megaericzero

Erm, did you guys know wiki pages have history tabs that are built-in archives of previous page versions?

I was actually unaware weapon customization can adjust emanation points; never paid attention if the barrel lengths made a difference. Thank you for that. I was giving the BOTD to the game that it couldn't since spaghetti code always comes up in weird places so nothing surprises me anymore when it's just not possible because of the code. 👍

Then don't say this: You either do care what the exact name is or you don't. Otherwise it's a double standard and you're trying to justify your personal opinion. I think it's more that you're hung-up on your personal definition of No Weapon. I don't think anyone said remove the weapon model and leave the emanation points as-is. We advised alternatives from the character's body, just without requiring a visible piece of equipment on those body parts. We then argued for two-ish pages about whether or not a visual-tell was needed but - to my understanding - the whole time has been under the assumption from both sides that the emanation points would be moved to somewhere on the body when a rifle isn't present. Shoulder, hand, nose, or otherwise; just that some of us think you don't need a defined piece of equipment to be present because you can explain the equipment as being so discrete it's not visible. -- If it's a genuine engine limitation - as in the game itself cannot handle a "No Weapon" (or "Integrated Weapon" or whatever) in the costume side dictating new emanation points (since normally X-Ray Beam and others reassign them via the individual powers' customization) - then having a separate Arsenal Blast set makes sense. Otherwise, such a set would either be redundant like Katana was on release or the new set would come with unwanted gimmick(s). I'd rather try to avoid bloating the power set list like that.

That's why I corrected myself to munitions with respect to AR instead of bullets. Munitions covers other military armaments, including explosives et al. Specifically to the statement "It is in the power set name", I already called it in the first post of this page of the thread that you'd try using that. From there, I go and find evidence of existing customization directly contradicting the specific name of a power set, and you're just going to hand-waive it because your opinion of where the line in the sand is drawn is objectively correct compared to the rest of us. I've already done that dance in the Kheldian thread. On a different note, when you say "finger gun", are you willing to accept bare skin (or tights, etc) making a finger-gun pose? Or are you still hung-up on needing to see a separate device attached/integrated?

I don't think we're ever going to agree on that one. To me, the theme of AR is munitions - the things flying through the air and actually pelting the enemy - not where they come out of. Otherwise every non-weapon blast set has to be considered Body Blast. We tried that in a thread about a different customization topic but Rudra and some others weren't having it.

Wraps right back around to: I thought munitions were the point of the set? I'd repost the screenshots of Fire Breath and Laser Beam Eyes coming from hands but I think we already know the progression will be "you're still using fire and energy which are the main point of the sets" > sorry, I didn't realize the point of AR or DP was launching firearms out of my body > "but they're CALLED Assault Rifle and Dual Pistols." Then I post sets where the explicit name of the set is directly contradicted with customization options but, for some reason, hand-waiving that inconsistency is okay yet the lines you draw are objectively correct and... -- On a different, unrelated note and more in-line with the OP, how does anyone feel about options that rotate the weapons between each others' sets - letting Beam Rifle use a bow to be a "bow of light" or allowing Archery to use a rifle so it's a harpoon gun?

The Touhou wiki does a disservice putting this tidbit in the Additional Information subsection: "Reisen's right hand is often depicted to be making a gun shape, which leads to fan assumption that she shoots danmaku in this manner, and she indeed does in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody." Scarlet Weather Rhapsody is canon, in case there's any question. She is fully capable of firing bullets from her bare fingers without her megaphone as a magic focus. He doesn't have to go full cannon; he can shoot lasers from his human-looking fingers outright. (The example gif I'm trying to post keeps erroring, so I'll have to link it here.) His fingers don't actually open up or transform, though. No compartments, no expanding, no visible devices beyond smooth hands; just tiny dots on his fingertips that go pew-pew. (Oh, okay, I guess it's just gifs in general that don't work on the HC forums? Here's another gif link.)

It's actually not limited to point-blank but I'm not going to play the game we had in the Kheldian thread where you keep moving the goal post. Cyborg 004. "But his hands have banded joints and holes on his fingertips!" Reisen Udongein Inaba (as a magic example) "But that's manifesting them even though it's literal bullets firing from finger guns as her casting method!" Astro Boy "Even though it's lasers with no visible emitters, I'm going to say it couldn't possibly work for Beam Rifle so you'll have to deal with Energy Blast!"

It's hard to find a concise list of examples since trope websites don't generally distinguish ballistics from lasers for built-in weaponry, and obscure media is obscure for a reason. Best I can give off-the-cuff is this from the manga Assassination Classroom: Feel free to ding me for picking a non-cyberpunk example after explicitly naming that genre.

IIRC their powers automatically have higher endurance costs than the same powers on other archetypes; the penalty is built into all their powers.

There are some cyberpunk universes where the armaments are so small they're basically dots on the skin that are invisible at arm's length. Well, aside from explosives specifically. Also, personally, I feel that integrating more primitive animations for the non-bullet options like lobbing actual grenades or fire bombs is a better solution than making an entire redundant power set that would just boil down to AR in all but name and animations. Nomenclature would seem to be laying the groundwork for that possibility given the control and assault equivalents are named Arsenal instead of Rifle.

I can't currently be bothered to find a picture of a cyberpunk character with discrete, built-in versions of the weapons instead so please enjoy this generic smart-aleck image response for the time being.

I thought the visual theme was bullets? For the melee weapons, sure, though even that has some wiggle room as War Mace can also be a hammer or a wrench.

I don't think anyone is arguing about the discount. Most of us probably don't even care either way. It's the compensatory increase in base end cost in the second half of the suggestion, which we can probably assume would be obligatory because there's no way the devs just give us a free buff like that. It makes the worst-case scenario a worst-er-case scenario - if all your henchmen drop in combat, you are now paying more to resummon them than you would have been without this change. Given the choice, we'd rather keep the current status quo where we don't get any bonuses for having pets alive but we also don't have to pay more for re/summoning all six henchmen at the same time. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

can you explain why it would make the problem worse, Probably this part of your OP:

I'm all for it, even if it's a pipe-dream. Animation times would be the biggest concern. Purportedly, the engine doesn't do well when swapping animations that are different durations, so new animations would have to be made for existing powers that have no current weapon animations that match.

The GUI could definitely use a fresh pass. Visual hierarchy and sensibilities have advanced since 2004 for sure. Quick question in regards to the anecdote: /wdwload?

"We do this - not because it is easy but because we thought it would be easy."

FWIW:

I believe we got some wires crossed in communication. For starters: Wavicle's suggestion is for Group Fly to grant other players a temporary power that gives them flight when turned on, which you said was an elegant solution; your response now sounds like you assume the temporary power would remove the flight when turned on, though you hadn't elaborated as such in contrast to Wavicle's version.

Right. That's what I'm getting at. Having Group Fly grant a pop-up tray power is an elegant solution... for player-to-player interactions. If you change Group Fly to that wholesale, though, pets and henchmen will no longer benefit from it. When I said: ... I was voicing concerns that there might be spaghetti getting in the way of reprogramming Group Fly to simultaneously: grant other players a pop-up tray toggle but NOT give them +flight as a buff give pets/henchmen and themself +flight as a buff but NOT attempt to grant them a pop-up tray toggle The reason I brought it up is largely that I'm currently unaware if the game can have one player emit an aura that grants pop-up tray powers to other players (as opposed to themself). EDIT: On a different note, what's stopping Group Fly from granting a pop-up tray toggle to the caster instead that filters Group Fly to only affect the caster and their pets? That eliminates other players from having to fiddle with the pop-up tray and lets the caster swap it in real time with no one needing to visit Null.

Assuming the game can treat players like that but still give henchmen normal +fly; you know how pets/henchmen act with toggles.

Not knocking the suggestion but it is already largely covered by Willpower, both mechanically and thematically. Danger Sense -> Heightened Senses Inexhaustible, Integration -> Fast Healing, Quick Recovery, Reconstruction (Stalkers) Dull Pain -> Rise to the Challenge, High Pain Tolerance, Mind Over Body The Martial Combat stuff and Lightning Reflexes do give it its own flavor related to speed. The tier 9 is rather unorthodox; practical but a wild call from the kinds we have so far.

We had this thread two weeks ago. Here's a quick excerpt: Because I have incurable altitis and no wherewithal to micro-manage my enhancements on the way to 50. Some of us use SOs up to 50 and potentially even beyond. Not everyone has the time or energy to grind for IOs on every character, let alone for over half the character's career. Since SOs are currently the status quo, you're talking about taking that away from people.

"Commander" does seem to be suggested quite often as an archetype to make use of (a modified version of) the henchmen set category, yeah. In fact, here's a thread from a few months ago suggesting Henchmen/Armor specifically, as opposed to this thread's Armor/Control or Armor/Support in the OP. Personally, I do think the name fits better with a henchmen set. For something like the OP, I dunno, maybe "Warden"?