Question on playing a truly vile villain

[JetMalakai]

So I have a character concept in mind...for a Nazi. As in a literal, goose stepping, minority hating, works with/for the 5th Column Nazi. Obviously a villain, and I plan to include two disclaimers in the bio. The first being that the character's views are not the player's, and the second being that if at any point you as the player do not want to interact with the Nazi, send me an OOC tell and I'll find a reason for them to leave you alone. Do you think I've covered my bases here? I don't want to get generic'd or otherwise get in trouble (I'm not going to use racial slurs, regardless of how authentic it might be to use them) and I don't want to piss anyone off. I want them to hate the character, not me. Any suggestions?

[QueenBethari]

18 minutes ago, JetMalakai said:

So I have a character concept in mind...for a Nazi. As in a literal, goose stepping, minority hating, works with/for the 5th Column Nazi. Obviously a villain, and I plan to include two disclaimers in the bio. The first being that the character's views are not the player's, and the second being that if at any point you as the player do not want to interact with the Nazi, send me an OOC tell and I'll find a reason for them to leave you alone. Do you think I've covered my bases here? I don't want to get generic'd or otherwise get in trouble (I'm not going to use racial slurs, regardless of how authentic it might be to use them) and I don't want to piss anyone off. I want them to hate the character, not me. Any suggestions?

I think it's really neat that you're taking steps to protect everyone's boundaries. That's a wonderful thing to do! However, I think there might be some people who find the concept itself uncomfortable.

 

It might be even safer to couch the character in terms of the game's lore - for example, making sure the bio says, "supporter of the Council" instead of "supporter of white supremacy."

 

I hope this helps!

Edited October 2, 2019 by QueenBethari
Punctuation!

[biostem]

2 hours ago, JetMalakai said:

So I have a character concept in mind...for a Nazi. As in a literal, goose stepping, minority hating, works with/for the 5th Column Nazi. Obviously a villain, and I plan to include two disclaimers in the bio. The first being that the character's views are not the player's, and the second being that if at any point you as the player do not want to interact with the Nazi, send me an OOC tell and I'll find a reason for them to leave you alone. Do you think I've covered my bases here? I don't want to get generic'd or otherwise get in trouble (I'm not going to use racial slurs, regardless of how authentic it might be to use them) and I don't want to piss anyone off. I want them to hate the character, not me. Any suggestions?

Serious question here - What are you actually hoping to accomplish by doing this?  I assume you want to have fun playing your characters - do you honestly think this, and any friction it may cause, (even with the disclaimer you mentioned), will be worth it?  I am totally willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have to accept that many people will interpret that as a "get out of blame free" type of thing - where "your character" can say truly awful things, but it's ok because you are "roleplaying".  Again, I don't know you well enough to pass judgment, but nowadays, this sort of topic can be understood as a thinly veiled excuse to get away with hateful stuff...

[JetMalakai]

13 minutes ago, biostem said:

Serious question here - What are you actually hoping to accomplish by doing this?  I assume you want to have fun playing your characters - do you honestly think this, and any friction it may cause, (even with the disclaimer you mentioned), will be worth it?  I am totally willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have to accept that many people will interpret that as a "get out of blame free" type of thing - where "your character" can say truly awful things, but it's ok because you are "roleplaying".  Again, I don't know you well enough to pass judgment, but nowadays, this sort of topic can be understood as a thinly veiled excuse to get away with hateful stuff...

The (really stupid) answer: I snagged a name that's a pun on the word Nazi and want to use it.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, JetMalakai said:

The (really stupid) answer: I snagged a name that's a pun on the word Nazi and want to use it.

Then why not make it more of a tongue-in-cheek reference - like someone really goofy who styles themself as an "uber badass" - maybe they're so incompetent that they can't even get the insults and regalia right.  Alternatively, imagine an ocean-themed character who was a master at binding objects, they dubbed themself "Knot Sea", and there was a horrible misunderstanding with the name registrar...

[Snakebit]

22 minutes ago, JetMalakai said:

The (really stupid) answer: I snagged a name that's a pun on the word Nazi and want to use it.

Not a roleplayer but the thread caught my attention so I'm posting a reply:

 

You should go with a John Banner/Sgt Schultz type of buffoon. 

 

 

Teaming with someone that is spoofing Nazis would be a hell of a lot more palatable than your OP. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by cejmp

[Ikmachek]

Honestly my dude, go for it. You're playing them as an outright villain and not trying to sugarcoat it making them misunderstood or some silly shit. The 5th Column has been with the game since forever and are the classic mad science and gas mask moon Nazis. If you got a fun concept in mind, don't be afraid. I got a Warwolf I play, and all I've gotten is one guy saying it's a cool concept and they hope I met their Council badguy.

 

I'd just say to avoid the D because it makes no sense for a ultra-strict fascist to ever /be/ in that kind of place, and be more creative than having a flanderized german accent, everyone's done it.

[JetMalakai]

That's a good idea, but I can't play a completely comedic villain. I've tried, it just doesn't come out right. But still, it inspired me to make a goofy-on-the-surface concept that becomes frightening dangerous.

The Fifth Column experiments in a lot of different ways, and not all of them go well. When one of their serums produced a catgirl who seemed more playful than deadly, they tossed her into Mercy Island without a second thought.

But no one ever thought to give her a gun. Once she got her hands on one, her feline reflexes and eyesight made her a top marksman. She upgraded her arsenal, learned how to fight, all while being mistreated by almost every human who wasn't scared of her due to her laughable nature and known affiliation with the Fifth Column.

She now knows that humanity is beyond redemption, and that she and her kind are the next step of evolution. Taking a name to ironically mock those who saw her as useless, she will start the world's first catgirl supremacy movement as...the Nyazi.

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, JetMalakai said:

That's a good idea, but I can't play a completely comedic villain. I've tried, it just doesn't come out right. But still, it inspired me to make a goofy-on-the-surface concept that becomes frightening dangerous.

Well, an ongoing theme could be her trying to reconcile her indoctrination and innate abilities, with a desire for power and revenge;  She "needs" the training she received from the 5th Column in order to survive, and couldn't do so without the abilities they "gifted" her, but at the same time, there's no chance for a normal life for her.  It's basically a matter of "the world won't go easy on me, so I won't go easy on it (or its inhabitants)".

[Ikmachek]

Quote

the Nyazi.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Ikmachek

[AerialAssault]

I wouldn't worry too much about people taking that character too seriously..

[Moka]

[Mercurias]

1 hour ago, Moka said:

I'm gonna have to steal this image and agree with Moka on this one. 

[quixoteprog]

I definitely support people pushing the boundaries of good taste and cultural norms. And think even racist and racial commentary are open to making jokes and artistic expression, or whatever you want to call it? But I think you are REALLY playing with fire here. It is fine if you want to do a one man show in your local theater or something. But in a publicly available game, where there are likely many children, some of whom are certain to be members of the racial groups you are play acting with as a racist, you will almost certainly run smack into some serious trouble.

 

I am not telling you not to do it, and I am not saying you don't have the right to do it (that is up to the admins)

 

What I AM saying is that you will almost certainly get banned for doing what you describe. In spite of all the pains you describe planning to take to guard against offense it WILL NOT WORK. All it will take is one eight year old telling their mommy, "this man said the word <insert racial slur here> to me, a lot!" and you will get banned. It might even make the news. In a bad way.

 

Like I said, I don't mind if you try this. It is no skin of my nose.  But I will be SUPREMELY surprised if you pull it off for more than a couple game sessions.

Edited October 3, 2019 by quixoteprog
Fixed typos

[Mercurias]

My big concern with characters who "push boundaries" is that they're all too often used by players who want to shout extremely unacceptable things and blame it all on the character. Seeing any character who warns "Danger I do XYZ and if you don't like it then turn on the profanity filter" gets an immediate ignore from me. I'm 34 years old and don't have the time to waste on that nonsense. 

[Davy]

20 hours ago, JetMalakai said:

She now knows that humanity is beyond redemption, and that she and her kind are the next step of evolution. Taking a name to ironically mock those who saw her as useless, she will start the world's first catgirl supremacy movement as...the Nyazi.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Davy

[Big Lunk]

One of the games I like to play on set, is "If you had to play a horrible role, but it would be your big break in your acting career, but you're going to be typecast as that".
Basically you come up with a horrible role, and everyone says if they would sell out for it.
Most people would happily be typecast as a nazi, neonazi, or racist.
Things like slave, rapist and paedophile tend to be the ones no one would want to base a career off.

Not exactly the same situation, but I've never seen a problem with people portraying a character in RP who is unpleasant, as long as it's not done as a method of trolling or creating a mouthpiece for their own ideologies.

[AerialAssault]

An easy telling point between some asshole who wants to spout this or that and an actual character who embraces those ideas is that the latter has depth and intrigue involved in their characterisation, the former exists ONLY to be an asshole, where their every moment is spent being a complete insufferable menace on the community and doing their best to aggravate every player in sight. I think we're adult enough here to be able to police between the two.

 

Ultimately though, I think that playing such a villain requires understanding and respecting your audience. If you don't understand or respect them, then they're not required to do the same to you.

Edited October 3, 2019 by AerialAssault
gramar iz hard

[JetMalakai]

Okay, so to be clear, I've abandoned the idea of playing a traditional Nazi in favor of playing a catgirl supremacist. The only slurs I'll be making are the ones she makes up for humans.

Edited October 3, 2019 by JetMalakai

[Kiken]

Another thing to consider with playing a character that nobody is going to like is that...nobody is going to like them.

 

Somebody back on the old CoH had a character that, while not as extreme as what's being discussed here, was a womanising sleaze disliked widely by just about everybody that met them.  IC, that is.  OOC nobody had any problems at all with the player.  But the player did say that, while it was gratifying to have a character that got just the response they expected, it got exhausting to RP somebody that nobody would talk to civilly for any length of time.

[JetMalakai]

I honestly like this concept enough that I'm going to use it with a different name, just to scrub the possibility of a "thinly veiled excuse for spouting hate" accusation off of it. Hell, I might make her a literal Council officer or something. I'm just laughing so hard at the idea of a catgirl supremacist that I need to do this.

 

Thank you to all who helped inspire this, and who guided me away from making a serious mistake.

Edited October 3, 2019 by JetMalakai
Added more

[biostem]

5 hours ago, quixoteprog said:

But in a publicly available game, where there are likely many children

I generally agree with the larger point you're making, but I just want to dispute this point - CoH was *never* meant to be played by children, much less unsupervised ones.  I'm pretty sure the ToS/EULA require you to be an adult, (legally speaking), in order to even be able to accept said terms, so this argument falls flat, as far as I'm concerned.

[Snakebit]

5 hours ago, quixoteprog said:

I definitely support people pushing the boundaries of good taste and cultural norms. And think even racist and racial commentary are open to making jokes and artistic expression, or whatever you want to call it? But I think you are REALLY playing with fire here. It is fine if you want to do a one man show in your local theater or something. But in a publicly available game, where there are likely many children, some of whom are certain to be members of the racial groups you are play acting with as a racist, you will almost certainly run smack into some serious trouble.

 

I am not telling you not to do it, and I am not saying you don't have the right to do it (that is up to the admins)

 

What I AM saying is that you will almost certainly get banned for doing what you describe. In spite of all the pains you describe planning to take to guard against offense it WILL NOT WORK. All it will take is one eight year old telling their mommy, "this man said the word <insert racial slur here> to me, a lot!" and you will get banned. It might even make the news. In a bad way.

 

Like I said, I don't mind if you try this. It is no skin of my nose.  But I will be SUPREMELY surprised if you pull it off for more than a couple game sessions.

I'm not 8. 

 

You can better believe I'd report a Nazi themed character making racial slurs. If that toon wasn't generic'd within a reasonable time frame I'd not hesitate to make some public noise about it. If there were no adjustment made, I'd drop this or any game environment in a heartbeat and I'd put it out there as a place that promotes racism and white supremacy. Because it isn't ok. And frankly, it bothers me that there are people who would tolerate that. 

 

Fortunately, the OP doesn't appear to be a person to behave in that manner so it's a bit off topic and I'll leave it at that. 

[Davy]

The most despicable and vile act of villainy of all...

 

No-no words.

[Trademarked Name]

I don't know why a person would want to roleplay a vile individual. I can sort of understand playing "villains" <-those who operate outside the rules of society for personal gain. But wanting to role-play a sociopath, a sexual deviant, or even a person who trolls to get a rise out individuals is beyond my ability to comprehend. Of course, I also don't understand griefers being a thing. 

("Yeah, I created a toon and leveled it up just so I can mess-up other people's attempts at having successful raids and TFs. I also like to show up at random stranger picnics and let loose boxes of army ants, and steal walkers from old folks homes.") 

If you want a toon that is a Council or 5th column member, they are representative of the axis powers that existed in the middle of the 20th cen. Ex: Nazi/PNF (Partito Nazionale Fascista). They are established in game and that should be allowed esp. on CoV. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they MUST to be racist. That would be a personal choice on your part. And if someone felt that you were being abusive, even if under the facade of it being "well, that's my character", then they should still report you for being offensive. Being in-character and being offensive aren't mutually exclusive. 

 

It sounds like now you want to do a toon that is marginalized by main stream society because of their mutation/cat-raced-ness. The X-men's take on mutants was an intentional metaphor to the racial tensions of the civil rights movement. A team of mutants (minority) disparate from humanity (the majority),  who were in turn hated by those humans they were defending. This dichotomy is actually what makes them endearing, and more so when the prejudices were heated up. Fathers and mothers turning their own children in to the authorities, and such made for great shock value. But this was something that had to be established in the lore of the marvel universe over many issues and in a finessed way. The brotherhood hated humans and wanted them wiped from the face of the earth so that mutants could take their rightful place as the evolutionary replacement of humans. But this rarely went beyond comments like "You mutant scum!", and "You humans will rue the day!" The motivations and prevarications were rarely put in terms of vileness.

 

CoX hasn't established this as precedented backstory. Having a cat-person who hates humans and spews vitriol will seem like it's coming out of no where, unless you go into real detail about why this is a "thing" to your targets, and even then most people probably won't be able to correlate that to something that doesn't just come across as you being abusive. I know playing the downtrodden fighting against the establishment can be seen as heroic or valorous, but it all has to be taken in contextually at the moment it is given to your audience. 

 

A bigger question you might want to ask is why you want to play a vile individual and what the end result is that you are hoping to gain in doing so.

 

“Let's lay it right on the line. Bigotry and racism are among the deadliest social ills plaguing the world today. But, unlike a team of costumed super-villains, they can’t be halted with a punch in the snoot, or a zap from a ray gun. The only way to destroy them is to expose them—to reveal them for the insidious evils they really are.”..."But, although anyone has a right to dislike another individual. It’s totally irrational, patently insane to condemn an entire race—to despise an entire nation—to vilify an entire religion. Sooner or later, we must learn to judge each other on our own merits. Sooner or later, if a man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our hearts with tolerance.” -Stan Lee 1968