WindDemon21

You're missing the point. The equivalent -regen can be anywhere in the pets, but the main thing is, key factors should NOT be tied in the MM attacks. One of the best things about MMs, is if you choose you can skip them, and do a playstyle actually focused on the pets and busier support sets. This is an area that really takes a hit on that, especially given the MM end costs. The MM attacks, should be worthwhile on their own outright, but not key to the set for something like the -regen that used to be in the bots attacks. Again, merge it between all of the pets, end up with less -regen overall that what is on live which is going to happen anyway, but do not change it to the MM attacks INSTEAD of the bots.

Ah ok thanks, however, the rest of the point still stands. (that only changes the average -regen from live to about 650% average, so this version is still a nerf, and one hell of one to those who are too busy or skip the MM attacks. Please move the -regen back to the pets.

This reads as the 30% chance is for the knockback, not the -regen. Even with that being so, in any regard, PLEASE keep the -regen in the pets and NOT the MM attacks. Especially in the aoe for something that is mostly only useful against a single target? c'mon. And even if it is 30% chance, on the one 4s rech, even though his other attacks you can still pretty much guarantee that he'll use it enough in 30s to perma that 500% -regen.

And just for reference, the only place that -regen ever really matters, is against AVs. And ESPECIALLY on mm end costs, you can NOT expect us to spam photon grenade on a single target for the -regen.... Please fix the -regen back into the bots...

I wouldn't even mind a scaled debuff, something like, 50% from each minnion bot, 150% from the lt bots, and 300% from the assault bot. (totalling 750). Edit: just for reference, you currently get -1000% from live bots from the assault bot.

Yup, it's abhorrid. Especially on busy sets like storm, elec affinity etc. Please, even if spread through the other bots, and lowered to maybe 750% -regen (or heck even 500%), but keep it in the pets. The attacks should be useful in their own right for damage and not kill your end. They shouldn't tie an existing essential mechanic into them and steal it from the pets for those, MANY who choose/do not want to take the MM attacks, again, especially for those busy secondaries and such.

Shoulda quoted this in my just a second ago post, but, the smaller size is not better on it's own when you know what you're doing. HOWEVER, the smaller size WITH the -speed added to dampening field, would be better. It would be a BIG help, to making these powers synergize better together to help offset the loss of force bubble. (that said, some -speed to repulsion fields aura wouldn't hurt either to to make it's "keep off me" work better too. It woudln't have to be as strong as what I'm suggesting for dampening field 'quicksand/tar patch levels') Again, that's all for positioning to help make up for the loss of force bubble. The power itself still feels somewhat anemic at that recharge, and still suggest the ticcing absorb be added. It woudln't have to be anything of an overpowering value, but enough to make a difference, and allow slotting in the heal sets for some end reduction, rech, bonuses etc. (edit: for stats most would deem useful, and not situational, and we'd all be in agreement, the slow sets for this, are just awful too)

You did? I didn't see it but definitely did too lol,. Also side note hoping, nay PRAYING they add it to tornado which makes sense it should have it anyway, As I've stated again, what it is now, just isn't enough as a tier 9, but also per it's recharge. If its going to remain as it is I'd say easily to at least lower it's base recharge down to 60s or even lower, working like disruption arrow. But bar none, if it had the ticcing absorption, and also, maybe even MORE importantly tbh, adding a hefty -speed/jump/tp/fly to it, would value it a lot more, especially with the current repulsion field. Because then, it helps keep the mobs in place better, while you use the, now MUCH smaller radius of repulsion field's repel, to push them towards the center (versus having the slow in repulsion field's aura itself). This is why, hurricane on it's own, is REALLY bad trying to manuever a mob, because they run around you changing the directional vector of the repel, and constantly getting spread around before the pulsing tic applies and wears off. This is why you NEED slows from snow storm/freezing rain, or an aoe immobilize in the case of controllers, to keep them from moving around WHILE you position them where you want to with the repel. Hence again, add -speed/fly/jump/tp to it, and some ticcing absorb. Though, I'd forgo the absorb IF it got that singularity pull in too :P, though generally, the absorb with the slow added would make the power about perfect.

I haven't tested that yet, almost too afraid cause i know it's nice on melee, but if it turns into what the blaster version lists for, it's going to suck so bad :/.

I woudln't even mind if say maybe, it went from 500% to 400% total, as long as it's still between the bots, but it should not be in the MM attacks especially with their end costs.

Been busy with other changes, but gotta say not a fan of the -regen moved to the attacks, wish it would still be in the bots, even if spread out among them to equal the same amount. Going to be very end costly to try to keep that regen on with all 3 attacks, otherwise it's a -regen nerf too.

I mean, that entirely depends how you play with it. With kb-kd, and no repel then, and lessened chance of knockdown (unless ARE they making it the same kd chance then and not nerfed chance with this change?) Cause otherwise, the kd chance with a kb-kd in repulsion field is fairly poor, especially with the radius of the kb aura (not repel) So it would suck to lose both the repel, and then only have a small radius of kd with much less chance to do that kd. Again depends how you use it, but that's what sucks most about this change. You can't use repulsion AS the small radius kd if you want, AND have the aoe repel from force bubble. So you kinda get screwed either way. Kinda making it really only valualabe WITHOUT the kb-kd, either as a keep away power, or to use like hurricane to position the mobs.

Which is still a loss lol. A radius loss.

*chants* PULL IN PULL IN PULL IN *chants* XD Also, as a tier 9, for that ALL it's doing as well TBQFH it's not enough, is too late, and recharge is too long for that being all it does. As mentioned, pulsing absorb would be best to add to the power, maybe some -damage/-speed, that and maybe add the pull in but i woudln't hold my breath on the pull in with it's big radius. But absorb, -speed, and -damage definitely. (I'd say, at minimum though the absorb, and the -speed). The -speed, cause with repulsion field, it's easier/better for that slow in a field that you can "kiss" with the repel versus the slow in the repel, only working when you're actively on them with it. It's good for protection to have the -speed in repulsion field, but better for field control to have it in the location power. So absorb, and -speed (like quicksand/tar patch levels) at minimum should be added.

Ok huzzah! but sad it's not this one lol. I'd eye up again all pets in game should be your level as well. That purple patch is just too harsh end game. And yeah, given curent issues anyway, I'd honestly not bat an eye at any pet that's lower than your level being OVERPOWERED when at your level, they simply won't suck AS MUCH lol. I can't imagine any pet being too strong just by the level bump (or even whole sets of them ie MM's. Like you could honestly roll it out to test, and see that nothing more needed nerfed as a result I could guarantee) Edit: of course now the ever-present batltle, of wanting to play with the new goodies, but also wanting to wait till MMs are fixed in general lol.

Ughhh :/. If we're so sure of that, is there an eta then of when this is hitting live then that i missed? I feel like these beta discussion just started last week. Seems awful for a whole page to go live.

That was with the numbers tested, I just simplified the actual damage per tic for the explanation. Again, it was expressing how at BEST its still al ittle under value, and at worst, which is the most common, it's far less.

So maybe, as is with some -speed, and absorb added, maybe -damage (depending on values of those of course, with the proccing absorb being the big useful addition, and -speed being of a good value, could even do without the -damage, but even if it was like 10%, would still be a nice little addtion to help)

Knowing how those -special powers work and how many things it actually affects in useful situations though, no not really lol. Why it needs something more like I suggested above. That -special/resistance can be nice to have there sure, but it's not enough on it's own, especially not at those values. I could maybe see the absorb going there as well if not in dispersion bubble. Give it a good spot to slot some heal sets for recharge too.

I know that there are lots of other changes needed down the line for MMs, but on top of making the upgrades a pbaoe power instead of a targetted aoe, how hard would it be to bump all pets in the game to your same level, cause that's always been one of the first steps to fixing MMs (and all pets like imps/gremlins too). I feel like regardless of individual MM set changes, this is the standard first step that should be easy to understand and implement (outside of coding, can't recall on that).

As I've said, basically, even with build up, let's say you jump in, a patch drops mid-jump, and when you land you use build up. That means that there is approximately 4.5s where NO patch is on the mobs, wasting 4.5 seconds of that build up in regards to the patch. That also means, that it's only boosting, the other 5.5 seconds, of HALF it's damage, as it only reaches standard damage after 2 patches. So in this scenario, a damage aura and it at best case scenario of jumping in using build up as soon as you land, and you get the first damage aura tic, and a first IG patch lays down. For ease of discussion, will say each "standard" damage is 10 per proc for the damage aura, and ie would be 5 for the patch: Damage toggle: 100% base + 100% enhanced + 100% from build up: Means over those 10 seconds, thats 150 damage. (10 x 300% x 5 tics) IG: patch casts right as you use build up: 15 x 5tics = 75 for first patch, second patch at 5s, casts = 15 (5s) + 15 (7s) + 15 (9s) = 45. Total damage = 120. This means at BEST case scenario, it's doing 80% damage compared to if it was a regular damage aura. However, that is at the 100% best case. In most play, when moving around, even if just for the start of a fight, it's going to be even less of a value. Even looking at the same fight, not using build up, only this time, both the regular aura, and patch, starts .5s before jumping, no build up: Toggle: 20 damage, ticcing at 1.5s, 3.5, 5.5, 7.5, 9.5s = 200 damage IG: First patch at 4.5s: 10 damage at 4.5s, 6.5 8.5 = 60 damage Second patch at 9.5s = 20 damage This means, in the worst case over those first 10 seconds it's only 40% of the damage versus if it was a standard toggle in those first 10 seconds. So obviously, let's say you jump in in the worst scenario, and stay for 20s, that 40% would be closer to 60% and so forth, but again, that depends if the fight stays there that entire time and doens't move. This is also just figuring, you jump in, and stay there the whole time and don't move. ANY time you move around the battlefield, it only gets worse from there. So at best, 80% of the damage it should do, at worst (of still standing there) 40% of the damage it should do, and at WORST WORST even given maybe the one patch tics a few others where you were, maybe, roundabout guess 25% value? Now as you sit there longer, of course it starts going up in percent, but you always will have lost that first 10 seconds of effectiveness too so it will never be at full damage compared to standard damage toggle. You may *think* it's fine for yourself but the numbers do not lie in actual combat. And at average most gameplay it's only doing about maybe 50-75% damage of what it should do. Also note further testing, any damage boosts, be it build up, fury, or inspirations, wear off after the first 2 tics of the patches, so the value from that is even less yet again. THIS POWER IS NOT OK AS IS ON BETA.

Cause its not slow, its only lowering the speed BOOSTS of the enemies. Which again, is really, kinda poor for most things. This power needs more oomph as I've stated above.

Regarding what I said, again don't forget about how it interacts with build up too, but just the sheer discontinuity of how little it does in any fight that you aren't just standing in one place the entire time. This alone makes it pretty bad as I've recently mentioned without at least offering better damage in the long run and other stuff. Since they can now differentiate which patch gets the proc, I'd say at least a start to fixing that may be also to at least have it proc a patch every 2 seconds (proc every 5th patch) and have it do 20% instead of 50% damage). Same damage output but actually matters more often, and would contaminate more. (def debuff could go down a little given more patches). In any regard though, in most normal gameplay, it's still much worse than a standard damage toggle. Dont forget, even if you're standing there post 10 seconds, that you'll have always missed that initial 5-10s worth of lost damage, so that should always be calculated, and that's even in it's best case scenario of like a long duration AV fight. Again, in most standard play, its pretty horrid by comparison when you move around a fight.

But that's what I just pointed out. It doesn't do more EVER, until both patches are layed down. and always does less when build up and other buffs are involved. So at BEST it's equal to damage auras after standing there for a minimum of 5 seconds, to a maximum of 10 seconds. This is NOT fine as is without being compensated elsewhere.(and that tiny defense debuff is not it btw). The power easily needs that 50% damage increase.

Except, in most normal play, this never actually factors into it's whole use. And As I just showed again, in most instances ALWAYS means it's less damage until after 5 seconds minimum. Very good, actually means very bad without those extra proc bonuses. Also note, that as a pet as well, this means that it will not get the tanker radius increase either, that other damage toggles get, so yet another drawback of the power. It also means, it's not going to crit on scrappers, which is a HUGE drawback on them, and means on brutes, that the damage it does will decrease over time too as the fury on the patch wears off. The power, in general in almost all play, is bad. Without giving it other advantages of doing more damage when staying there for a long duratoin by giving it 50% more damage than it does now (ie 75% damge per patch versus 50% per patch of a standard toggle), then the power is honestly still pretty crappy compared to just being a regular damage toggle. I'd easily say increase it's damage by 50%, for it to even start being as valuable as a standard damage toggle.