Onlyasandwich

Indeed my latest iteration referenced in the thread uses hover/fly!

I've always had a seed of doubt, but here we are confirmed. Diantane is indeed the king of trolls. Masterful.

It's not a bad trade! I think the extra global acc is worth keeping though, given that I'm relying on it to hit with some of my more heavily procced powers. It's not a bad concept to keep in my back pocket if I do significant shifts elsewhere in the build. I'm wondering if maybe I just drop the +def uniques (not the pet uniques, but for personal defense). This would give me room for more procs, slow resist, or to shore up my KB protection. Since I'm not anywhere near personal softcap, they aren't doing as much work as normal. There again, they put me that much closer to softcapping with purples or outside buffs.

That is one of the areas I'd love to improve if I can find any slot efficiency that's worth the trade. One potential solution on my mind is swapping Brine for Acrobatics. This brings me up to 12 KB prot, along with some bonus hold protection. I've seen a lot of folks skipping Brine, but I'm inclined to keep it I think. On a MM especially, the force multiplier for hard targets seems well worth it. With its current one slot, it's at 95% hit chance for +3's on only one stack of shifting tides. I'm good with this. Good point on Barrier Reef! That gives me an extra little nudge on defense totals. I also swapped the Cyto in Enforcers to a straight up +5 Defense IO. The tohit benefit is very marginal here (only .5 tohit), and the extra defense edge is nice, alongside some influence savings with the cheaper option. Pets are now at 44.1% defense, just barely shy of softcap! A meaningful step forward. I could hit official softcap with another Defense IO in Enforcers, but I don't think it's worth losing a proc or the extra bit of acc/dam/end from my +5 Sovereign right. Latest version with these small updates: Mastermind (Thugs - Marine Affinity).mbd

Thank you @Crysis and @SeraphimKensai for your input on the Guassian proc! Indeed I did suspect that it was sort of similar to putting it in tactics (buff hits the MM, and gets a chance for every target hit). Some part of me was hoping that it somehow would buff the target I anchor it to, but of course that doesn't make any sense. 55% uptime for buildup proc sounds nice, but ultimately doesn't come out to all that much with poor base damage on MM, so I don't think I'll devote the slot. I'd love to hear more perspective on how you slot the power overall! Especially whether accuracy is necessary. From what I see, it would be necessary for the bonus damage to hit. I'm loving the build so far! Any insight there is welcome as well if you see anything you'd do differently :).

I recognize that it's strong and objectively makes my st damage better. However, I agree that it's disappointing. It just doesn't feel good to use. When it comes to it I'd rather just have the oomph of a real snipe.

Hello long lost coh friends! It's been a while (I've been digging away at FFXIV for a few months), but the latest issue caught my eye, and Marine Affinity is of course all the rage. I've noodled on a few different Thugs combinations in the past, and this one seems the perfect synergy, as well as the ideal opportunity to lean into a pirate fantasy : ). I know we all have a lot to learn about the practicalities of this new set in practice. I want to first talk about Shifting Tides specifically. What does this power need? I haven't seen other builds out there slotting it for any accuracy at all, but as far as I can see in CoD, it looks like the bonus damage mechanic maybe needs accuracy to hit? Am I missing something here? I'd love to save the slots if possible, but as it stands I've devoted some accuracy attention to it. Also - has anyone tested the Gaussian proc in it? I would guess that it works similar to tactics, in that it would buff the caster only, but the chances would be strong every 10 second pulse due to many enemy targets generating little blips of shifting tides buffs. However, maybe there are some odd shenanigans with how the buffs are generated, and something more interesting happens. I'm also curious how impactful the bonus damage itself is, and how worth enhancing. Looking at CoD, I can't quite parse the % chance that scales with rising tides stacks, so am not really clear on how often it triggers, and if perhaps the % and/or damage scale is in proportion to the attack used. On to the build section! Here is my pirate dude for your dissection and enjoyment. Mastermind (Thugs - Marine Affinity).mbd Primary Goals: Gotta have at least one pistol power - he's a pirate. Leviathan is also required for theme. I will be a pistol shooty, punchy, shark bitey kinda guy. Maximize personal and pet damage through procs where possible. Secondary goals: Maximize personal resist across the board. As much recharge as possible without sacrificing primary goals. Max hit chance against +3's. As much slow resist as I can squeeze in without sacrificing the above. I'm pretty happy with the result! The current build hits ~41% defense (more for aoe of course) for my pets with the enforcer buffs, with very healthy resists to support. Between that and my heals, regen, and bit of absorb, I think they should be pretty sturdy. Neat tricks in the current build: Overwhelming KD proc in thugs is super fun and powerful! Extra KD proc in shifting tides should add to the passive mitigation. Panacea in Power of the depths should juice me and my minions in an aoe, and if it works like similar powers, provide a continuing chance of further procs over the duration. Any confirm of your experience here would be great. Where I'd love to improve: I am relying on a few click powers for endurance management. Could put me in awkward spots at times. Devoting slots to health/stamina would be nice, but I think not necessary. Would be neat to try out Gaussian in shifting tides. Would be nice to have room for the damage proc in Brine. Not sure that I'll use it much outside of EB/AV though. More room to slot out Soothing Wave would be nice. 1-2 extra -KD IOs would be nice. Do you think it's a real miss to skip Shoal Rush? It seems pretty lacklustre, even procced out. I see that it was improved over the course of testing, but it still seems pretty redundant, and the easiest skip in the set. Note that I have shifting tides set to max right now. I have a little extra global acc that on the surface appears unnecessary, as I'd like to keep good chances to hit without full saturation. Chunk: Text: Picture:

Oil slick arrow would do the trick.

You'll find quite a few if you look in various Demons/ threads out there. It's a popular combo. The whip attacks are very much worthwhile. Theft of Essence proc in your heal is also key for sustainability, as MM's have some trouble on that front. This IO gets a proc chance off of every henchman healed, so you can spam it indefinitely and it will not only keep you steady, it will often refill your end. Here is my own build for reference, which was updated fairly recently. Mine is very focused on adding as much personal damage as possible, and it works really well! /Dark provides plenty of defensive tools to keep everyone afloat - you just have to keep using them proactively. Demon Dark.mbd Of the builds you shared, the Mysha build is better. It goes for more personal defense than mine, but mine has much more personal damage. Personally, I find /Dark bridges the gap with all its debuffs just fine, but can understand why others might want a stronger defense baseline. Mine also leverages damage procs in the pets where they are most relevant, which substantially increases their potential. I especially like the Overwhelming KD proc in the T1 on a lot of my MM's. Since it's a flat 20% chance for KD unaffected by recharge, those little demons provide a lot of passive soft control! The other build is pretty inefficient, and focuses way too much on full set bonuses to no real benefit. It also skips all the personal attacks, which in my opinion is a mistake for Demons, as Whips are some of the best MM attacks around. Many of them are excellent for procs, and they also do -res debuff which enhances your pet damage too. It's also missing two of the global pet enhancing IOs.

Enjoy's build offers some perspective here, but I would consider: Arctic Air Can even be a one slot wonder with endredux if you really want, though deserves some slots Flash Freeze Might come in handy at times. Not amazing, but has a use case at least with only 1 slot.) Ice Storm Will need to redo slots to feed it Grant Invis or Infiltration as a Lotg mule. Infiltration could also serve as a Slow res mule. Could drop stealth pool entirely and rely on Celerity. Pick up superspeed if you still want full stealth. This would free a pool so you could pick up Combat Teleport, Teleport Target, Hover, or Maneuvers, They all at least add some utility or extra bit of defense in the case of maneuvers.

Even so, it serves little use if you have the aoe immob.

Hi there! Thanks for sharing the file. A few high level observations: You are going all ranged, but only minimally slotted thorny darts, which will be needed for a good rotation. Not an amazing power, but Thorn Barrage and Impale are going to feel really slow if that's all you have for single target. Chillblain is very redundant. Impale already immobilizes, and will even immob bosses with Dom up. Arctic Air is an important part of Ice's kit. I know you're staying at range, but you can still use it at range - just stay near enough. It has a broad area. You'll be somewhat close in anyhow to use fling. Wall of force is not a good damage power. It's nice for AT's that don't have access to other aoes, but it's highly inefficient here. It's not even needed as a prereq if Unleash is important to you. Ice Storm is much better. You have chosen a defense based epic, but not achieved any softcaps, even with Unleash up. You aren't really achieving much survivability here. If ignoring softcap, go epic resist instead. Recovery is a bit weak. Domination infusions will probably keep you going most of the time, but timing won't always work out. If I could identify any focus here, I guess it would be "recharge where I can find it," but otherwise the IO bonuses lack any real focus. Consider picking some additional goals like: Some type of softcap. Maximizing proc damage. Resists. Pick a strategy and lean into it more, and you'll find greater success. As long as you have perma dom and good accuracy, you can still get away with a lot, of course. However, Ice lacks consistent harder lockdown (no aoe stun), so you'll have to deal with some amount of reprisal. This is especially true if you continue to drop Arctic Air, which offers somewhat persistent control, though it takes a moment to kick in. There is more that I would consider in a full rebuild. You can peek at my own build linked above for how my priorities would align. Certainly you don't have to set the same goals I have!

I feel like SoM would be too powerful as a set if the ed were better. Few sets offer such bonuses for low IO investment. As it stands, it poses an interesting build optimization. I will often 3 slot it, do a +5 purple dam/end, and round out with procs. This requires good global acc support. Can sub in an HO or even plussed out t strike in place of the purple. Other times like @tidgementioned I'll go for winter' bite, typically a three slot for the slow resistance, round out with procs.

Sudden Acceleration KD conversion is key as well. The previous issue was that it caused so much scatter. The KD proc is a game changer! Now you have a power that: Animates quickly. Does a bit of decent damage with procs. Juices everything with FFback. Applies a good stun. Allows you to keep mobs on their butts in tandem with Footstomp.

Hi there! Newest mids won't let me paste data chunks for import. Do you mind sharing the file? I built my own Ice/thorny not long ago, and have enjoyed it so far. The keys focuses of my own build: Slow resist. +recharge with FFback support. Extra proc damage juice in key powers. S/L defense as a fallback, with Unleash to softcap and support other defenses in troublesome situations. At 50, I find that, much like my other doms, it's very sustainable to rely on my controls for survivability. Defenses are a bit of a side note, and I don't go out of my way to invest in bonuses related to them. This allows me to really focus on maximum damage, though it does require a lot of focus on proper engagements. If something goes sideways, you have to pop your backup plan very quickly or you'll go down. However, you do have some solid backup plans with Unleash, Glacier, Hibernate, and even Flash Freeze in the right spot. Pick whichever one you like and wait stabilize. Your build may be a very different focus, which is fine of course. I also dislike taking the fighting pools on my doms, as it's a heavy power investment on an AT that really benefits from deeper APP dips, and the end sustainability can be tough. Note procs are toggled off in Thorn Barrage and Ripper to reflect more realistic recharge totals. Dominator (Ice Control - Thorny Assault) unleash version.mbd Text: Chunk: Picture: