Call Me Awesome

Back when I first started on Live I had the same problem with inf. It didn't go away until characters started getting into the 30's and beyond and they made more inf than they used updating enhancements. I always supported my lower characters with transfers from higher levels. Now that you're starting over again you're feeling the pinch. I suggest using the auction house to make up for the shortfall... the easiest way is to find level 50 rare recipes with lots for sale and none or few bidders. Place bids for stacks of them at 100 - 200 inf and then vendor them for 10k each. There's lots of recipes with no demand and the vendors will pay $5k for level 50 uncommon and $10k for level 50 rare recipes. In a few minutes of work you can easily get a million inf, enough to supply your DO's & SO's for awhile. When you run low just rinse and repeat. The prices on enhancements are the same as they've always been, or at least if they've changed it hasn't been by much.

This may very well have been addressed but a very cursory search didn't turn it up so... I've found that the salvage in the storage racks change order as you take them out. For example, I may be pulling 3 Luck Charms from storage and after the first or second click the Luck Charm suddenly jumps up above the Boresight in the list so I get a random piece of salvage with the next click. I then hunt up the Luck Charm in the list, click on it to get it and suddenly it jumps back to where it belongs in the list. This happens ALL THE FREAKING TIME when I'm trying to pull salvage from the storage racks and it's getting extremely annoying. It happens with every piece of salvage in every rack, if I'm taking more than 1 out the thing jumps all over the place. Whatever this is it seems to be a new post shutdown bug as I think I'd remember one this annoying on Live. I have 13 salvage racks in my base and all of them are affected.

Ah, I completely forgot about the option of Hover tanking. Since the only tank I had on Live without built in KB protection was Fire and hovering didn't let you use Burn (although I believe that changed towards the end) it wasn't something that came to mind.

I don't have Mid's in front of me and I don't know Ice as well as Invuln but Ice's passive ice/fire resistance power as I recall is less useful other than as an IO mule. In Spines since you're stuck with the tier 1 the only thing that immediately comes to mind is build up. I always take build up powers on my scrappers and brutes but with a tank I consider it of secondary or tertiary importance. As a tank I'm there to support the team with aggro management first and additional damage as a secondary. Due to that difference in roles I find build up to be skippable in a tanker. In a primary damage dealer of course you want it, in a tanker I skip it. I'm not there to dish out an alpha strike, I'm there to take it so the rest of the team can dish it out.

I've run both sets in the past so I didn't really see how it could go wrong, part of my problem now is I've too many ideas and alts at the moment and it's the busy season at work ;). I took Spines to 50 on three scrappers paired with Regen, Elec and Invuln and one Ice/Fire tanker. Back on Live I had every AT but Mastermind at 50, most of them multiple times. Now I'm having problems focusing on just one long enough to get there although my Fire/EM blaster is getting close at 42 and nearly soft capped to ranged damage.

From what I've seen you need to refresh.

Also as I recall from Live you either want to have mag 4 KB protection or go all the way to 12... there was a long discussion on the old forums about it and pretty much anything that could beat Mag 4 KB would also beat Mag 8 making it of very limited utility. The thumb rule for sets without KB protection was one KB IO or go to 3 of them, don't waste money and slots on just two. Or, of course, you can go the Combat Jumping/Super Jump/Acrobatics route at the cost of another power pick and the endurance to run another toggle... not really something Dark needs.

I remember the discussion on that from Live and I do seem to recall hearing that Fly was capped out of the box. I also seem to remember that the fly speed varied with level getting faster as you got higher level. What I don't remember was any "official" commentary on the subject and I never tested it to determine if it was accurate. Most of my characters with Fly simply tossed a Freebird Stealth IO into fly and called it good.

After a lot of thought I ended up with Ice/Spine. Right now at level 16 it's too early to tell much, particularly since that came from 4 DFB runs... so basically meaningless. I'll have to run some more serious content to tell but it looks good on paper and it's fun at least in the ultra low levels. I've always liked the vice grip aggro lock of Ice so we'll see how it matures.

At least Brutes benefit by way of Fury. Scrappers, on the other hand... :o (Of course, Taunt duration outstrips Confront, so they'd be fighting a losing battle, there!) Are most tankers taking taunt now? Probably but there was a running argument in the old forums about how "I don't need no stinking taunt", more often than not by players unfamiliar with the game. Bottom line is that a tank is more effective with taunt than without it, although some sets with strong auras can get by without. Of course if it comes to grabbing that add across the room you're out of luck without it.

Well, what do you want to do with your tanker? If you want to tank for a team then I suggest skipping Willpower, it has by far the worst aggro aura of any tanker set. Shield, Ice and Invuln are all very capable in aggro with Ice being the best by a fair margin although you won't have issues with Shield or Invuln. In terms of late game IO survivability a well built Invuln is going to be tougher than Shield or Ice but any of them can handle anything the game throws at them if you play it right. I've played Shield, Invuln, Ice, Fire and Stone to 50 and all have their pluses and minuses. In raw durability terms they'd rank Stone (after level 32)......... Invuln.... Ice/Shield.. Fire on SO enhancements. With IO's the gaps close up a bit and you can argue the placings a bit but you'll still have Stone way in front with Invuln second. Of course Stone pays for that durability with poor mobility and recharge. Pick which set looks interesting to you. Shield and Fire are more damage oriented with Shield being a bit more durable (arguably, with enough investment a blaster can tank... I've proven it before). Ice with it's two aggro auras always has an unbreakable grip on aggro while Invuln is a more generic tough build without a lot of tricks. Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with the other tanker primaries to offer an informed opinion since most are new since shutdown. Willpower does have it's place; with a good build it will be highly durable, it just has problems with aggro. Since when I'm playing a tanker my primary focus is on aggro management Willpower isn't a set that I would play... and when I'm playing a squishy character I never trust a Willpower tank to hold aggro.

Admittedly Bio isn't something I'd thought of, mainly since I've never played or even really looked at the set. Hmm, a little study seems in order there.

With Spines becoming a tanker secondary I've been toying with the best synergy of primary to pair it with. One side of me says Dark/Spines but I'm not sure I'm that much of an end masochist :P I never got my Spine/Dark scrapper past 30 due to the endless ;) problems with endurance. Another part is thinking Fire for damage, or Ice for aggro (like Ice needs any more help there) What have been your experiences with Spines?

I've been thinking on what to pair with Inv this time around myself and Street Justice did come to mind. I had a Street Justice/Invuln scrapper back on live that was a blast so the sets work well together and as a bonus I know both sets. It should be a good, solid combination.

I'd go for set bonuses to get your defenses to melee, ranged & AOE to 45%, then I'd look for recharge, accuracy and endurance recovery with a fair amount of regeneration. Remember, you can only get a given set bonus a maximum of 5 times. So if you've gotten 5 bonuses of "increase recharge by 5%" and you slot another set with that bonus you'll only get 25% recharge, not 30%. Mid's /Pine will do the heavy math for you however. A set IO build can be extremely complex so it's HIGHLY recommended to work it all out there before you start buying your IO's. Mistakes once you've started shopping can get expensive. You may also want to factor cost into your build as well, it's often possible to end up with nearly the same numbers on the final build with some careful use of less expensive IO's and save hundreds of millions of inf. Back on Live my Inv/Stone tanker, Call Me Awesome, had a build that would have cost around 3 billion inf at the prices then, however the guide I wrote on building an Invuln got about 90% of the value while only costing 15 million or so in 2011 inf. It's the last 10% of the build that gets expensive. While I don't have Mid's in front of me I had a Shield/Fire tanker back then with around 50%+ defense to all, enough recovery to go full bore almost indefinitely and enough regeneration to patch up the damage that got past my defenses. Heck, I had a Broadsword/Shield scrapper with the same numbers who was capable of tanking the ITF unassisted. IO set bonuses can fill in a lot of holes, it's a question of desires vs budget.

Avoiding the numbers that I don't recall from when I saw them 7 years or so ago here's a good rule of thumb: Taunt mobs you want to control, AND also attack them. Taunt works as a multiplier for the aggro of your attack. Also, run your taunt aura and keep the mobs close to you. Some sets are better at aggro than others. Some sets have an auto hit taunt aura while some require accuracy. Off the top of my head Invuln, Ice and Shield have auto hit auras while Fire and Stone require a to hit check. Willpower is the red headed stepchild since while it's aura is auto hit it's also by far the weakest (Mag 3 vs Mag 4 for all others) and the shortest duration (1-2 seconds vs 14-17 seconds for the others). So to keep aggro use taunt and your attacks while you let your aura do some of the heavy lifting. If you really want aggro then nothing beats Ice armor on that... you get two taunt auras, one of which is auto hit with a debuff and the other puts out some damage to keep them interested. Eventually you run into the aggro cap and additional mobs won't pay attention to you without some fancy tricks but that won't be a factor until late game when your defenses are mature enough to handle that many mobs beating on you at once. It's been 6 years but I seem to recall the aggro cap is what, 15 or 16 mobs?

Here's my thoughts on the tanks I played to 50 on Live. Invuln - an absolutely unkillable god in issue 3 it remained good until IO's came about. After IO's and the ability to soft cap your defenses it again became more than up to the task of tanking anything in the game. I've rerolled my main and currently have him in the early 20's and it's quite capable in the early game on DO's and SO's. Stone - the toughest tanker around without question once you hit 32 and get Granite Armor; a bit squishy in the early game. The downside is poor mobility and being strongly pushed into Teleportation for travel. Extremely durable in the end game even on SO's and becomes unkillable by nearly anything once you get a good IO build. Fire - a bit squishy but with the highest damage output and a quick recharging heal it's quite competent throughout the game albeit not as tough as Inv or Stone. IO's can take care of the durability issue in the late game. Shield - as with all defense based sets it can take awhile to come into it's own but by the mid game and beyond it's pretty durable and becomes quite nice in the late game. Shield Charge is a fantastic opener and not only grabs a lot of attention, it also knocks mobs on their butts and does good damage. Ice - you want to be the center of attention? Well, NOTHING will steal aggro from you even if you aren't trying. Two taunt auras, one with a debut, make sure you always have all the mobs. The comments on defense sets I made with Shield also apply here so it's easy to get in over your head in the early to mid game aggro wise. Secondaries I've played are Stone Melee - very satisfying hard hitting attacks with a nice AOE stun/attention getter. The downside is a serious lack of AOE damage, with one minor damage exception the set is single target based. Lots of knockdown, stun and a High damage Mag 4 HOLD in the tier 9 attack. Downsides? Carry blues since this sucker's gonna go through your blue bar. Fire Melee - damage, AOE, more damage with a secondary effect of damage. Best paired with a durable primary. Ice Melee - minor control with minor damage. Not my favorite set. Energy Melee - all single target without any real advantages. It used to be that the Tier 8, Energy Transfer, was a fast activating high damage attack that was the sole redeeming feature of the set. Unfortunately it was deemed "too good" so the attack animation went from under 1 second to nearly 3 seconds making it worthless. Activate the attack, stare at your fists for 3 seconds, watch your team kill the mob before your attack fires off. The changes made me abandon a level 50 Stone/EM tanker. That's all I come up with offhand that I played to any significant level. Of them all my favorite was Fire Melee, I think I had 3 level 50 tanks with that. My main, Call Me Awesome was Inv/Stone and the only Stone Melee. I'm currently leveling an Inv/Broadsword and I'm debating on it. I had several level 50 Broadsword scrappers so I'm familiar with the set, I'm just not sure it synergies with Inv as well as I'd thought it might. Street Justice is a nice set that I had fun with on a scrapper and it should be a good solid option with most any tanker primary. I've been contemplating Spines since it's so AOE focused.

It's possible that Willpower's taunt aura has changed but it used to have an extremely short duration; around 1-2 seconds if I recall and it was only Magnitude 3. As a comparison the taunt aura of Invuln had a duration of around 17 seconds (don't have Mid's in front of me) and was Magnitude 4. Because of this Invuln had a VASTLY easier time holding aggro, since it didn't wear off the instant the mob moved a few feet away from you. When Willpower was ported to tankers we thought the terrible taunt aura was a bug as every other tanker primary had a Magnitude 4 taunt aura lasting at least 14 seconds. Personally I never played a Willpower tanker as it was the absolute worst at aggro management by a huge margin. I did have a Willpower brute but I didn't try to play it as a tanker. If I was on a team with a willpower tank I had to be careful as I could strip aggro from him with ease. I almost never teamed with one who could hold aggro well... and I rarely teamed with another primary that couldn't hold aggro. Ice tankers had such a lock on aggro that it was almost impossible to steal it from them no matter what they or I did.

I've tanked that many times in the past using several different methods. If I'm on a sturdy enough tank I can carry an insp loadout good enough to last the time for the team to kill the red tower. The red is the one that buffs his damage, and I think the yellow one buffs his to hit if I recall. Anyway, on an Invuln once the red tower's down tanking him is no big problem as his damage goes way down. On a more defense reliant tank I want that yellow to hit tower down ASAP as well. Flying is a valid method to tank him as well, just hover over him about 30' or so and taunt while attacking with a ranged power to keep him interested. Yes, he'll jump up and hit you occasionally but you'll be avoiding a large percentage of his damage that way, and definitely avoiding his "oh crap" massive attack. Again, I carry an insp load out to handle the situation because unless I'm running with a team I trust I figure I'm on my own to survive. By the way, here's my basic STF load out for an Invuln tank: 6 large purple 6 large orange 2-3 large green 1-2 large blue (he occasionally uses an end drain attack) That lets me tank him for 4-5 minutes with the towers up, once the red is down I can generally stop worrying about him, and once the to hit tower dies I can tank him all day without any real issues. When I've tanked with a Stone tank I use large purples until the red tower dies then I don't need anything else. Heck, unless the RNG decides to really hate me I can handle it with Granite + Rooted without any candy so it's insurance more than anything else. For a defense based tanker like Shield I carry more oranges and that's when I try to use the hover tanking method. I've no idea what your team was thinking about the flag, I do take him to the back of the platform to avoid the Flyer; it respawns at the 20 minute mark from the first player entering the mission. And the 40 minute mark, and the 60 minute mark if you're having problems. Again, you can use different techniques depending on how sturdy your tank is. If you're hard capped at 90% resistance S/L/E and have good defense then use the easy method of getting into his face and telling him his mother dresses him funny. If you're not that tough then use either movement or altitude to avoid the majority of his attacks while asking him if his mother and father ever met. I'd suggest a little practice on other mobs to refine the hover tanking method but it's not that hard, you just need to pay attention. Also, if you consistently stay out of his range you can loose aggro so be aware of that. I've only seen it happen twice but it can get ugly. Personally I've tanked that TF with Invuln, Stone, Shield & Fire tanks. Also with a Broadsword/Shield scrapper and a permanent-PA Ill/Rad troller and Phantom Army for that matter. Heck, once I "tanked" him with a blaster (Fire/Energy with Boost Range hovering about 100' over his head) and it worked as long as I kept him on the opposite side of the platform from the team. Since I almost never hit him until his defense/SB tower went down I didn't have solid aggro so I had to keep him from noticing the rest of the team. There's ways to handle him no matter what your team configuration may be. The key to that TF is to have a decent team. I had the "Master of the Statesman's Task Force" badge on 10 characters at shutdown so it's certainly doable. (In case you were wondering, that was completing the TF with the settings for no temp powers and no deaths. I recommend competent teammates who are familiar with the TF for that. The last several years we usually went for that badge on our runs if someone on the team didn't have the badge and more often than not got it.)

I seem to recall that this was changed early in the IO era due to a poorly explained interaction with the Perfect Zinger proc. I don't know that I ever got the whole story.

I kind of think it's working correctly. A taunt aura and stealth are mutually incompatible. Either you want to be hidden or you want the mob's attention.

That's what I was talking about... I hadn't noticed it back then and didn't realize it was ongoing. Of course back then Inf wasn't in short supply and rare salvage was available cheap on the market so it was a non-issue. Now with all rare salvage I've seen going for between 800,000 to a million it's more of an issue.

I'll likely be around off and on, this is getting into the busy season with work... owning a video production company that does live events across the country cuts into game time... but I'll be here as I can.

Yes, I can see the point there. It's been awhile since I made an in-depth study of the set and the current state of IO's. I had it in my mind that the Impervium Armor Psi IO was unique... I see that Pine's Hero Designer at least doesn't show it that way. It's a number of slots to find homes for in the build but I can see the value to it.

I've noticed several IO sets and individual recipes in the set that are marked "Uncommon" seem to take Rare salvage. This is a change from Live and it takes a lot of the value of the lesser IO sets away since they take the same salvage as the rare sets. The ones I've noticed so far are in the Ranged damage category and the Targeted AOE category.