WindDemon21

While at it though, again especially for how melee-centric the set is in general with AA, it would make a lot more sense to have shivers just be a ranged aoe with a wide area that you can use in melee too. That has always been an odd part of the self-set synergy.

Yeah, definitely always been in the boat that self-armor toggles shoudln't even "cancel"/ suppress when mezzed, they should still be working.

No, i was saying it stops working when you're mezzed. NO way would i be saying to have them remove the slow in AA lol. I'm saying that the people saying shiver's slow is useless is wrong and I want to be able to use it in melee for MORE slow lol Agreed. And again for a melee set really with AA, shivers should really just be a wide area ranged aoe 35ft or more. not a cone so it can be used in melee too.

I would have to hardily disagree there. especially with even the toggle change when mezzed, even if no suppression after its over, the slow mainly from AA can go off, but shivers can stay. And since you're in melee for it, the wider slow of shiver works a lot better. Though all things considered, it really should just be a really big area targetted aoe, like 30 or 35 feet, and have the fear do that as well so you can use it in melee too. In any rate as well, they really need to make the debuff from shiver last way longer than it does. Even before any ice control changes, since you use it before jumping in and not as often after, it should have lasted way longer like a minute, not 18seconds (worse rech/duration stats than even the blaster version ugh)

Not on sentinels though with the dumb target cap change, who will only hit 6 with the -resistance and damage... While on the subject of the cones though, can we please equalize sirens song to the 50ft range like the other cones, that has always been a really funky part about the aoe on sonic too. Which is where on defenders and corruptors at least I think there should be slightly different tweaks to keep this in place. And with screech being a major part of the damage cycle now, should be sooner, i'd personally prefer aim at 35 on defenders where it is less necessary. (like explosive blast on energy blast too, main powers feel horrid to have to wait till 35 for, nukes make enough sense at 38 but by 28 the core of sets should be reachable) They also 100% need to give an extra effect for scream so there is actual value to picking up both the tier 1 and 2, especially in the defenders case who can't choose scream over shriek. Likewise having shriek's damage properly upgraded to the 62.56 damage at 50 scalar for blasters for it's 1s cast time. Going to re-iterate as well, that screech could very easily be made the set's snipe as well if that was a consideration.

Keep in mind, at current, they already have the code for offensive toggles to suppress when mezzed, with zero additional suppression once the mez breaks on the blaster sustains. Dynamo, Frigid, Reaction Time, Cauterizing Aura, and works this way for all defensive armors and toggles as well, and they nowhere near break the game. Also to note that the coding exists, just extend the powers it's for to include all offensive toggles. This would be a defacto nerf on those blaster sustains if it has ANY post-mez suppression. Just another thing to keep in mind if they're going to add the post-mez suppression with the live rollout.

Since no pseudo-pet benefits from containment I would imagine not. Unfortunately, procs on pseudopets especially with those with big areas like ice slick get TERRIBLE proc chances and still do every 10 seconds only. Enemy procs will do very little with ice slick. Re-iterating, allow us to slot slow and knockback sets and enhancements into ice slick and patch. Procs won't do much, but it REALLY can use actual slow enhancements like any slow patch can, quicksand can, tar patch can, etc. For a set thats about slows, its so odd this and ice patch could never take slow enhancments let alone sets, and kb sets/enhancements too. (for those that wish to extend the kb over mag 1 to knocback, for example a blaster might want to as a keep away ice patch rather than "stay on and fall down" patch. And either form would benefit from the slow. I'd also like to see the slow sets revamped to actual have good bonuses and stats (less that have damage where most don't have damage on them for example, and with more acc/end/rech stats). A new slow set that has a recharge proc would be very beneficial as well.

Yep, and again, buff toggles don't have this at ALL, seems kinda an extra opposition for these to have it especially when they're already affected by the purple patch, resistances, to hit checks on some, and mob placement. I would honestly not bat an eye at there being zero suppression at all and the game still being fine, but if you wanna factor animation time (not recharge time cause tbh they shouldn't have recharges as a toggle anyway and becomes negligible usually as well), considering LOTS should have lower cast times from what they have now too anyway, I think 3 seconds to average over all plus allowing you an attack or two during would be fair enough. (Also acknowledging that while it's nice to be able to attack, it is unfair to also take away a players precedence to preferably cast the toggle first instead of attacking, and that there isn't always a better "first action" power besides a toggle like with hurricane/rad infection like in the current version) Again, the goal of this change SHOULD be to make it BETTER for squishies without mez protection who get mezzed, not to just create a different mechanic with its own flaws. Since any toggle should have 1-1.5s max cast time anyway, and some combos do, but most have two or under two offensive toggles, 3 seconds of suppression would be the most fair value.

Quite a few of us have, and you also don't need to to count just how long 8 seconds is in a battle, especially for key toggles that you need back on asap, esp considering how tbqh toggles shouldn't really even have recharges to begin with. Outside of that, and that most toggles should be reduced in their cast time regardless of this change to 1-1.5 seconds, it doesn't factor in: 1. with hasten, bonuses, slotting, buffs etc, and especially with the rech starting at the beginning of the mez, most rech on the toggles is often negligible. 2. the average offensive toggles that most sets/combos actually have, let alone that lots of those should already have lower cast times anywho. 3. that you can't choose which toggle you want to go on first immediately for your survival and/or in which order 4. that the target you have toggled may be dead, or moved around without your intervention BECAUSE you were mezzed, so you may likely not want it on that enemy anyway making you micromanage to untoggle first anyway 5. that this also means that the EFFECTS of those toggles wont work until after the suppression, regardless of when the actual debuff/effect of the toggle may occur earlier in the toggle animation. 6. defense toggles don't suppress, so there really isn't any reason for enemy toggles to suppress since they're already not working while mezzed as it is anyway and will still be subject to point 4 above.

Yup that exactly is another reason Wav. It's already been an issue IMO that debuffs get affected by the purple patch and resistances yet buffs do not (though enemy buffs hurt the same to either). Also, again it's unfair to factor in the recharge when in most cases, (certainly any i've played from level 20 and beyond) the powers are already recharged by the time the mez wears off, and it DOESN'T factor the fact that you CAN boost your rech to make it a non-factor, where as the suppression hurts you regardless. This honestly doesn't even go to the fact that it seems pretty pointless for toggles to even have a recharge to even begin with, and also isn't addressing that there are lots of toggles like darkest night that SHOULD have their cast times reduced to 1-1.5 seconds as it is already. So factoring some of that to the suppression is already kind of a joke.

Do NOT put shockwave late lol. As stated it's key for those who know how to use it properly. Honestly, especially on defenders too I'd move aim to 35.

Which with the 8 second suppression, by the time its off you're getting another mez etc. It also doesn't let you choose which most important toggle, like darkest night, to apply on first when it's that long, hence the compromise of the maybe 3s suppression duration, to account for the overall average use/benefit of this change.

Obvoiusly this would be for non-sentinels, but what about making Screech a snipe? Especially to use that 50% range buff to help extend the cones on blasters.

It may not be the concept, but I'll still die on the hill that 6 targets instead of 10 on the cones just feels GOD AWFUL and ruins a lot of good mitigation potential of ones like shockwave, energy torrent, umbral torrent etc.

And KD sets too.

Of course, the BIG issue, is why does it STILL not accept slow and kb sets like it should. That needed fixed WELL before adding any damage to it.

Keep in mind this is also not accounting for the fact that when you finally get unmezzed the target that is toggled, can likely either be dead, or BECAUSE you were mezzed, and unable to control your movement/battlefield powers, they aren't where you want them anyway and you may want the toggle on a new target. It may be more management and annoying when toggles drop when mezzed, but vs a *too* long suppression it's actually more effective having them do so. There are a lot of things to be considered for how this QoL affects the gameplay, but however you look at it, the suppression shouldn't be longer than 3ish seconds because of all these factors without resulting in MORE micromanagement to personally detoggle, or less effectiveness because the suppression lasts too long. A fire/ice/elec troller with rad emission would probably be the biggest proponent of offensive toggles, but when most sets only have just one, or two that often activate faster as well, this is also where the averaged 3s suppression makes the most sense, rad would be a bit better which honestly it can use given how important it's toggles are, while many others this would still be a nerf, but can be nice resulting in less management. (again, at 3s, not 8 )

Up enough, it's close but still impacted. The bigger issue here is easily the target cap issue on it.

You just need to put a kb-kd in it. You probably don't hear good things about those who do not do that and use it willy nilly, but it is HUGE if you know what you're doing. On non-sents, the already 10 target cap on its main aoes though, was also what hurt it compared to other sets. It needs said again, all ranged cones on non-sents should be 16 targets to match their taoe counterparts, and 10 on sents. There is no reason this really should have ever been the case to begin with for ranged cones :/.

The problem is still much greater than you realize though. Shockwave was the biggest part of sonic blast, not because of damage, but because of the sheer knock mitigation it offered. Even if the damage was lower, it was really effective to be able to alternate howl and shockwave and have it hit most of the mob. This nerf REALLY negates its use for group knockback/down, and is honestly nowhere near worth the damage change. The change to siren's, terrific, but as someone mentioned, casting these cones and having it only hit less than half of the enemies in a mob just feels REALLY bad. Especially for those cones that are extremely useful for mitigation like shockwave. energy torrent, and umbral torrent. The problem is, thinking that sentinels should even have a lower target cap to begin with, when they already have a much lower damage scalar and range decrease on some of these. The target caps should not be lower, definitely not anything less than 10 targets. This also means, HAVING to take a 3rd cone attack power, and slotting it, to reclaim some of the damage lost. Where honestly it was fine before. the damage/rech would manageable if the animation was just sped up, but definitely not by nerfing the target caps on these key powers, and the less affected -resist from howl.

I'm fairly confident that that at least would be only for the damage, not the knockdown effect. Could be wrong given some of the changes in this patch in the wrong direction, but i would imagine it's only for the damage. Considering the damage I would imagine is from them falling though, seems like that should be autohit as well given it's minor.

This is quite a bit TOO many cones. Granted i like them, but it severely limits gameplay options when they never work around you, nor with corners/objects in the way. This is especially bad on the immobilize, as dark control will tell you. Forces you to only be able to play at range for the most part and won't mesh with sets well. Dark included, the aoe immobilize should be a large radius taoe, not a cone.

This was meant to be "terrify" per status right? As in, the control where they cower, not that AI effect where they try to run away?

Don't forget to extend it's duration too. It was already kinda BS that it takes a bit to just perma the slow, especially when blasters version was already easily permable out of the gate. 30 second duration at least.

Please fix this so that they also FINALLY will take slow and knockback sets. Same goes for Ice Patch.