Vanden
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Posts posted by Vanden
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26 minutes ago, Leogunner said:
Even if you were right, and the Brute couldn't just grab all the aggro in the span of jump in with aura + 1 AoE, they would still likely grab it with the 2nd AoE. It'd likely be the difference of allowing the Tanker to "manage" the aggro for a couple extra seconds. I don't feel that is a good trade off (lowering effectiveness of an off-tank that might have to be main tank in some groups) just so Tankers get their few seconds of fame.
Like I said, it's not about making the Tankers feel good about themselves. It's about what they bring to the team. If you invite a Tanker to your team, you know pretty much every enemy near that Tanker is going to be attacking them and not you. If you invite a Brute to your team, you know pretty much every enemy near that Brute is going to be attacking them and not you AND they'll also contribute a lot of DPS to the team. It's not a "More of A, Less of B" situation like it is with other similar ATs, it's more like "More of A, exactly as much B."
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I would prefer to see well-thought out new sets than lazy ports.
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10 minutes ago, Kimuji said:
I didn't jump to conclusions you only mentioned T1 and T2 keeping the taunt now. Though it is barely better if you're still removing it from aoes.
On the contrary the fact that you are rejecting all other options shows that I put the finger on right spot. You're more interested in nerfing Brutes into mediocre tanks (barely better then Scrappers in that role: they have a single target Taunt power and a taunt aura) than finding ways to make Tankers more appealing. Nerfing Brutes tanking abilities will not make Tankers more played.I didn't mention T1 and T2 powers because we weren't talking about specific implementations of the idea until you said I wanted to turn Brutes into Scrappers; until then it was a more abstract discussion of the idea. And I haven't rejected any other ideas, I'm just arguing the merits of this one, because like I said, if we're serious about addressing the Tanker/Brute issue, it needs to be discussed. Brutes should be worse at grabbing aggro than Tankers, tanking is the whole point of the Tanker AT. Better than Scrappers but worse than Tankers at holding aggro is exactly the place a hybrid class like Brute should be, and it's definitely not where it is.
19 minutes ago, Kimuji said:And given how many times I've seen arguements about Defenders vs Corruptors vs Controllers vs MMs, Sentinel vs Blasters, Dominators vs Controllers I maintain that making ATs side-agnostic had an effect that goes way beyond than just Brutes and Tankers.
Those arguments can be settled, because at the end of the day, all those ATs are noticeably better at something than the ATs they're being compared to.
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10 minutes ago, Kimuji said:
You're turning Brutes into Scrappers that's what it is. And Scappers don't need another variation, we have Stalkers for that. You are just about making Tankers the only tanks in the game. That's very "make the Tanker feel better about themself" to me, so no it's not psychosomatic indeed it's the futile satisfcation of being the only AT to properly fill that role.
I think you've jumped to conclusions about what exactly the changes I'd make would be. I wouldn't remove all taunt abilities from the Brute; the T1 and T2 primary powers would keep the single target taunts if it were up to me. The Taunt power itself would be unchanged. That's still a good amount of aggro management tools, the Brute just wouldn't be able to stand in a mob with a taunt aura running and throw out an AoE to grab all the aggro without even trying any more.
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8 minutes ago, Kimuji said:
If we're going that way we have to rebalance the entire game because Brutes and Tankers are not the only ATs affected by this, all ATs are. 🙄
No AT pairing is affected to the degree that Tankers and Brutes are. Defenders and Corruptors, for example: Corruptors' secondary powers are only about 75% as effective as the Defender versions. Tankers and Brutes, on the other hand, there's virtually no discernible difference in their ability to control aggro.
10 minutes ago, Kimuji said:"All that would do is make the Tanker feel better about themself", these are your own words and yet this is exactly what you're recommending. Making Tankers feel better about themselves by removing tanking tools from other ATs.
Not at all. Making Brutes less able to control aggro has a real, tangible effect on the value of a Tanker in a team, because now they're the only AT that can perform at that level. There's nothing psychosomatic about it.
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23 minutes ago, Kimuji said:
Brutes were designed like (offense oriented) tanks from the start. They've always been tanks we're not going to take that from them now. Nerfing Brutes is just as bas as giving Tankers a damage boost. It would basically turn them into high Hit Points Scappers without a critical hit chance, that's terrible. There are reasonable suggestions on this thread that won't lead to power creep. They would still be less than a drop in the ocean compared to incarnate powers and IOs.
Brutes were designed as tanks because they had to be at first, since there were no Tankers for villains to team with. Now the ATs are completely side-agnostic, and they really should be reexamined.
Nerfing Brutes' auto-taunt is not as bad as giving Tankers a damage boost, because the former makes the ATs more distinct, while the latter makes them more alike. The only difference between Brutes' and Tankers aggro generation is that on single-target attacks, the Tanker can taunt enemies around the target too. Not even the taunt values are different, and since 90% of the enemies that will be affected by this AoE taunt are going to be in range of the player character's taunt aura anyway, it's almost no difference at all. Nerfing or removing the taunt effect from Brutes' attacks would make the difference in aggro generation between the two ATs actually meaningful in practice.
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2 hours ago, Kimuji said:
I'd rather have something that makes the Tanker's active Taunt (I mean the Taunt power) override other taunt/threat sources from other ATs (so everything except other Tankers) than removing the per hit taunt ability from Brutes.
All that would do is make the Tanker feel better about themself because the enemies are attacking the Tanker and not the Brute. It wouldn’t change the fact the the Brute could hold the aggro just as well if the Tanker wasn’t there.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but if we’re serious about “addressing the Tanker/Brute conundrum” we have to at least consider the idea. We can’t just buff everything all the time, that can only lead to power creep.
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Anyone ever play Freedom Force? The speedster in that game, Bullet, had a move called Fist Fusillade. That’s what Flurry should look like. I’ll see if I can find a video of it when I’m off work.
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I’m just gonna be that guy: we should maybe consider removing or reducing the single-target taunt from Brute attacks. I think that’s the number one thing that makes Brutes step on Tankers’ toes in a team setting. Brutes would still have their high threat modifier and Taunt over Confront in their primaries, so they wouldn’t become completely useless for holding aggro, and Fury could be tweaked to build better when enemies aren’t attacking the Brute. I know this wouldn’t be popular, but I do think it would work.
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It actually isn’t called Cloaking Device any more...
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26 minutes ago, Mansome said:
So I noticed there are Attuned enhancements that are not ATO. I was told that the catalyst can make non-attuned become attuned. So if say I have a level 50 set LotG and make it attuned can an alt that is 3 levels below the minimum level LotG exists could they slot it?
Yes, although to attune it you’d have to slot it, combine it with an enhancement catalyst, and then unslot it with an unslotter. Better to sell the enhancement you have on the market and then buy an attuned one with the money from that; it’s the same price to buy unattuned and attuned.
28 minutes ago, Mansome said:My next question is if I use enhancement boosters on the same enhancements to +5 them would that be possible? Would it make it a level 55 enhancement that scales to say level 27?
Attunement and boosting are mutually exclusive. You can’t boost attuned enhancements, and attuning boosted enhancements makes them lose the boosts.
29 minutes ago, Mansome said:My next question is with ATOs if those get catalyst to turn purple would I be able to slot both the orange and purple set of the same name or does the game count the orange version and purple version as being the same?
You can’t slot both the standard and superior versions of unique enhancements.
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I kinda like how they are now. They aren't too challenging, and having at most one level shift means players who've only just started down the incarnate path can contribute nearly as much as a player with tier 4 powers in all six slots.
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I don't think "dizzy" will make sense as a way to indicate the enemy will take more damage, especially when right now it's universally used to indicate stuns or holds. The shattering armor effect makes a lot more sense in that regard.
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6 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:
Maybe, like the damage "floaters", a text announcement drifting up over the target's head, naming the proc that just went off? In a vivid purple or bright blue color, o it's really noticeable?
I don't think that's necessary. There's enough superfluous floating text already. Does the entire team really need to know, in no uncertain terms, when a Scrapper gets a critical chance bonus, or a Sentinel gets some bonus absorb?
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I've always felt like the orange damage numbers were enough of a visual indicator of damage procs going off for me.
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Many procs (mostly the control procs) have some visual FX when they activate, to let players know they've gone off. Could we possibly add one to the -Res procs? The ones in Achilles' Heel, Annihilation, and Fury of the Gladiator. Shatter Armor from the VEAT Mace Mastery pool, has a pretty good FX for this, I think; it's basically a, well, shattering sort of effect, easy to notice, but also fairly concept-agnostic. It wouldn't look weird on a mismatched character, like the electric field in the Devastation proc, or the ice block in the Blistering Cold proc. It'd be nice to know when they're working without having to watch the combat log like a hawk.
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4 hours ago, Eirwen said:
Your right on the money I think with absorb. Coming back after so many years I have been doing some solo missions to relearn my skills. I have noticed from trash mobs (minions) I have been taking no dmg. Thinking I'm older and wiser and playing better now (LOL) was not the answer, then I thought maybe they had been nerfed, BUT its as you said, the absorb points even unslotted was enough to cover their dmg. So I am not healing anywhere near as much as I did back on live. So I think i'll take 3 of the 6 slots I put normally on medicine (aid self) and make a 6 slot Frigid Protection, 3 heal/absorb 3/end mod
Well now don't forget that here on Homecoming we have much easier access to enhancement boosters and purple sets than we did on Live. You may be able to get those slots from somewhere else; for example, if, like me, you put 3 slots into Build Up and Aim for recharge, you can now get away with only two slots in each, with 50+5 common recharge IOs, for virtually identical recharge.
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On 7/29/2019 at 3:44 PM, Hopeling said:
When you figure out how to move Swift's default slot to Hover, let me know. 😉
Afterburner+Fly caps out at 87.95mph with no slotting, if you use Jump Pack. 30 seconds is usually enough time to get to the next door. This helps me feel better about rarely being able to spare slots for travel powers.
I tried using the Jump Pack with the slotting I mentioned above, and I also got the 87.95mph flight cap. I also turned on Afterburner in the first mission of Mender Ramiel's arc, while under the effects of Limitless Radial Freeeem, and the cap was again 87.95mph. Turning on the Jump Pack as well had no effect at that point. So it looks like 87.95mph is the absolute cap for flight speed, and the slotting in my earlier post gets you a mere 1.72mph short of it.
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Oh. Well there's nothing you can do to prevent Repel from Hurricane.
As for the recharge proc, besides "it would go off occasionally," I don't have an answer for you.
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Whirlwind is a toggle like any other. The only thing that sets it apart from other toggles is that it overrrides your normal idle and movement animations while it's active. And it doesn't do repel.
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1 hour ago, Heraclea said:
If mass modification of powersets or complicated mechanics that increase tanker damage are out of the question, I'd propose something different: an across the board discount for endurance costs. It's going to take the Tanker longer to defeat something, and require activating more attacks. That's the way it always has been and should be. So a tanker shouldn't spend more endurance than a brute or scrapper getting it done. This small change would make levelling a Tanker much more inviting.
When I was leveling my Tanker, fighting hard groups or targets was never a question of whether I could defeat them, but whether I'd have enough endurance to finish them off before I dropped all my toggles, so this would be nice. However, it doesn't really help the issue that Brutes can step all over Tankers' toes.
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As if the targeted AoE IO sets didn't have enough problems, the Ragnarok purple set is the only damage purple set that doesn't get a damage proc. When purples were first added to the game, the Ragnarok proc was a chance for Fire Damage AND Knockdown. For some reason, it never worked like they wanted it to (what it was supposed to do and wasn't, I have no idea), so they finally just removed the chance for Fire damage and left it only Chance for Knockdown. The powers system seems a lot more robust these days, however, so maybe it would be possible to make the Ragnarok proc the proc it was originally meant to be?
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Issue 23 was Night Ward. That, the eight incarnate trials, and the Belladonna Vetrano arc for level 50 characters are what the text is referring to.
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Addressing the Tanker Brute Connundrum.
in Suggestions & Feedback
Posted
It's what the Tanker AT is built to do, so unless we're gonna completely rework Tankers into something unrecognizable another AT shouldn't be able to do it exactly as well while also being better at damage.