megaericzero

Given the costume files save colors in RGB values, they already have access to all the colors. Any potential jank would likely be with UI implementation and removing/suspending any backend safeguards that normally prevent you from deviating from the standard swatch options.

If it helps, the following powers have the same cast time per COD: (color coded: Archery, Assault Rifle, Beam Rifle, Arsenal Control) 1.0s: Snap Shot, Explosive Shot, Stunning Shot => Single Shot 1.17s: Fistful of Arrows => Sniper Rifle (fast ver.) 1.67s: Aimed Shot, Ranged Shot (fast ver.) => Charged Shot I don't know how much wiggle room - if any - there is but, if there can be a discrepancy of fractions of a second, we also have: 1.83s: Blazing Arrow => Sleep Grenade, Flash Bang, and Tear Gas all at 1.87s (0.04s diff.) 2.0s: Rain of Arrows => Cutting Beam, Disintegrate, and Lancer Shot all at 1.9s (0.1s diff.) That covers most of Archery except Ranged Shot (long ver.) (and possibly the ones that don't line-up perfectly.)

Seems like no harm no foul, depending on how it's coded. If it only fires once on each inspiration when they're created, it would just try and fail. There's no penalty for clicking an awaken while alive.

I wasn't suggesting damaging powers so... Unless you consider pool-quality confuse to be a significant DPS boost I guess. History is certainly written by the winners. FWIW, and I understand if you don't believe me, the suggested change wasn't born of a desire for revenge. My response that it happened to Challenge is to point out it's not solid to say we can't replace a power when the power we're talking about replaced a power. The actual suggestion to turn it into a PROC was purely trying to add more functionality to Presence. Yes, by compartmentalizing, because I was avoiding: giving Intimidate special treatment by making it a third no-prereq choice; giving Provoke special treatment that it should give Challenge for free; and we know the devs don't want any more either-ors. The most - seemingly only ubiquitously - contentious part of the suggestion in the OP seems to be the loss of Pacify itself. Since we're about to circle the drain on that part, I'm just going to drop it. What about (and forget everything in the OP in regards to this next part): - a threat set that adds Chance to Confuse* - a threat set that throttles AOE taunt to ST taunt * themed as a placate tricking someone into doing a temporary heel-turn, which is awkward because threat was formerly taunt so everything is themed as insulting someone, but now that it's a shared category with placate it shouldn't be any more awkward giving placate something themed properly for itself Now, we have no issues involving touching Pacify or Provoke, Provoke can become Challenge, and we "added" the confuse power with it taking on the slot tax to exist. (Now I have concerns with taunt creating a conflicting "confused but taunted", which might accidentally work as a pseudo-stun, and of course Tankers/Brutes could accidentally nerf their Taunt or aura.)

The misunderstanding was much the opposite. I knew we were talking about the placated mob. I was saying I was unsure that being tagged "notify mobs: always" broke placation outright, since I've only ever seen damage break it, which would mean non-damaging powers (RTTC, Invin, AAO) would not. (I'm not in a place where I can test that right now by trying Placate + Surveillance with my spider to test if non-damaging debuffs break placate.) If it is the case that simply notifying the mobs breaks placate, that's fine. Better, actually, because the reason I brought it up was the fear I accidentally opened up the door to create "placate auras," which we probably don't want. Is there a meta built around Presence? Genuine question - I've only ever taken Unrelenting on one character. I thought it was much more about Hasten, CJ, and Tough/Weave. *shrug* I gave my two cents on Brutes. I see your bullet points on their issues in the same light as you see my bullet points on the benefits of this suggestion. What do you have slotted? Is it for set bonuses or to actually improve the power? Not theoretically; practically. I've always treated it as a one-slot wonder but I am guessing you're using it for something related to Mocking Beratement or Triumphant Insult? I've asked myself that before.

By damage, sure. I was unaware whether non-damaging effects - mostly debuffs - actively removed it or not. For instance, hitting them with Surveillance after Placate since it does no damage but does reduce defense/resistance. Never actually tested it. Right. What I was asking is the distinction if you're referring to the PBAOE taunt that's built-into those powers, or this flag which is almost always on in enemy-affecting powers except in rare cases like Mind Control's confuses: Because that tag seems to make powers - even single-target ones - notify all mobs that you're there if they were unaware before but I've never seen it break Stalkers' placate unless you cause damage to the placated target. (eg: Placate a Hellion minion and start punching his boss. All my attacks have "Notify Mobs: Always" and any others nearby will be made aware of my presence but the minion I placated doesn't lose its placate as long as I don't hurt him.) see: -- I've given several. In the OP alone:

I am aware that knockback that succeeds but is below a certain threshold is knockdown and that 0.67 is the golden number often used for powers sold as knockdown by default. I was unaware about the relationship between distance and magnitude, though. The reason I assumed knockback distance was the equivalent of its duration stat is that no other mez has distance but knockback has no duration yet all other mez enhancements only increase their duration, and - at least in my experience - knockback enhancements don't appear to increase magnitude or else slotting it would make it easier to knock down bosses and enemies with knockback protection. So, sure, we wrap back around to "just floor the magnitude" then. Whether or not negative-value enhancements are possible is certainly a dev question. It may depend on whether or not the values are signed or unsigned integers. We definitely want to avoid the solution of granting any protection or resistance to the target to compensate the original power effect because that can disrupt other taunts occurring at the same time, hence my focus throughout the thread on nerfing the slotted power itself instead of ever buffing the target. As far as invalid builds - to the best of my knowledge - your character would keep the power but could not respec without having to replace it, since we're plucking it out of the set rather than overwriting it. In order (separated by semicolons): there are benefits whether you denounce them or not, such as giving players the option for single-target taunt in a pool while maintaining the ability to make it AOE; it would entice the people who have asked for pool confuse or Intimidate/Invoke Panic without having to take a taunt or placate; reconsidering slotting depends on if you already slot Pacify and/or if you take both Pacify and Provoke as of current; I've addressed how to try working this in given what currently exists but, of course, suggesting basically anything falls into SCR territory, and for the "no reason" refer back to the "no benefit" section. Alright. I always see things like the tesla cage from whichever ranged PROC does hold fire off the instant I press the power so I wasn't sure if the effect was too, and if that was true of all PROCs, or not. Is it actually wiped-out by non-damaging notifications, though, or just suppressed/ignored? Via taunt, right? Or are we talking about the power stat "notifies mobs"? In the case of the latter, it doesn't seem like that would sufficiently interrupt a placate, since lots of powers - including single-target - notify nearby mobs without breaking placate as long as you don't lay a finger on the placated foe.

For the placate portion, single-target. We're just looking to recreate Pacify in some capacity. For the taunt portion, I'm confused. Assuming KB2KD reduces mag, we just crank taunt down to either 0.01 or 0.00 depending on which is possible. If it can't be true zero, there's still concern that any nonzero value would still accidentally taunt the target since mobs don't ubiquitously have any taunt protection, so for that we apply another "anti-enhancement" to floor the duration of the taunt. Alternatively, if KB2KD doesn't reduce mag but instead reduces distance - and assuming that that's considered the equivalent to other mezzes' duration, we set the taunt to 0.01s duration. After that, we have the placate apply after some arbitrary delay so it activates after the taunt wore off. EDIT: Wait... can PROCs have a delay or do they all activate the instant the power rolls the dice? But, also, is there something wrong with like 1ms taunt overlapping placate? Does it cancel the placate? -- EDIT 2: Oh god I didn't think about taunt auras! Forget Blazing Aura or Mud Pots - they'll just nix it by doing damage - but having Invincibility, Rise to the Challenge, or Against All Odds periodically roll placate on nearby foes. I'm both concerned and morbidly curious. And Stalkers would ironically miss out since they can't have taunt auras.

So we... use it to reduce the taunt to 0.01 magnitude? Right. You would reduce the taunt and add a placate PROC. Unless you're saying an enhancement can't have two unique effects because coding reasons, which is fair. Last I remember, though, at least one of the KB2KD is "knockback to knockdown AND adds knockdown if the power doesn't have it." On a different note, I genuinely appreciate the discussion - Luminara, Rudra, FupDup, Super Atom, Snarky. Even though I'm arguing some, I still think it's as a constructive back-and-forth.

Okay, I'll be clearer because I missed in in trying to get us on the same page again: it's not even a high hit percent / chance to occur anymore. It's just average. There's still a legitimate chance to miss. inb4 "but then it's useless" because only the extremes apply Genuinely curious how KB2KD works. My best guess is that it floors the knockback distance aspect. In our placate PROC, we could try reducing the magnitude or duration to such insanely low levels that it's only active for a single frame. We're approaching or crossing SCR territory by this point, though.

I think you and I, specifically, need to get our bearings again. Based on what was discussed so far - and I'll update the OP to reflect this in a moment: For simplicity's sake, we're removing both Pacify and Provoke. We're putting Challenge back into the set at tier 1. (We're ignoring the fears and hypothetical confuse right now.) We then add two PROCs - one that adds a taunt AOE so Challenge can become Provoke or Confront can become pseudo-Taunt, one that removes taunt and adds placate so that Challenge and Confront can become Pacify. Neither effect is autohit anymore - that'll be one of the trade-offs for being dollar-store alternatives to Taunt and Placate. The taunt AOE PROC (and probably the placate PROC) apply a huge -recharge enhancement to the power they're slotted in, which further changes Challenge/Confront into Provoke/Pacify. Yes, it is possible with this current iteration for a person to accidentally or purposely nerf their Taunt or Placate by slotting one of those PROCs without reading what they do. Brute Taunt is still autohit on the AOE portion. (Also it's not my intent, though it is an unintended side effect. What's the difference? Intent would be malicious and deliberate, neither of which I was trying to be.)

That was actually exactly what I had in mind when mulling over potential recharge reduction - the IO would give it the AOE taunt proc but also come with a -howevermany% recharge "enhancement" to that power, forcing Confront to "become" Taunt so to speak. As to the accuracy/PPM, I was originally looking to assuage the concern that Confront was autohit and not maxing the PROC to match would be detrimental but, as I mulled over in one of the prior posts, that could be another balancing factor is that the AOE portion could still miss. The devil is in the details.

Which, since it can only be slotted in powers that accept confuse sets, achieves the goal. Unless we want to get into the nitty gritty of it having independent values on chance, magnitude, duration, being able to double on things that are already AOE, etc. I'm of the opinion that the largest problems for Brutes are the Tanker damage buff and Fury itself not being standout enough to separate them from Scrappers in either burst or sustain which, yeah, can cause them to be watered down to Scrappers who gave up crits to have Tanker health caps - not even tanker or median values - and worse damage multipliers. But, again, I'll leave the larger discussion for that thread. I'm normally an advocate or at least neutral on the cottage rule. I'm not a staunch believer that it's forbidden to use a method you disliked the result of to reverse the result, though. Plus, I do think FupDup touched on something in mentioning the Presence pool. Assuming it's not a bug, that sounds like a different discussion to have on the devs A) going overboard for fear Possess was too powerful for Blasters/Masterminds instead of just not giving it to them and B) obfuscating that information at least a little by not disclosing it in the description text. I'm not saying we can't discuss that; just that it sounds like an outlier rather than just assuming it's the baseline for future stuff. I don't disagree it's a dick move, by the way. That's why I went to the effort of suggesting a way to get it back via IOs. I don't know how cherished Pacify is but I'm hoping it's not "absolutely must six slot to max-out the actual placate effect", whereas it would still be as good of a mule as it currently is since "threat" now covers both placate and taunt.

You and I see it every differently. I see it as pretty much indistinguishable from mere lip service to a nerf rather than a legitimate nerf. Otherwise, see the response about keeping Provoke and adding an(other) IO set to make "AOE taunt into single target." Skipping the Brute debate since there's already an active thread about that currently. I did mention I have strong concerns about Confront specifically because of its recharge time and how to potentially address that. I'll bite on the "how" because I already thought about that: Coercive Persuasion can already apply AOE confuse by PROC (or accuracy check?). While the enhancement is presented as "ST taunt to AOE taunt," mechanically we can make it whatever Coercive Persuasion is - but for taunt - and just crank its chance/accuracy as high as possible. If it's an accuracy check, it would still have a chance to miss in Confront but that is probably a positive for balance reasons.

Were Challenge and Provoke the same in every way - magnitude, duration, etc. - except one was AOE? Genuine question. I never checked the numbers back then and COD doesn't have its info as far as I'm aware. See but that's part of the suggestion so... I'm gonna say "a theoretical enhancement from a set that does not exist to change a taunt to a pacify that [...]" The suggestion wasn't "and/or" - it was a concrete "and". If the latter is not possible, 100% nix the former. I understand it's a nerf in the form of slot taxing what is currently a base function of the power. If it makes it any better, we can inverse it - keep Provoke AOE but make an "aoe taunt to single target" IO but then Scrappers lose the functionality for Confront to become like Taunt, or else also having "ST taunt to AOE" is only useful for Confront. The reason I did it the way I did in the OP were: * people complaining about having to take taunt or placate to reach ST fear * people complaining about having to take taunt + placate or something + ST fear to get AOE fear * giving people the option to have Challenge again, for those who want to be able to taunt but don't want to taunt the entire group

I had completely forgotten about Misdirection. Maybe in a world where the Stealth was made as good as it is now but Invisibility hadn't been made Infiltration, there would have been room to put Pacify there. But that would still constitute removing a power which: Oof. Fair point. Tell that to Challenge, which Pacify very specifically did that exact thing to.

I'm still not quite sure what you mean by nerfing Provoke, though. It already doesn't get the auto-hit or range debuff benefits that Confront and Taunt do. Neither did Challenge back in the day, as far as I'm aware. Turning Provoke into single-target and adjusting its duration/recharge ratio would just make it Challenge. It is a nerf but largely inasmuch as taking out a component (being AOE) and then selling that component back as an enhancement slot tax. I was presenting this as an alternative to merging Pacify and Provoke. It would instead see the fear power (whichever name you want to go with - Intimidate or Invoke Panic) being single-target and selling its AOE component back as an IO. Again, a nerf inasmuch as a slot tax. I only suggested it because I foresaw pushback that two unique powers - a taunt and a placate - were being forced together instead of consolidating arguably redundant fears.

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't necessarily see AOE taunt as objectively superior to single-target. Tangentially, I do have concerns about Confront spam now that I think about it, since that thing recharges super fast as a trade-off for being single-target. Maybe the taunt-to-placate IO would need an extra cost, like debuffing recharge time on its slotted power. Brain fart/typo. Fixed in the OP.

Of course, number tweaking would be involved. I did also recognize that Challenge used to be part of this pool, so if the changes are so substantial that it should be renamed/replaced back to that power, by all means. Definitely don't just remove the AOE component, nerfing it. I'll edit that into the OP. *shrug* Flip-flopping it is also possible, but I'm sure the same will be said about Provoke, or any power. I did say the same about Intimidate in a prior thread when someone presented Invoke Panic as the "superior" version that the other should be nixed for.

Hello, everyone. Bit of a slow Saturday at work. I'll be honest: I didn't think about this idea more than a few minutes so I'm fully prepared to hear how half-baked / unworkable it is. The idea was twofold: 1) try and accommodate the people who want Presence reworked 2) integrate the use of IOs to help with the changes to Presence while also expanding the precedence of IOs giving options to slightly alter effects at the cost of a slot (eg: KB2KD) What I'm attempting to tackle: (these are not my feelings; rather, what I heard other people say in past threads about Presence) Pacify and Provoke are in direct opposition to each other, so there's never a time you'd want to take both Given the above, you have to take Intimidate to access its own AOE version (Invoke Panic) or Unrelenting The Presence pool should incorporate a confuse effect somewhere With that in mind... PRESENCE POOL CHANGES remove Pacify and Provoke turn Provoke into single-target and rework its numbers (rech, duration, etc.) add Challenge back to the pool at tier 1 shift Provoke, Intimidate and Invoke Panic up a tier each (Intimidate now no longer requires a prior power pick; Invoke Panic only requires one prior power pick) add Confuddle - a single-target confuse - at tier 4 (requiring two prior power picks; can be made partly AOE with Coercive Persuasion) For those better served with a visual aid, the power table would change to this: Challenge Intimidate Invoke Panic Confuddle Unrelenting NEW INVENTION ENHANCEMENTS Group Insult, a low-level set (10-20) whose final enhancement changes single-target taunt to AOE taunt with the tradeoff of applying a -recharge enhancement, causing the power it's slotted in to recharge slower (turns Challenge back into Provoke; can also be slotted by Scrappers to turn Confront into Provoke+) Failed Mockery, a mid-level set (25-40) whose final enhancement changes taunt into placate and is unique so only one can be slotted per build, and similar tradeoff of increasing its slotted power's recharge time (effectively turns Challenge or Confront into Pacify) Unforgivable Insolence, a high-level set (40+) whose final enhancement makes taunt/placate auto-hit and is unique so only one can be slotted per build (turns Provoke into Challenge; unfortunately, I don't think there's a way to get it to recognize the other two enhancements to make the other two PROC effects auto hit but that was originally the intent before further discussion on why that's bad anyway) (okay this one was a bad idea) Alternatively, we could change Intimidate to a single-target (brain fart) remove Intimidate and make Invoke Panic single-target with tweaked values (second brain fart) remove Invoke Panic instead of Pacify and Provoke, and add an IO that changes single-target fear to AOE. I figured tackling the taunt/placate dichotomy was less disruptive, since fear is more wide-spread which may cause horrible unexpected consequences. I haven't thought about things in-depth like how Confront recharging so quickly with the ST-to-AOE might let Scrappers accidentally step on Tankers'/Brutes' toes by rapid-stacking it. If it works out, this could be the precedence for more "sacrifice a slot for a unique/modified effect" type IOs. Anyway, that's the idea. Happy holidays, everyone.

There's a breaking point (on certain resolutions?) where the game erroneously detects it no longer needs that scrollbar when it actually does. It removes it and then you have to use your enhancement tray slots as a holding area to access the last row or two of unassigned enhancements.

What would be the reason/goal for the event?

At least a handful of sets from the Eco-Friendly Powerset Recycling! thread have been added to the game in some capacity.

Solid suggestion. By the way, there's a thread by alchemistic for power set suggestions that are theoretically easier to implement by reusing assets like this. Not that you have to post in it but it's worth checking out.

Early Overwatch at that - 6v6, no role lock. Feels great after taking a year off from hero shooters in the wake of Gundam Evolution's end of service.