WindDemon21

Generally speaking too, while it should be affixed, .99 of course was everything i've ever heard or tested outside of LS. Like I said, even with .8, it will sometimes kb, and sometimes KD from my testing just now, freaks, +2, no inherent kb protection or weakness. It just seems random at that mag unlike other powers. Really should have any native kd be just like .01 mag to avoid stacking too, as well as on procs like the winter kd proc/rag proc/OF proc. Then powers like LS, fix to like .7 so its native kd but can slot for kb if you wish.

No it should be knockdown was the thing I was getting at. kb at even level, but kd higher than that. That way its kd most of the time which almost everyone would want, but you can slot for kb if you'd desire against higher foes. It's still doing it at .8kb (which other powers i could swear only do kd at that level, and *sometimes* it actually does only kd, it's really weird with LS).

Oh yeah, also, like i said tried against +2s, was doing .8kb, and still knocking back, so that also doesn't track. I've noticed the "under mag 1" always kd'ing on anyting else, but maybe didn't specify the exact kb value, but pretty sure it works that way with other powers, not sure how/why/where this discrepancy is but should be looked at and fixed.

Yeah no tornados, was only using LS and crushing field (which also needs to have the -kb that other aoe immobs get, same with elec controls. And really, everything i've ever seen was under mag 1 it should be. Would be nice if they'd update that too then to the .99.

Lightning storm does mag 1 knockback, so anything +1 or higher, it should be native knockdown, however, as you can see, even though it IS showing it was downgraded to .9kb against +1, and I've verified .8 against +2s and so forth, it still somehow is doing knockback against +1s and +2s. +3s seem to be knocking down. I'm not using any other power during these tests as well that might be stacking. Also, as I've suggested, and it makes 100% total sense, PLEASE give tornado the pull-in that singularity has. I mean, it IS a tornado, and would help the annoying fear/kb (if you dont use kb-kd). Which also, would be nice if the fear was removed as well, but woudln't hold my breath on that, and can see where some may like it for the chaos, but 100% it should have that pull-in radius like singularity has.

And accurate defense debuff, and accurate to hit debuff, and some "universal buff/debuff" sets for powers like fulcrum shift, sonic siphon etc which currently can't use any, and the superior version of the OF set, and a purple set for fear, and actual appropriate sets/bonuses/stats for slow sets XD, and changing the stat/rech IO in purples to instead an acc/stat/end redux to get some more dang end reduction in them XD, and changing the proc/rech in ATOs and winters into instead end redux/proc!

Correct, it's a feedback thread, which I have given, and many others have prior to this. Just cause you don't care doesn't mean it's not there to many others of us. Your lack of concern about it, doesn't make our points moot.

Are you trolling? There is literally 12.5 other pages that explain it prior to this.

*broadly gestures to all the posts describing it previously*

Those suppressed toggles also should NOT cost end while you're mezzed and they're suppressed. At the 100% very minimum, fix that..

Ugh, and just pushed it through. 5 seconds is still way too long. Please fix this and stop doing stupid decisions!

Ughhhh f'ing really? Just pushed it through. God this was a HORRIBLE change. Bad move devs...

Um... you STILL forgot about the slow and knockback sets/enhancing. Same with Ice Patch. You also increased the recharge for shiver/cold snap, and DIDN'T adjust the duration of the slow, making it even worse to try to keep the slow on. Terrible...

And why not just a short 3-4ish second mag 4 fear to use to enter melee with as a taoe, allowing the more constant slow of the power to be usable in melee? (While still not forgetting fixing its rech/duration of the slow if that wasn't done already)

That said though, is it referring to the slow being too good as a taoe (not cone), or both? Read up further, and you'll see the suggestion for mainly having the slow as the taoe so its usable in melee, but then making the fear a mag 4, but only last like 4ish seconds, just enough time to get into melee, and let AA go to work. In addition, please address the horridly dumb duration that has existed forever on the power, it should easily be at least 30s. Always been a thorn in it's side that it literally had worse rech/duration than the blaster version, which even that got an update, but not the controller/dom versions.

Taoe CLEARLY is referred to as a ranged attack, where the area is a radius around the targeted enemy, as opposed to a ranged cone. Don't be pedantic.

It should definitely be taoe so you can use it in melee. Given how wide the cone is for the slow it should still have a good radius to hit enemies. I'd easily say 30 feet if not 35. Keep the fear in the same radius, but make it truly more use as the "opener to close into melee" by having it be mag 4, but short duration, like 4 or 5 seconds, enough to close in, and let you set up a toggle or two if need be while giving time for AA to do its work. At the same time, to also please address the horrid recharge vs duration issue it has for the slow part. 30s is fine for the recharge, but the duration of the slow should easily be upped to at least 30 seconds.

That is correct, and if you read our posts, including the one I just put before the last, we are including that in our calculations. GIVEN that, still, 5s is too long of a suppression as lots of combos don't have a power more worth the toggle without getting aggro, or may not have that specific power always available when the mez ends either.

Just because some may not *notice* it as a nerf though doesn't mean that it's not. Not caring about something doesn't mean that it didnt occur lol. Otherwise thar could be said of literally anything and a nerf simply *wouldn't exist* if people just lowered their standards for everything instead. I also didn't test specifically and I'm at work atm but do the toggles also still cost end when suppressed/mezzed? Because if they do that's also another detriment with this change is more end costs.

Oh no don't get me wrong, it *can* mean less micromanagement, and I've been asking for not detoggling when mezzed for a long time. The suppression though is the issue. And as mentioned it does help *some* (minority) combos out, buy at 5 seconds, it is most definitely a nerf to most (even is less *work* of having to retoggle) At the very most I'd say a buff to maybe like a couple combos, neutral to a few and nerf to the majority. 4 seconds (including being able to attack instead) would average much better, though there are still some that this would hurt a good bit.

Just read edits. And no *just* a change is different. A nerf though is where you're *forced* to change your tactics (which can also mean build change not just movements etc) in order to reclaim similar or next best performance.

*EXACTLY* maybe not, but it basically ends up being the same result in the majority of any nerf even if in a small part.

Having to change your tactics for a change because you can't do what you could before is pretty much the very definition of a nerf. Edit: Again, it's not that *some* combos can't benefit and use that time to their advantage. Controllers probably get the best benefit having control and support powers that should have something usable. But lots of defender/corruptors do not have several attacks more worthwhile than an important toggle, and masterminds almost explicitly get a straight nerf out of this change.

Well for starters why they think when debuffs are already affected by the purple patch, resistances, radii, higher end costs, and for most target issues moving away, dying etc, that they should also even need to be suppressed compared to defensive toggles... In lieu of that as well, again 5s is still too long of a suppression, 4 is the absolute max, but still hinders most sets. We still need to look at mez as a whole on squishies. More protection options, a MEZ suppression so you're not perma or chain mezzed, and resistances to matter more by upping the values from bonuses etc.

Or.. hear me out... Make it a taoe so you can use it in melee too! *re-sarcasm*