Mag 1.12782 KB and below. so vs +2s your pets would be protected against 1.5/1.22 = Mag 1.22951 KB and below. so vs +1s your pets would be protected against 1.5/1.11 = Mag 1.35135 KB and below. There are rather a lot lot of additional powers that clock in at mag 0.9 and Mag 1; such as Frag Grenade and Foot Stomp and Force Blast and Hand Clap etc. etc. Also the next major KB protection performance breakpoint is at Mag2; so 2x sets of Gladiator's Armor would cover that nicely. (the more KB protection the better, obviously... but the big breakpoints are Mag 0.67, Mag 0.75, Mag1, Mag 2; Mag 3 and 4... with considerably smaller ones at Mag 5, 6 and 8!) ((and of course if the devs can tweak things so that henchmen gain the benefit of Blessing of the Zephyr, Steadfast Protection and Karma KB protection IOs that'd help too!)) 🥺

Honestly the Set bonuses my MMs normally tend to push are +Recharge and +MaxHP, and as the former has no benefit to pets it's a write off. MaxHP benefits the T1 henchmen pretty drastically though. And having at least a few points of Knockback Protection is a major QOL change for all henchmen. Accuracy Set bonuses might be situationally useful too, but the 40% return rate combined with the tendency for MMs to frankenslot or procbomb their attacks means it's unlikely to end up as a core pillar of your build. Same for defense and damage resistance (other than *perhaps* Fire Resistance set bonuses given how easy they are to gain from purple/winter sets). Other properties that henchmen might want to boost (such as damage? regeneration? recovery? maximum endurance? endurance discount? movement speed?) all have very small raw numbers in their set bonus effects even before the -60% inheritance tax.

I mean, they get that NOW if you have at least one set of 3x Gladiators Armor; and since they're PVP IOs the set bonus functions when exemplared even if they're not attuned. And many MMs can slot Resistance Set IOs into their T1 upgrade; so they're available from very low level. Even a single instance of this grants the pets "Mag 1.2" KB protection; which is enough to stop most Knockdown powers dead until you're fighting higher than +3s. Same goes for 3x Fury of the Gladiator (meh). ((I'd really like to see Blessing of the Zephyr, Steadfast Protection and Karma -KB IOs be made to function with them SOONTM...))

I'm pretty sure they could theoretically give MMs a toggle with an only-affecting-henchmen Mag 100+ "reverse repel" effect; so that we can choose to vacuum all the little unruly smeggers up and then deposit them somewhere else after moving... (Perhaps even with a few animation tweaks? Robotics = Voltron Combine!)

Looks like the "Fixed a bug where Recovery Set Bonuses were not included in the henchmen set bonus sharing." point didn't make it into the build. My pets are still showing no inherited Recovery bonuses on Brainstorm.