Ankhammon

If you go elec/elec then try out the Energy Manipulator stun proc. I found it helps quite a bit overall. Also, throwing in a performance Shifter +end proc into Short Circuit makes the power cost very low endurance per blast.

I get what you are saying. I've had to wrap my head around the idea of controllers my self. The thing to think of when trying out a controller (early on particularly) is to remember that once you have containment then any damage you are doing outside of procs is doubled. so that held LT. is not only not doing you damage but the paltry 20 pts of damage your tier 1 immob is doing is actually 40 pts. Then there are other things to think of that isn't damage but effectively is. For instance a confuse like possess will allow you to concentrate on other bad guys and he even helps you level up. It's a strange thing but the damage he does while slightly lowering the exp per kill will actually raise your kills per minute significantly so it's a win for you as long as you hit the bad guy he's damaging at all. Then never ignore the secondary and what it can do. if you get a power like Envenome (Poison) then you are adding a bunch of -resistance which could make the previously mentioned immob to an extra 30% damage (not doing the complete math workup here guys) and now it's doing 52 damage. This might put you closing in on blaster damage. All of a sudden you see that even if you don't have a lot of things that cause damage it starts adding up quickly.

So do you want to be Luke or Han? You're confusing me. 🙂 Seriously, Gravity with propel would look very star wars. Question becomes are you light or darkside? I would think /Kin or even /Emp for light side and /Elec or /Pain for something something, dark side. I got it, C3P0 as a jedi. Just go Grav/Traps. All sorts will work for your theme really.

My poison defenders are both shelved right now for other thing I find interesting. One thing I've noticed is using presence line really improved my lot in life on Poison. I stealth rush in and fear most of the crowd which allows me time to set up my destruction of the enemy.

I've not done any experimentation on this but assuming containment you would be potentially shutting (Mids reported) 5 dps from proc damage. You'd be gaining a significant amount of containment damage (unknown really but MATH STUFF). You would also save a lot in the way of end cost of Hot Feet. I'd consider it optimal to not force in any procs on this power. I'd be looking at 4 Multi-Strike and 2 Oblit assuming the slots were available. It would give 148.4% acc, 20.23 dps (no procs) and end cost down to 0.52. More manageable and all damage would be containable. plus some resistances to add to your totals in bonuses which look decent to me. MATH STUFF: Decently proc'd out with 3 procs 17.24(containable damage)*2(containment)*10(activations per period)+2*8(assumes getting all procs at first and 10th second)=360.6ish Slotting from above and assuming Containment 20.23*2(containment)*10(activations per period)=404.6 slotting for containment shows a higher total on paper but dunno in game.

So science characters have an inherent flaw?

Time/Elec is incredibly fun. when you get em to 0 end and they do the 6 million dollar man version of runnoft... it's just huge giggles. Time/Ice is just a beast. Only note is to remember if you put procs into Times Juncture it's gonna take a tank to get aggro off you and some-days you will go boom. But other than that you can be anything the team needs or wants in one place. I prefer that setup with Dark Mastery so you can add some more controls for the large crowds you will be in... and I love Soul Transfer when you do occasionally fall.

On a fully tricked out Nature defender you can conceivably hit the damage cap for yourself. Yes you will need assault to get there if I remember my Naff/DP build but even that was iffy because I was sacrificing other stuff to get to it. My current build has 217.5% damage with overgrowth up and solo and all sortsa stuff thrown in. Funny enough, I'm still not damaged capped cuz I got lots of procs in my damage powers. It gets easier to touch the cap with such powers as pbu and aim involved. but you would prolly have another secondary for this.

Just to clarify, I was never asking for a damage increase, just looking at increasing the cap to max targets which was based on my feelz over levels 20-35. I seem to get into the same cookie cutter gotta take fighting pool to get survival up and then it takes 2.4 yrs to bring down a group before moving on to the next (would I exaggerate?). I thought perhaps that an increase in max targets could alleviate the need to fighting pool it and leave me a few extra slots for damage.

If that's what it is, then i rescind the whole thing. I was basing all of this supposition on what I could see in game. Can't base a critique on faulty info. I wasn't looking at mids.

Not really arguing here Bill, just trying to sort things out in my head. Here's another couple examples for you: Dark Blast tents listed at base damage for Corrupters at 77.99 and for Defenders it's 33.80. That's more than twice the damage and I'm keeping any kind of procs out of it cuz it should be equal across the board. Secondary effects are 3 mag immob for 12 seconds and -7.5% tohit for vs 3 mag immob for 15 seconds and -9.38% tohit for defenders. Beam rifle single shot is 108.44 vs 57.83. secondary effects 20% chance of 0.67 kb and -75% regen for 10 seconds for both sides. If we assume solo the damage for those goes up to 43.94 for tents and 75.179 for single shot. I'm not sure how to qualify this simply because it's part of the inherent and only applicable for solo. Sure, super tricked out can take advantage of this by being actually self sufficient defensively but most of the time building up a defender isn't in that zone. I'd also argue that fire might be skirting the issue since those damage dots will flatten out the curve. Do you know if those dots are scaling with base damage or are they independent? I honestly don't know. What I do know if my defender gets a whiff of more than 16 baddies attention he's gotta hit the oh S*** button or faceplant in short time. And Psyonico, sure if you are talking about a 20% bump on like flash arrow, that's a very significant boost but when you look overall at the blast sets then it becomes a few ticks (see above) and doesn't seem to match up with the potential damage increases we see on the Corrupter side. I know "overall" is the point and not just the blast sets but for most defenders the reality of life while leveling up is stay on a team or get used to fighting at base level or maybe something like 0/+3. Sometime I just don't feel super on a solo Defender when most other ATs do. Think I might try out one of my favorite defender (Time/Elec) as a corrupter and see how he feels in his 20s.

It seems to me that this statement is supposed to be at least somewhat true. The reason I ask is that there seems to be an opportunity to improve the lot in life for Defenders and make them more attractive as an AT than they currently are. In the current state of the game, defenders get a very small bump to their debuffs and buffs over their Corruptor counterparts. They also get a modest damage increase to their own base while solo or an end discount on teams if they let their team maintain some damage to themselves (ie. don't let them heal fully). The other side, gets a substantial increase to their damage to not only their base damage, but their damage cap and their inherent (scourge). IMO, this does not seem to be an equal exchange and it's always kind of bugged me. Now I know that there has been many a discussion from the forums on if this needs fixing or how to make things better. Looking at the Tank changes from a while back, it gives me an idea that might do much to make the defender seem more of a defender and help to make them feel different and not just a lesser damaging corrupter. My idea is that we take the existing powers and just increase the max targets and perhaps their area of effects. Same values but more targets affected. An example of this can be seen in Elec. Blast, the current pbaoe for short circuit is 20 range and 16 target max for both ATs. What if it hit 24 targets on a defender and increased the range to like 24? I'm making up those values, but it would help shore up the damage issue overall but leave the defender with a different feel. It also potentially helps the team a bit more. Would this be enough to make the Defender feel like it offers a unique place in the pantheon? Maybe not, but I think it might go a good deal of the way to helping this. I might also say they could use some sort of a bump to their debuffs against AV levels and Monsters but I have no real idea how to accomplish this. What do you all think?

I hear ya guys, Concealment line is not worth what I'm giving up. Thinking it through... If I give up on any concealment power other than Phase Shift, I can't get containment so I end up with either Stealth for some more defense or Infiltration for lots of speed and jumping. And I could get water burst for some damage and more recharge plus some control. also I could then get TI for s/l resistances (which I could use half the time). Or just swap out Phase Shift for Water Burst. I might just do the swap of steam spray for water burst then I get rech/control while giving up some damage. Not a bad trade. Decisions, decisions.

I'm leveling up a Traps/H2O and I'm a bit stuck on which would be a better choice. The recharge on Misdirection seems pretty high, but I can take it down into the 80 second recharge level. It's biggest plus is the tasty -res on top of all the aoe damages I got going on. The Water Burst does do a kup which I could leverage with another FF proc giving even more recharge which is handy for my FoN in particular and will get me a few ticks closer to perma when tagged along with Rune of Prot. It'll still be down a significant amount of time though. I figure I could get it to like 3 minutes on and 2 minutes off. What would you do? Here's a look at the build I'm sorting out. Please ignore the power placement as I'm just working on powers to take and IOing them. I'll do the full build later. As always, any input is appreciated. This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5 https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Defender Primary Power Set: Traps Secondary Power Set: Water Blast Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Concealment Power Pool: Sorcery Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Caltrops -- SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(3), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(3), IceMisTrmt-+ColdDmg(7) Level 1: Aqua Bolt -- Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Rchg(43) Level 2: Triage Beacon -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(9) Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7) Level 6: Acid Mortar -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(42) Level 8: Force Field Generator -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(11), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(11), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37), Rct-ResDam%(37) Level 10: Whirlpool -- PstBls-Dam%(A), ImpSwf-Dmg/Slow(13), ImpSwf-Dam%(13), IceMisTrmt-Dam/Slow(17), IceMisTrmt-+ColdDmg(19) Level 12: Poison Trap -- UnbCns-Dam%(A), UnbCns-Hold(15), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(15), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(21) Level 14: Infiltration -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(46), BlsoftheZ-Travel(46), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(50) Level 16: Tidal Forces -- RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(A), RctRtc-ToHit(17) Level 18: Seeker Drones -- CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19), CldSns-ToHitDeb(33) Level 20: Dehydrate -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), ThfofEss-Acc/Heal(23), ThfofEss-Heal(50) Level 22: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(34) Level 24: Misdirection -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25) Level 26: Trip Mine -- Arm-Dam%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(27), Erd-%Dam(27), ScrDrv-Dam%(31), Obl-Dmg(43), Obl-%Dam(43) Level 28: Water Jet -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(33) Level 30: Arcane Bolt -- Apc-Dam%(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg(31), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), FrcFdb-Rechg%(50) Level 32: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A) Level 35: Steam Spray -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(36), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(36), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), PstBls-Dam%(37) Level 38: Geyser -- IceMisTrmt-Dam/Slow(A), ImpSwf-Dmg/Slow(39), IceMisTrmt-Acc/Dam/End(39), IceMisTrmt-+ColdDmg(39), ImpSwf-Dam%(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40) Level 41: Power Build Up -- AdjTrg-Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(42), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(42) Level 44: Force of Nature -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(45), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), UnbGrd-Max HP%(46) Level 47: Rune of Protection -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(48), ResDam-I(48), ResDam-I(48) Level 49: Phase Shift -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(5) Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(5) Level 1: Combo Level 1 Level 1: Combo Level 2 Level 1: Combo Level 3 Level 30: Arcane Power Level 50: Portal Jockey Level 50: Task Force Commander Level 50: The Atlas Medallion Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement Level 50: Agility Core Paragon ------------

The problem with the fears in Presence line is they don't get a -tohit debuff like all the other fear powers. I used the pool to pretty good success on a poison/Psy defender a while back. Stealth in, fears, jump out and Psy Scream+Neurotoxic Breath would keep the damage to a small amount while I debuffed and damaged to my hearts content. (Honestly, would prolly have been a better corrupter) That said, someone once did the math and the tremble stance actually did make a difference on incoming damage even though they still fire back.

1 pt for Thrax

elec/*/power is getting a second look by me. the end drains are nice, but with the stun proc in Galvanic Sent. and total focus you are stunning a lot. Also Energizing circuit spam on top of force of nature when adding in faraday cage would be closing in on perma resistance with not much of an end crash due to energizing circuit giving you 60ish end when you crash. Hmmm, does pbu do anything for amp up?

yeah, good points. I've just always ignored AR since a friend of mine unloaded full auto from his blaster into my sonic defender and it tickled. 🙂

Just wondering what the fandom thinks would be a good way for a fender/rupter to leverage this power to it's best. What combo would you choose and what about it would make you want an AR char? I can think of two that I would want to try Poison and TA. both of these have options to hold something in place while you ignite it for loads of damage. What you all think?

Time is prolly the right choice, but I think a well build elec/elec/Dark would be pretty sturdy and easy to run. Energy Manipulator stun procs loaded liberally, load up oppressive gloom and now everything up to boss level is stunned around you while you sap their endurance. Insulating Circuit up every 8 seconds or so leaving you with lots of HP pool to last through the initial sapping stages. Then again TA/Dark is pretty solid also.... Defenders are OP. 🙂

Dark/Dark/Soul defender. You get shadowfall+SS for inviso power. Fluffy to tank/debuff. You can Fearsome Stare (huge -tohit), torrent (throw em in a corner), tent (immob), darkpit/howling twilight (stun to boss level) all with power boost running to floor 90% of incoming damage for the team. If that fails you can blackstar em for big damage and huuuuuuge -tohit. Then throw in a Twilight Grasp for some minor healing (actually can heal for a decent amount) and fluffy healing too. so you can leadership if you like or sprinkle in some Teleport stuff and that will set it all up. Bonus, you can take Black Hole for when all else fails option to intangable the biggest baddies while team recovers.

I don't know how viable it is to stand toe to toe with the AV crowd, but something to consider is the fighting pool. I took all 3 melee damage powers on em and they did a good job of keeping stuff floored on end one I drained em. Kinda fun actually. Anyone ever crunch the numbers on "Fatigue"?

I'm a fan of the chem rounds. the -dam is really very strong when keeping yourself or your team alive. I coupled it with Nat. Aff. for even more -dam fun and i can tell you that as long as you don't get mezzed you feel like a tank with that combo. It is playing the long game, but proc's for most damage and an alternate source of +Dam (Like the tier 9 from Naff and/or soul drain) and you are near the damage cap for defenders so you feel pretty strong in battle all the way around. You are near enough that one Damage IO will get you within like 10-25% short. With that setup HoB fires off like a proper nuke doing like 600-650 damage (solo vs. team damage ish). Yeah, incendiary will go off for like 700 or so but I prefer the 25% -Dam. Honestly, there are other setups like Time/ that can probably do more DP, but I was in the mood to see what I could do with -Dam.

Did you ever level that up to get the pbaoe hold? Sounds like it would be a hoot with the shockwave. Knock em down and by the time they stand back up they are held.

NA/ is a great primary overall and matches with a lot of primaries. The biggest advice for playing one is to make sure you have Break Frees at all times so you can break free from the mezes that are a part of life for most defenders. As to what to match with it really kind of depends on your playstyle. I've always found the best thing to do is to look at the secondary effects of the blast set and see what matches well with what your primary is doing. for instance, I have a NA/Dual Pistol that provides loads of protection through -Damage for your team as well as your self. That combo can do a lot toward making your character a debuff engine as well as a buffer. One that might work out pretty ok would be taking /elec as the secondary. There is a proc you can get for end draining powers (all of elec) that can place a mag 2 stun on baddies. I don't know if it would work real well, but you could conceivably jump in with hold pbaoe and fire off your aoe elec powers to stun and then drain their endurance to your hearts content. In theory, they would be stunned or held long enough for you to drain the rest of their endurance. The hold would keep working to stop many of them from running away while your team blew them up.