Blaster Secondaries: Why?

[MunkiLord]

2 hours ago, RialVestro said:

That is a decent point though I would assume that all content would have been updated along with the introduction of Incarnates because the game would be ridiculously easy if they didn't. Similar to how the enemies would scale up if you started at a higher level than 35. It should scale up for incarnates as well.

Sorry you're claiming that something designed to be a challenge for teams can be easily soloed and you think I lack understanding of game mechanics? You can't throw out an unbelievable claim like that and expect people to just accept that as true. Of course I'm going to assume it's faked because that I know is possible where as soloing something meant for a team I have never seen before.

 

Oh and how is telling someone that you need a team to successfully complete a TF designed for a team detrimental? You got that totally backwards. Telling them they CAN solo the ITF is detrimental. You're going to get some poor noob killed if they buy that BS. If I'm wrong nothing bad happens because I'm not the one telling them to solo one of the hardest challenges in the game with a Blaster!

 

Oh and anyone can solo a Giant Monster... as long as that GM is named Sally. 😉 She only has 1 HP.

Sally isn't a Giant Monster, your ignorance is showing again. I didn't say the ITF could be easily soloed, you made that up. You can be ignorant all you want, but don't be a liar. 

[MunkiLord]

41 minutes ago, Tacopotamus said:

I’m now almost 100% convinced you’re trolling right now mang.

 

No new player should do this with a blaster right off the shelf.  They should see someone solo it and aspire to it and see the potential their AT has.  What would this take for you to believe it? (If you’re not trolling)

Nah, that person believes the nonsense they are spouting. 

[HelBlaiz]

4 hours ago, RialVestro said:

That is a decent point though I would assume that all content would have been updated along with the introduction of Incarnates because the game would be ridiculously easy if they didn't. Similar to how the enemies would scale up if you started at a higher level than 35. It should scale up for incarnates as well.

Having things scale up to Incarnate outside Incarnate content defeats the purpose of Incarnate, which, to me, is making your character feel like they've ascended to another power level. Everything that used to challenge them feels easier while having a larger, more dangerous threat to face elsewhere.

 

And the ITF does scale up to fifty, but it still has to be balanced to accommodate a team of level 35.

[Moka]

The blaster secondaries are probably the widest variety of secondaries in the game. Energy is a completely different beast than say Atomic or Martial. You need to do the tiniest bit of research and skill review beforehand to see what might fit your playstyle. If you're looking to be more support based, energy and atomic are really good. If you just wanna be an even bigger damage dealer, sets like fire are real good. Martial doesn't really surpass any set, but it's really fun, and that's enough for me. 

 

tl;dr They're fine, just weird. 

 

Edit: I forgot to mention powers like Power Boost can boost my blaster S/L defense into the near 60% territory so there's definitely more to it than meets the eye.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Moka

[HelBlaiz]

It scales in the sense that the enemies are level 50 if the team is. It doesn't get better AI or grant the mobs extra abilities, however, because the same enemies are fought at level 35 as at 50.

 

The purpose of Incarnate, besides my previously stated personal opinion, is to give you something to work for once you hit max level. It's Plus Ultra mode, it needs to feel appreciably stronger than just being level fifty. If level fifty content got stronger with you at that point, it wouldn't be level fifty content, it'd be Incarnate content.

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, RialVestro said:

Nothing scales to Incarnates? So is this where you try to convince me that Incarnate trials are soloable too?

 

And by the way, I'm not refusing to look at the evidence. You simply haven't shown any evidence in the first place. If you wanna meet me in game we'll start an ITF and then you can prove you can solo that crap. Though I highly doubt you'd ever accept that challenge cause you know it can't actually be done.

As I said above. Meet me in game. We start an ITF, then either I watch you kill yourself (in game of course) or I see first hand that what you're saying is true. Until I see it in game I'm not going to believe it.

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Sally

 

"Sally is a monster that roams the lake of Salamanca in Croatoa."

 

"According to the City of Heroes Giant Monster Guide, Sally resurfaces 30 to 45 minutes after she is defeated."

 

What does it matter if you actually said the word "easily" or not? You're claiming that a TF designed to be a challenge for teams can be soloed by a Blaster. Easily is implied there regardless of if you actually said the word since that shouldn't even be possible at all. So either that is in fact your claim or you're retracting that claim and admitting it can't be done.

That's kind of the point of scaling... so it is balanced for both a team of level 35 and a team of level 50. If it wasn't balanced it would be either too difficult for a team of 35 to do or too easy for a team of level 50's... and frankly if you can solo it then that sounds like something is broken and not scaling properly.

 

By the way the purpose of Incarnate really doesn't even exist in the game. They were building up to the Coming Storm, whatever that was going to be. And never finished the Incarnate content before the servers shut down. The final Incarnate Slot isn't even suppose to be the Hybrid slot, that's just as far as they got released before the live servers shut down.

 

Genesis, Mind, Vitae, and Omega were planned to be released later down the line. So essentially without that event that was planned and never released there is no actual purpose of Incarnate anyway... Other than just giving you something to do when you reach level 50.

 

Personally I feel like I've ascended to another power level every time I unlock a new power. I don't need enemies to suddenly be incredibly weak for that. I mean if that's all it takes for you, go hunt some greys in Atlas Park, you'll feel like a god tier hero before you've even reached Incarnate status.

Sally is a monster, not a Giant Monster, those are different classes. See, your ignorance is showing again. 
 

And no, something being done is a fact, like a solo ITF. Something being easy is subjective. Your claim that I said it was easy, is a lie. Another fact. There is a difference.
 

Look I get it, your ego won't let you admit you're wrong. It's ok buddy, it happens. 

[jshmoe1236123]

1 hour ago, RialVestro said:

Nothing scales to Incarnates? So is this where you try to convince me that Incarnate trials are soloable too?

 

And by the way, I'm not refusing to look at the evidence. You simply haven't shown any evidence in the first place. If you wanna meet me in game we'll start an ITF and then you can prove you can solo that crap. Though I highly doubt you'd ever accept that challenge cause you know it can't actually be done.

As I said above. Meet me in game. We start an ITF, then either I watch you kill yourself (in game of course) or I see first hand that what you're saying is true. Until I see it in game I'm not going to believe it.

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Sally

 

"Sally is a monster that roams the lake of Salamanca in Croatoa."

 

"According to the City of Heroes Giant Monster Guide, Sally resurfaces 30 to 45 minutes after she is defeated."

 

What does it matter if you actually said the word "easily" or not? You're claiming that a TF designed to be a challenge for teams can be soloed by a Blaster. Easily is implied there regardless of if you actually said the word since that shouldn't even be possible at all. So either that is in fact your claim or you're retracting that claim and admitting it can't be done.

That's kind of the point of scaling... so it is balanced for both a team of level 35 and a team of level 50. If it wasn't balanced it would be either too difficult for a team of 35 to do or too easy for a team of level 50's... and frankly if you can solo it then that sounds like something is broken and not scaling properly.

 

By the way the purpose of Incarnate really doesn't even exist in the game. They were building up to the Coming Storm, whatever that was going to be. And never finished the Incarnate content before the servers shut down. The final Incarnate Slot isn't even suppose to be the Hybrid slot, that's just as far as they got released before the live servers shut down.

 

Genesis, Mind, Vitae, and Omega were planned to be released later down the line. So essentially without that event that was planned and never released there is no actual purpose of Incarnate anyway... Other than just giving you something to do when you reach level 50.

 

Personally I feel like I've ascended to another power level every time I unlock a new power. I don't need enemies to suddenly be incredibly weak for that. I mean if that's all it takes for you, go hunt some greys in Atlas Park, you'll feel like a god tier hero before you've even reached Incarnate status.

@MunkiLordis correct.  If you see the list of GMs here: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Giant_Monster it makes a special note stating that Sally is NOT a GM.  But, I'm also assuming you'll look at the evidence presented to you.  Evidence can be real pesky sometimes.

[Omega-202]

5 hours ago, RialVestro said:

Nothing scales to Incarnates? So is this where you try to convince me that Incarnate trials are soloable too?

 

And by the way, I'm not refusing to look at the evidence. You simply haven't shown any evidence in the first place. If you wanna meet me in game we'll start an ITF and then you can prove you can solo that crap. Though I highly doubt you'd ever accept that challenge cause you know it can't actually be done.

As I said above. Meet me in game. We start an ITF, then either I watch you kill yourself (in game of course) or I see first hand that what you're saying is true. Until I see it in game I'm not going to believe it.

 

A) Incarnate trials dont scale at all.  They are always at a set level.  Have you ever even run one?

 

B) I'm game to walk you through a solo'd ITF.  On the condition that you give me your login info after I prove you wrong so I can delete all of your characters.  You must also agree to never create a new account.  If you're cool with that wager, I'll set up on the test server and we can figure out a date to run it. 

 

Being that you're too much of a moron to even watch the posted run video, I doubt you have the balls to put up or shut up.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Omega-202

[MunkiLord]

27 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

A) Incarnate trials dont scale at all.  They are always at a set level.  Have you ever even run one?

 

B) I'm game to walk you through a solo'd ITF.  On the condition that you give me your login info after I prove you wrong so I can delete all of your characters.  You must also agree to never create a new account.  If you're cool with that wager, I'll set up on the test server and we can figure out a date to run it. 

 

Being that you're too much of a moron to even watch the posted run video, I doubt you have the balls to put up or shut up.

If this happens I'll completely fund the build. You probably don't need me to, but I'd do it anyway. 

[jshmoe1236123]

38 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

A) Incarnate trials dont scale at all.  They are always at a set level.  Have you ever even run one?

 

B) I'm game to walk you through a solo'd ITF.  On the condition that you give me your login info after I prove you wrong so I can delete all of your characters.  You must also agree to never create a new account.  If you're cool with that wager, I'll set up on the test server and we can figure out a date to run it. 

 

Being that you're too much of a moron to even watch the posted run video, I doubt you have the balls to put up or shut up.

This is good. It's supposedly impossible to do so there shouldn't be any problem taking you up on this deal. Right?!

[Omega-202]

17 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

If this happens I'll completely fund the build. You probably don't need me to, but I'd do it anyway. 

I'd do it on test so its free.  We can make a spectacle of it and have a bunch of people come watch him get embarassed.  Hell, anyone confident in their skills can also make their own 50 Blaster and we can take turns making him look like an ass.

[EmmySky]

2 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

...we can take turns making him look like an ass.

Does he need the help?

[MunkiLord]

12 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

Does he need the help?

Touché

[jshmoe1236123]

Is this the equivalent of meeting by the flag pole after school? Love to watch this. 

[jshmoe1236123]

30 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

A) Yes I have and they do actually scale though since they can ONLY be run at level 50 to begin with you're not going to notice much of a difference.

 

B) On the off chance that you can prove me wrong it's going to be very hard for me to admit it if I don't have an account to play on anymore. Plus this wasn't a bet to begin with. You asked what it take to prove you could do it. I told you. If it were a bet however the odds would have to be equal on both sides. In other words, what do I get when you get your ass kicked by Romulus and those lesser Nictus? I don't care about your account information. I don't give a shit if you keep playing. All I really want from you if I win is for you to change the way you talk to us. In other words if you ever do catch one of us being wrong, do it without the "I'm so perfect" attitude you got going on. No one is perfect, we all make mistakes some times so cool it with your superiority complex.

It'll be super easy, barely an inconvenience. Create an account, get the game client, hop on the test server, make yourself 50, and watch your stance crumble before your eyes. 

[MunkiLord]

50 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

If you really want to be that nit picky and technical about everything. I never claimed you said it said it was easy. I only said you IMPLIED it was easy. 

Don't be stupid, it's on the last page, you said, "Sorry you're claiming that something designed to be a challenge for teams can be easily soloed"  Those are your actual words. So you did indeed say that. Again, you don't have to be a liar.

 

So you're just gonna deflect and ignore the fact that you were wrong about Sally being a Giant Monster? Were you simply mistaken again, or did you know that and just lie again?

 

40 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

A) Yes I have and they do actually scale though since they can ONLY be run at level 50 to begin with you're not going to notice much of a difference.

 

B) On the off chance that you can prove me wrong it's going to be very hard for me to admit it if I don't have an account to play on anymore. Plus this wasn't a bet to begin with. You asked what it take to prove you could do it. I told you. If it were a bet however the odds would have to be equal on both sides. In other words, what do I get when you get your ass kicked by Romulus and those lesser Nictus? I don't care about your account information. I don't give a shit if you keep playing. All I really want from you if I win is for you to change the way you talk to us. In other words if you ever do catch one of us being wrong, do it without the "I'm so perfect" attitude you got going on. No one is perfect, we all make mistakes some times so cool it with your superiority complex.

 

You're not making a mistake. You are intentionally ignoring facts, intentionally distorting the truth, and generally full of shit. You should be thankful at how nice everyone is treating you.

Edited October 30, 2019 by MunkiLord

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, RialVestro said:

lol I love the reference.

 

Seriously though... I'll make a post the next time I'm home with how long I'm going to be home... and hopefully at a time where I actually have power. Freaking PG&E... We'll jump on the Excelsior, start an ITF. I'll help you with everything except Romulus and the Lesser Nictus in the final mission. You beat that on your own I'll put it into every chat channel possible right then and there that I was wrong. You die, you do the same. You don't even show up at the time I set, you don't even talk to me anymore. That's my deal.

First, you don't need to post in all the chat channels. Everyone here already knows you're wrong and full of shit. Second, you have yet to say anything about a Master ITF, so why is no dying allowed all of a sudden? You're changing the rules and how the challenge has been framed. There is absolutely a difference between doing an ITF and a Master Of ITF. Funny how once again you've been misleading in what you say.

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, RialVestro said:

"Don't be stupid, it's on the last page, you said, "Sorry you're claiming that something designed to be a challenge for teams can be easily soloed"  Those are your actual words. So you did indeed say that. Again, you don't have to be a liar."

 

Yes I said it, but I didn't say YOU said it. Again you IMPLIED it. Do you see quotation marks around the words easily soloed in that quote? No because it's not a direct quote of what you said. I was paraphrasing what you had implied. 

 

"You should be thankful at how nice everyone is treating you."

 

Nice? You just called me stupid, a liar, ignorant, and that's just in this post. Nothing about how you're treating us is nice. It's rude, disrespectful, arrogant, and bordering on harassment.

Again, I didn't imply it either, I even said I didn't stick to melee against Rom. You are actively making up the hidden implication of me doing a solo Master ITF. Still ignoring the Sally monster/GM mistake I see, and you expect anyone to believe you that you will admit you're wrong when you have yet to do it once?

 

Again going back to Sally, you were clearly ignorant(lacking knowledge) since she is a monster and not a giant monster. That is a factual statement. Unless you knew better and made the claim anyway, in which case you would be a liar. So.....................best case you're one of them. I'm thinking both, but hey, I've been wrong before!

[MunkiLord]

2 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

What are you even talking about right now? The challenge was for you to prove you can solo the ITF. Nothing about that has been changed. No one even mentioned a Master of ITF. It looks to me like you're misleading.

Then if it's not a Master, why does anyone have to admit they were wrong if they die? Dying is allowed in a Task Force.

[MunkiLord]

21 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

"You are actively making up the hidden implication of me doing a solo Master ITF."

 

Haven't made up anything. You said you could solo the ITF. That's all we've been talking about this entire time is soloing the ITF.

 

"Still ignoring the Sally monster/GM mistake I see"

 

Not ignoring it, I already addressed with a Paragon wiki page that even links to a list of Giant Monsters. Once again you're being nit picky. Are you also going to try to claim I'm wrong if I call Lord Recluse an AV if he only spawns as an EB? It's a technicality. There's also a version of Lord Reculse that spawns as a normal boss.

 

"Again going back to Sally, you were clearly ignorant(lacking knowledge) since she is a monster and not a giant monster. That is a factual statement. Unless you knew better and made the claim anyway, in which case you would be a liar. So.....................best case you're one of them. I'm thinking both, but hey, I've been wrong before!"

 

And you would be wrong in both cases now. I didn't actively lie because she is a Monster. You admitted that yourself. There is very little difference between a Monster and a Giant Monster, they're both freaking MONSTERS so you're just being a dick over a minor technicality.

 

Since we're talking about ignoring things are you ever going to address the fact that you only seem to care about such minor technicalities when they work in your favor? When they work against you suddenly you don't care about exact wording anymore.

My bad, that was a typo on my part. I definitely said I did a Master ITF, the part you made up is that I implied it was easy. 

 

There is a significant difference between a monster and a Giant Monster, how it cons to a character, Regen, HP, etc. They are separate classes of enemies, your statement saying it's nit picky is again a demonstration of your ignorance of game mechanics. And fighting Lord Recluse as an AV vs as an Elite Boss is more than a technicality, it's a completely different class of enemy. You do realize this right?

 

Did you really, truly not know that monsters and giant monsters are different classes of enemies? 

[MunkiLord]

29 minutes ago, RialVestro said:

Because if you die there is zero chance you're going to beat him. Duh. You can't beat the TF if you're dead.

You can just rez or go to the hospital. Death isn't permanent. So again, why this artificial restriction?

[Widower]

Hello. Please do not eat each others faces; I do not want to clean the (metaphorical) floors. Thank you.

[Rikmach]

On 10/24/2019 at 4:06 PM, Doc_Scorpion said:

The original version of Defiance didn't help matters any - because it encouraged Blasters to get in close and operate right at the red line.

Well, this was prior to Defiance even existing-  Keep in mind, the only Archetypes that had their Archetype abilities when Beta was complete was scrappers and Tankers.  Defiance 1.0 was an effort to *fix* Blaster problems even after they added the control/debuff powers to the secondaries.

[Rikmach]

On 10/24/2019 at 4:25 PM, Haijinx said:

Some of the best melee attacks in the game are in blaster secondaries.  

 

As well as some pretty decent control effects. 

 

And the sustain powers are pretty impressive on a per power basis.

 

Well, remember, Sustain is new.  It wasn't added in until near the end of the game's lifetime.   As said, Blasters Started out having ranged primaries and melee secondaries, only to have the secondaries given control/debuff powers, and when *that* didn't solve the issue, they got Defiance 1.0, and when *that* didn't work, they got Defiance 2.0, and when *that* wasn't enough, they got Sustain.

 

Blasters have had a bit of a hard time of it.

[Omega-202]

5 hours ago, GM Widower said:

Hello. Please do not eat each others faces; I do not want to clean the (metaphorical) floors. Thank you.

I would recommend closing this thread.  It's completely devolved from its initial discussion and just become a dozen people telling one person they are wrong about every facet of the game.  Rial can't be helped and its just wasting everyone's time.