megaericzero

I think you and I, specifically, need to get our bearings again. Based on what was discussed so far - and I'll update the OP to reflect this in a moment: For simplicity's sake, we're removing both Pacify and Provoke. We're putting Challenge back into the set at tier 1. (We're ignoring the fears and hypothetical confuse right now.) We then add two PROCs - one that adds a taunt AOE so Challenge can become Provoke or Confront can become pseudo-Taunt, one that removes taunt and adds placate so that Challenge and Confront can become Pacify. Neither effect is autohit anymore - that'll be one of the trade-offs for being dollar-store alternatives to Taunt and Placate. The taunt AOE PROC (and probably the placate PROC) apply a huge -recharge enhancement to the power they're slotted in, which further changes Challenge/Confront into Provoke/Pacify. Yes, it is possible with this current iteration for a person to accidentally or purposely nerf their Taunt or Placate by slotting one of those PROCs without reading what they do. Brute Taunt is still autohit on the AOE portion. (Also it's not my intent, though it is an unintended side effect. What's the difference? Intent would be malicious and deliberate, neither of which I was trying to be.)

That was actually exactly what I had in mind when mulling over potential recharge reduction - the IO would give it the AOE taunt proc but also come with a -howevermany% recharge "enhancement" to that power, forcing Confront to "become" Taunt so to speak. As to the accuracy/PPM, I was originally looking to assuage the concern that Confront was autohit and not maxing the PROC to match would be detrimental but, as I mulled over in one of the prior posts, that could be another balancing factor is that the AOE portion could still miss. The devil is in the details.

Which, since it can only be slotted in powers that accept confuse sets, achieves the goal. Unless we want to get into the nitty gritty of it having independent values on chance, magnitude, duration, being able to double on things that are already AOE, etc. I'm of the opinion that the largest problems for Brutes are the Tanker damage buff and Fury itself not being standout enough to separate them from Scrappers in either burst or sustain which, yeah, can cause them to be watered down to Scrappers who gave up crits to have Tanker health caps - not even tanker or median values - and worse damage multipliers. But, again, I'll leave the larger discussion for that thread. I'm normally an advocate or at least neutral on the cottage rule. I'm not a staunch believer that it's forbidden to use a method you disliked the result of to reverse the result, though. Plus, I do think FupDup touched on something in mentioning the Presence pool. Assuming it's not a bug, that sounds like a different discussion to have on the devs A) going overboard for fear Possess was too powerful for Blasters/Masterminds instead of just not giving it to them and B) obfuscating that information at least a little by not disclosing it in the description text. I'm not saying we can't discuss that; just that it sounds like an outlier rather than just assuming it's the baseline for future stuff. I don't disagree it's a dick move, by the way. That's why I went to the effort of suggesting a way to get it back via IOs. I don't know how cherished Pacify is but I'm hoping it's not "absolutely must six slot to max-out the actual placate effect", whereas it would still be as good of a mule as it currently is since "threat" now covers both placate and taunt.

You and I see it every differently. I see it as pretty much indistinguishable from mere lip service to a nerf rather than a legitimate nerf. Otherwise, see the response about keeping Provoke and adding an(other) IO set to make "AOE taunt into single target." Skipping the Brute debate since there's already an active thread about that currently. I did mention I have strong concerns about Confront specifically because of its recharge time and how to potentially address that. I'll bite on the "how" because I already thought about that: Coercive Persuasion can already apply AOE confuse by PROC (or accuracy check?). While the enhancement is presented as "ST taunt to AOE taunt," mechanically we can make it whatever Coercive Persuasion is - but for taunt - and just crank its chance/accuracy as high as possible. If it's an accuracy check, it would still have a chance to miss in Confront but that is probably a positive for balance reasons.

Were Challenge and Provoke the same in every way - magnitude, duration, etc. - except one was AOE? Genuine question. I never checked the numbers back then and COD doesn't have its info as far as I'm aware. See but that's part of the suggestion so... I'm gonna say "a theoretical enhancement from a set that does not exist to change a taunt to a pacify that [...]" The suggestion wasn't "and/or" - it was a concrete "and". If the latter is not possible, 100% nix the former. I understand it's a nerf in the form of slot taxing what is currently a base function of the power. If it makes it any better, we can inverse it - keep Provoke AOE but make an "aoe taunt to single target" IO but then Scrappers lose the functionality for Confront to become like Taunt, or else also having "ST taunt to AOE" is only useful for Confront. The reason I did it the way I did in the OP were: * people complaining about having to take taunt or placate to reach ST fear * people complaining about having to take taunt + placate or something + ST fear to get AOE fear * giving people the option to have Challenge again, for those who want to be able to taunt but don't want to taunt the entire group

I had completely forgotten about Misdirection. Maybe in a world where the Stealth was made as good as it is now but Invisibility hadn't been made Infiltration, there would have been room to put Pacify there. But that would still constitute removing a power which: Oof. Fair point. Tell that to Challenge, which Pacify very specifically did that exact thing to.

I'm still not quite sure what you mean by nerfing Provoke, though. It already doesn't get the auto-hit or range debuff benefits that Confront and Taunt do. Neither did Challenge back in the day, as far as I'm aware. Turning Provoke into single-target and adjusting its duration/recharge ratio would just make it Challenge. It is a nerf but largely inasmuch as taking out a component (being AOE) and then selling that component back as an enhancement slot tax. I was presenting this as an alternative to merging Pacify and Provoke. It would instead see the fear power (whichever name you want to go with - Intimidate or Invoke Panic) being single-target and selling its AOE component back as an IO. Again, a nerf inasmuch as a slot tax. I only suggested it because I foresaw pushback that two unique powers - a taunt and a placate - were being forced together instead of consolidating arguably redundant fears.

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't necessarily see AOE taunt as objectively superior to single-target. Tangentially, I do have concerns about Confront spam now that I think about it, since that thing recharges super fast as a trade-off for being single-target. Maybe the taunt-to-placate IO would need an extra cost, like debuffing recharge time on its slotted power. Brain fart/typo. Fixed in the OP.

Of course, number tweaking would be involved. I did also recognize that Challenge used to be part of this pool, so if the changes are so substantial that it should be renamed/replaced back to that power, by all means. Definitely don't just remove the AOE component, nerfing it. I'll edit that into the OP. *shrug* Flip-flopping it is also possible, but I'm sure the same will be said about Provoke, or any power. I did say the same about Intimidate in a prior thread when someone presented Invoke Panic as the "superior" version that the other should be nixed for.

Hello, everyone. Bit of a slow Saturday at work. I'll be honest: I didn't think about this idea more than a few minutes so I'm fully prepared to hear how half-baked / unworkable it is. The idea was twofold: 1) try and accommodate the people who want Presence reworked 2) integrate the use of IOs to help with the changes to Presence while also expanding the precedence of IOs giving options to slightly alter effects at the cost of a slot (eg: KB2KD) What I'm attempting to tackle: (these are not my feelings; rather, what I heard other people say in past threads about Presence) Pacify and Provoke are in direct opposition to each other, so there's never a time you'd want to take both Given the above, you have to take Intimidate to access its own AOE version (Invoke Panic) or Unrelenting The Presence pool should incorporate a confuse effect somewhere With that in mind... PRESENCE POOL CHANGES remove Pacify and Provoke turn Provoke into single-target and rework its numbers (rech, duration, etc.) add Challenge back to the pool at tier 1 shift Provoke, Intimidate and Invoke Panic up a tier each (Intimidate now no longer requires a prior power pick; Invoke Panic only requires one prior power pick) add Confuddle - a single-target confuse - at tier 4 (requiring two prior power picks; can be made partly AOE with Coercive Persuasion) For those better served with a visual aid, the power table would change to this: Challenge Intimidate Invoke Panic Confuddle Unrelenting NEW INVENTION ENHANCEMENTS Group Insult, a low-level set (10-20) whose final enhancement changes single-target taunt to AOE taunt with the tradeoff of applying a -recharge enhancement, causing the power it's slotted in to recharge slower (turns Challenge back into Provoke; can also be slotted by Scrappers to turn Confront into Provoke+) Failed Mockery, a mid-level set (25-40) whose final enhancement changes taunt into placate and is unique so only one can be slotted per build, and similar tradeoff of increasing its slotted power's recharge time (effectively turns Challenge or Confront into Pacify) Unforgivable Insolence, a high-level set (40+) whose final enhancement makes taunt/placate auto-hit and is unique so only one can be slotted per build (turns Provoke into Challenge; unfortunately, I don't think there's a way to get it to recognize the other two enhancements to make the other two PROC effects auto hit but that was originally the intent before further discussion on why that's bad anyway) (okay this one was a bad idea) Alternatively, we could change Intimidate to a single-target (brain fart) remove Intimidate and make Invoke Panic single-target with tweaked values (second brain fart) remove Invoke Panic instead of Pacify and Provoke, and add an IO that changes single-target fear to AOE. I figured tackling the taunt/placate dichotomy was less disruptive, since fear is more wide-spread which may cause horrible unexpected consequences. I haven't thought about things in-depth like how Confront recharging so quickly with the ST-to-AOE might let Scrappers accidentally step on Tankers'/Brutes' toes by rapid-stacking it. If it works out, this could be the precedence for more "sacrifice a slot for a unique/modified effect" type IOs. Anyway, that's the idea. Happy holidays, everyone.

There's a breaking point (on certain resolutions?) where the game erroneously detects it no longer needs that scrollbar when it actually does. It removes it and then you have to use your enhancement tray slots as a holding area to access the last row or two of unassigned enhancements.

What would be the reason/goal for the event?

At least a handful of sets from the Eco-Friendly Powerset Recycling! thread have been added to the game in some capacity.

Solid suggestion. By the way, there's a thread by alchemistic for power set suggestions that are theoretically easier to implement by reusing assets like this. Not that you have to post in it but it's worth checking out.

Early Overwatch at that - 6v6, no role lock. Feels great after taking a year off from hero shooters in the wake of Gundam Evolution's end of service.

Just for clarity: Is that an issue with the limited graphics or that it's beyond your suspension of disbelief? (Or something else?) The quoted part specifically.

It's a funny punchline but not absurd. If you managed to wedge something that big into an object (or person), you've definitely done some structural damage. It/they could very well be one more stiff breeze away from crumbling; pushing it the rest of the way through is feasible.

Don't forget that Blaters, Controllers/Dominators, Corruptors/Defenders, and Masterminds can all access Rise of the Phoenix through ancillary power pools. So...

Couple thoughts. 1) This first one is mostly directed to Poptarts: is hitstop more exclusive to Japanese media? The majority of examples in the video linked were games originating in Japan - Street Fighter, Monster Hunter, Guilty Gear - and games that follow that media style like Skullgirls. They're also mostly fighting games. I'm used to it, personally, which is to say that I hadn't initially noticed. For people who don't consume that kind of media, it can be quite off-putting. There's always a question of how much to accommodate media tropes outside of western comic books since that's what the game is rooted in, even in the case of alternate options. 2) I know Poptarts established the suggestion is for the feel and to disregard realism but there's also looking at it as the weapon not cleaving in a single blow and the user continuing the swing to eventually cut through. Sure, that makes it weaker but trades raw power for showing the person's tenacity. Here's a couple gif examples; I don't think them being punches diminishes the point that the hits connect, visibly stop, and the user continues to apply force which could easily apply to a melee weapon swing. (There's also a good number of western videogame examples in Mortal Kombat's x-ray attacks but those are quite gory so I'll abstain from posting/linking and let those curious look them up.)

TBH I haven't been reading every post in this thread diligently. I'd assume the hitstop was baked into the alternate animation, since I assume the engine isn't even capable of detecting the collision on top of the fact that it can't blend animations.

As a power customization option, then, for those who want it? (As per the usual response.) -- Tangentially related, since Poptarts keeps mentioning perceived impact: I do think the power FX added later on live lack the same impact as early sets. For instance, all the later electrical and flame effects, such as Praetorian Clockwork. Electrical/Fire Blast and Melee sound way better with all the crackling, thuds, explosions, etc. Ion Judgment hits hard but it feels like a wet noodle because it's so soft.

I believe - and it's just a guess - Katana, Broad Sword, etc. are meant to be assumed as making glancing blows or wedging in only partially and being yanked back out as opposed to Titan Weapons cleaving clean through. If the graphics weren't PG13, TW would be a very gory set. (I don't feel strongly about the suggestion for hitstop itself. I agree it "feels" better coming from Monster Hunter, unrealistic/wrong or not.)

My two cents: I prefer having the red-white-and-blue boy scout (Superman, Captain America, Optimus Prime, All-Might, Statesman) and I think killing Statesman (and Sister Psyche) was a dumb stunt to drum-up interest from the shock factor which, sure, comics do all the time but that doesn't make it a good decision, but I wholly agree that death should mean something and the decision should be treated with finality in mind because flippant resurrections completely undermine the death and anything that stemmed from it in the first place. Like Photrius, I would prefer he didn't die in the first place but that bridge has already been crossed. Given the mentions of the dev AMA, it would be nice to have him return via Tyrant getting a redemption. It would, however, need to be a carefully planned road with him starting depowered from the Well and working his way back up from rock-bottom both in physical strength and in his character so that he deserves it by the end, and metered out in a way that he doesn't steal the spotlight from the player during or after. A very tight squeeze.

On a different note: Sea Monsters (Mastermind primary) "You command a school of humanoid monstrosities from under the sea. These denizens of the deep are known to drag sailors and unwary landlubbers to their demise. These creatures are used to the frigid temperatures and crushing pressure of the deep ocean and, as such, are often resilient to cold and smashing damage." POWER TABLE Spiny Urchins (Ranged) Foe Moderate Damage (Lethal), -Defense Summon Fishmen (Location) Summon Henchman (Fishman ×3) Shark Attack (Ranged) Foe High Damage-over-Time (Lethal), Knockback Monstrous Growth (Ranged AOE) Henchman Equip Urchin Spray (Ranged Cone) Foe Moderate Damage (Lethal), Knockback Call Hunters (Location) Summon Henchman (Hunter ×2) Lurk (PBAOE) Henchman +Stealth, +Defense, +Special Swamp Creature (Location) Summon Henchman (Swamp Creature) Primal Evolution (Ranged AOE) Henchman Upgrade POWER DETAILS (wrapped in a spoiler tag so this post isn't gigantic) HENCHMEN DETAILS (also wrapped in a spoiler to save space)

I've been meaning to level a concept build with similar effect. Martial Arts with PROCs loaded on top of the existing CC effects, cognitive interface, and control hybrid. The only thing lacking is the alcohol breath. Looking at the wiki, Scrappers' fire mastery copies the tanker/brute version, which has Fire Ball instead of Fire Breath.