WindDemon21

Ok so as it stands now it's back to 10 targets, but still only procs a patch every 10 seconds instead of every 5? Do the patches now last 20 seconds (bad in lots of play versus other suggestions below) or was the damage doubled? Because again, the damage is already half of any other damage aura on one patch alone. Which is already absurd cause even with 2 it should do MORE damage than an aura since it's a melee sets damage toggle. Personally, its already an annoying issue that you have to wait for 5 seconds just to equal the damage of other toggle auras by double stacking the patches, let alone the annoyance of it when you move around in a mob and lose it. At this point again, unless it becomes advantageous to have it as patches like it is on live, please just change it to work like any other standard damage toggle (which should again be I think 25% more damage since in a melee set, or maybe same damage as other auras, but guarantee contamination on all targets hit which btw, this change also means it'll contaminate less often without these other fixes I'm mentioning) As a patch power too, don't forget it means it'll miss lots of buffs like build up when used unless you always somehow time build up RIGHT before a patch is layed down. Another detriment to it being a patch power without the advantages it currently has on live.

Maybe, guess wording, punctuation, and the like is causing most of this confusion. Regardless, if a new player picks the tier 2 it's still not much to get to level 2 to pick up the tier 1. And while its been 18 years I do remember no matter what wanting to get to level 2 at least when trying a game out to see what it's like, so I don't think it would cause any new player to quit before reaching level 2.

You said you agreed with parabola, who said they thought it would be bad for inexperienced players who would pick the tier 2 instead of the tier 1 and feel they were waiting too long to attack again. You then said they could address it early (ie meaning respec or leveling to 2) Im glad you agree on the change but think you were confused on what parabola said lol. As I gather parabola stated they were against it for *new* players. But I mean, that's still so low and addressed by level 2 anyhow, I think all that would be needed is a help text stating it being the *suggested* first option for a new player.

Well if they kept the +5 powers would mean you'd have your tier 7 secondary and tier 8 primary for synapse. Would help a little for it.

Well the sets are much worse too but at least cleave or Pendulum being taoe wouldn't be the worst but not both. And yes its because specifically that its centered around the target IF the radius isn’t big enough. Which when they're centered around you, which they would be especially with cyclone, the radius would need to be about 10ft to hit those on the other side of you from your target as well. I can make a diagram when I'm home if needed but yes it's mostly cause they have too small of a radius. And since the aoe at that point is that they're getting hit by the Shockwave and not the actual physical weapon, there is no reason it couldn't be 10ft radius thematically as well.

It does if you're blinded. The sets are worse too. But thr main issue is the RADIUS. If it was 10ft it wouldn't be as bad, but 7, and esp 6 is WAY worse because they dont gather around your target, they gather around you. Even the pull in of cyclone does around you and not the target. Consistently why I've abandoned stj on scrappers time and time again.

Exactly even more reason they should have more kb protection than most. Wish while they're at it they'd finally fix the energizes down to 60s base rech as well. 2 minutes is and has always been too long for them esp with the buffs lasting only 30s. Takes everything in the build to get close to perma-ing them and the heal/regen values still aren't that superior.

While you're at it, make sure it's changed to a pbaoe power like it's animation suggests.

Exactly, and why is it still the god awful targeted aoe and not pbaoe like it should and like it's animation is as well. As to the pull-in seeming buggy, ive noticed testing sing with my grav/storm, that the pull-in does not work when the enemy is knocked down, and waits for them to be standing to start pulling again. Which is odd, cause repel, which is just the same but opposite direction, does not have this problem. Would be nice if that was fixed for both.

So they still take it. No one is forcing you to skip the tier 1, but we WERE forced to TAKE the tier 1 before. More options are always better. Still wishing we can choose the first 3 tiers from the primary at level 1 and pools opened at 2. Would also help solve other issues I mentioned ealier, such as mind/grav control, blap builds etc.

I'd be all for that, they just seem to be really withholding when it comes to "multi-selection" options. Actually isn't PB on sents the only case for this? I'd honestly like to see this be the case for all knockback powers in the game having instead an knockdown version you can choose and not having to waste a slot on a kb-kd.

It also needs to be noted, that each IG patch does HALF of a standard aoe toggle's damage. So it's really a quadruple nerf. Cause IG's damage, only equaled a standard aoe toggle's damage when you would get 2 patches of it going at the same time by standing in place for 10 seconds. It also loses damage buffs as it sits there, most notably, that of fury. This whole thing is just ridiculously dumb that they're even nerfing the power. It's nice procced, but pretty much WAY crappier than a standard damage aura without them in about every regard. If they don't revert this nerf, I'm just straight up going to request they just make it a standard damage aura.

Definitely not. One of the best parts about repulsion field is it's ability to keep them away from you, without being too wide that you have to be super careful about how you are entering the mob and flinging them where you don't want them. And if you kb-kd it, the proccing isn't so great anyway to warrant that. What it does need to alleviate both, is just grant it a 25ft (same as dispersion) slow radius with a good bit of slow. That way, they aren't getting to you as fast, and when they do they get flung. Pff, still kinda really does need changed, or at least tweaked. Bar none it needs it's cast time reduced to like .5s. But I wouldn't be against it changing 100% altogether. Same goes for detention field. I gather it might have the slightest use for like, what two incarnate tfs? But other than that the power has always been crud. It should be swapped to a hold at least, or ditched altogether for the big hami-like bubble that I suggested, which is also kinda what they're trying to make force bubble. Instead, swap detention field for the location debuff of -damage/-resist/-speed/-rech/-regen (if not added to force bolt), basically our version of the hami goo. Regarding PFF, again, reduce the cast time, but maybe make it a low end toggle that works like stealth, where if you don't attack for x amount of time, you get re-invincibled. And force bolt, it's ok, but the knockback should still be changed to knockdown. Some might like it, but TOO much of a vast majority of us hate the power with it's knockback, especially if trying to use it for the debuff now, and NEEDING to put a kd-kb in it gets super annoying for it's base use). It would also make sense to have some -regen added to it for AVs as well if it's not added to the new "hami bubble" location power suggested above. Force bubble, again, please keep it as is, maybe add a slow aura to it's radius, Dispersion bubble, good change, but adding proccing absorb would REALLY go far to boost the power especially if that absorb can linger it's 15 seconds when people exit it)

Or stacking like getting multiple earthquakes on you etc. I think a big point here, is that, I wouldn't consider even .00001% chance that fire/dark/elec armor having kb protection would go anywhere near making them even the slightest bit OP from their current form. Just negates some annoyance but that's it, certainly nothing to keep fearing of making the sets OP. That said, PLEASE still fix all versions of consume per my post earlier. 3 minutes base is ridiculous dumb. Should be 60s and extend the recovery to be more on the first target and last at least 30s (with the 60s base rech) Every other similar power is 60, and is autohit to boot. The pitiful damage that consume does does not need to factor into ruining it's base use for end gain. (and the end/-rec resistance, those other sets get that too so I don't want to hear anyone try to argue that)

That change made it aoe, but not pbaoe. The upgrades are already aoe, but they are TARGETTED aoe. So you can only cast the upgrades when you're targetting a pet, which is horridly annoying to do when you're waiting for them to get up. target them mid battle, wait for them to not be intangible for the buff to be cast etc. With it as a pbaoe buff where you don't have to target the pets, you could then cast the aoe upgrades without needing to target the pet which would make getting them up MUCH smoother. (since they're still kinda stupidly not just auto into the pets and not even need taken as a power...)

Then it should be in the EPIC as fire breath, but not as a craptastic power in the melee where the set REALLY needs combustion in it's place. After abandoning 3 fire scraps over the course of the game due to the lack of aoe, and for how terrible breath is for aoe, this is not where they need to be "thematic" at the cost of actual play for the set. And the set has five other single targets, it doesn't need breath changed into a kinda more ST oriented attack only for AVs. Swap it to combustion, and done. If theme is still part of their need and needs to be melee, they can make a tank, but on non-tanks, it NEEDS swapped for combustion. Also, as combustion is kinda like, you know, an explosion, it should also really have a kd effect too, which would also help fire melee's lack of mitigation as well (all version should be like this including blasters and dominators). Faster casting combustion with knockdown instead of breath of fire in ANY iteration of it that the devs would do? yes please. While on this thread too: Scorch should really have it's cast time lowered to .67 or .83s. It's 1s cast time especially compared to the rest of the sets ST attacks, just kinda makes it really pathetic especially as it has no other useful value (upping to 4s rech is more than fine to average out it's dps too).

Breath of fire needs replaced with combustion on non tanks. There is no question on this IMHO. The additional debuffs on some attacks are nice, but I never thought damage was lacking on it's ST but some tweaks were needed. That said, it's the lack of any type of supportive help where I'd find it needed the most improvement outside of combustion swapping for breath.

I'm with you there. The 20s and 30s are my favorite spots in the game, but it'll still be nice to do those with more fun powers. More of the issue, is that you outlevel those. I even stop dxp, and often shut off exp to finish contacts etc. I'd rather instead, see you NOT be able to outlevel those contacts, and instead it'll just auto exemp you to the max level of the contact, and other strategies like this to combat the issue. But the waiting so long for some powers esp the secondary tier 8/9s was always a chore.

And now that we can skip jab too I can FINALLY make my super strength tank! yay.

Generally, what this helps a lot, is trying to avoid being FORCED to take powers one does not want. In general that's still one of the biggest annoyances, obv especially with pool powers like fighting.

Exactly, hence, another situation, where we should be able to pick the first 3 primaries of the tier 1 as well, and pool powers open at 2.

Personally I don't like the idea of it having a wider area, because then you have to be more careful where it's hitting as opposed to it being a safe backup. A dispersion radius slow makes sense, and then maybe even increase it's proc rate.

Can we also do this with bonfire and the like too please

Joke's aside, I'd still like to see the first 3 tiers of the primary open as an option as well. Again, this especially concerns mind and grav control who can't get their ST hold first and are forced to take powers they don't want, which is even more odd for it being the primary compared to almost all other sets that don't have this problem. Even elec control, focusing on draining a single target with jolting chain instead, I can see use to skip the single target hold and immobilize both so would also be useful. Archery blasters, snap shot and aimed shot are still really poor. Skip both, yes please. Additionally, in these types of scenarios, it would be nice to be able to open pool powers at levels instead of level 4 as well. Example: Recently did a seismic/fire blaster, focusing on blapping. Therefore, did not take rock shards. So after taking shatter, and fire sword. He was forced to take ring of fire at level 2, because he couldn't take a pool power, and was skipping encase, and rock shards. This is exactly where opening up a pool power at level 2 would save the build from being forced into one of those 3 powers he does not want to take. I could see /storm secondaries not wanting gale + 02 boost both, but not wanting another primary at level 2 as well being helped out by pool powers being open at level 2. And I mean, nothing is going to be OP by having a pool power at level 2 instead of level 4.

Thanks for starting this thread I was about to. This is a TERRIBLE change, which again, screws over most any other playstyle that's not farmers just to try and nerf them. It's unwarranted, and unneeded. To someone who mentioned about "proccing fury/achilles more often" don't forget, that those debuffs do not stack from the same source as well. So if it means it more accurately placed them fine. Even with that, the power has been more than fine as it is. You also have to factor, that you have to wait for it to be layed down, and then, it's severely underpowered even in it's current form UNTIL that 2nd patch gets placed down. Then you also have to factor that that happens even less in normal play when you're moving around the mob a lot. This is 100% a terrible change that hurts the rest of the game, just at an attempt to nerf farming. Also keep in mind, as a pseudopet that it creates, it doesn't gain the benefit of crits and the extra crit chance from the ato proc, and on tankers, it also does not get the increased radius as well. The power has it's own problems easily, and should be left alone. If it's going to have this much vast nerfs, then I'd honestly rather it be just changed to a simple damage aura like quills/ icicles/lighting field etc.