Idea: a No Buying Challenge

[MunkiLord]

On 11/22/2019 at 11:08 AM, Yomo Kimyata said:

I'm also trying to figure out what to run next for content/merits.  I guess aim for story arcs.  I could also just do them directly through Ouro, but I prefer to do them directly with the contact.  That's inefficient, but that's how I roll.

When was the last time you did some of the old Devouring Earth arcs? Been a long time for me, so that could be interesting? 

[Riverdusk]

I love hearing about interesting challenges people do in this game.  I might try something like this some day, but I'd probably make an exception for salvage only.  Don't think I'd like to be forced into doing AE that much.  Continued good luck to you!

[Riverdusk]

On 11/13/2019 at 1:25 PM, nihilii said:

Very cool idea. Might steal it.

I've done a streetsweeping-only character, and it's amazing how different the game can feel when you put these constraints on yourself. Revisiting or exploring so many places we're used to zoom by. And the game really holds up as such; even as momentum moved to instances very early, devs still took care to fill the zones with appropriate encounters.

Cool idea as well, very old school.  

[Bionic_Flea]

Question: Why sell anything if you can't buy anything?  By that I mean, what do you need influence for?  I saw a snippet that you might (or did) convert cash to merits but wouldn't that violate the no-buying rule?

 

This isn't a criticism.  You play as you want and set whatever rules you want.  I'm just trying to understand what your rules are.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Question: Why sell anything if you can't buy anything?  By that I mean, what do you need influence for?  I saw a snippet that you might (or did) convert cash to merits but wouldn't that violate the no-buying rule?

 

This isn't a criticism.  You play as you want and set whatever rules you want.  I'm just trying to understand what your rules are.

Influence is saved for if/when I need to buy merits for 1mm a pop from the merit broker.  Then they would be used to either buy converters or recipes from the merit broker.  My loose guidelines is anything that is fixed price through a vendor is fair game, although I restricted myself a little further than that.

 

The overall point was I wanted to see how hard it would be to build an uber build without farming or PLing or playing the market -- just through normal but educated play and use of the conversion system.  Not hard at all.  But I also hoped to demonstrate how ridiculously easy it is to do the same with the market.  At this point in HC, only a brand new player should have any hiccups about optimizing their build at any point in the game without any regards for inf, imo.

[Roderick]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Question: Why sell anything if you can't buy anything?  By that I mean, what do you need influence for?  I saw a snippet that you might (or did) convert cash to merits but wouldn't that violate the no-buying rule?

 

This isn't a criticism.  You play as you want and set whatever rules you want.  I'm just trying to understand what your rules are.

If you want to craft IOs, you need Inf to do so, even if you're only using the recipes that drop.

[Bionic_Flea]

9 minutes ago, Roderick said:

If you want to craft IOs, you need Inf to do so, even if you're only using the recipes that drop.

True.   But unless you are planning on doing lots of crafting, I think you'd get enough just playing and vendoring.  Maybe not, though.

[Bionic_Flea]

15 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

My loose guidelines is anything that is fixed price through a vendor is fair game

Makes sense.  Thanks!

[Ukase]

On 11/20/2019 at 4:31 AM, nihilii said:

Oh God. Repressed memories flooding back. Wasting so many empyreans on merits because I didn't know any better and thought I'd keep earning threads and empys every vet level. Then having nothing left to craft incarnate stuff. 🙂

I think I hit vet level 100 before I had T4 everything. Embarrassing.

You think that's bad? I spent 100 million twice on a very rare because I thought that was the only way to get it! 

[Fan Mail]

Were you able to 50 this guy?

[Yomo Kimyata]

3 hours ago, Fan Mail said:

Were you able to 50 this guy?

I'm embarrassed to tell you I shelved him at 36.  He was my first MM, and I really didn't enjoy playing him.  Once I had proof of concept, I kind of lost interest.  I think that I could come back to him now that I understand MM a bit more, and maybe try to Mids a build rather than just put it together on the fly.  Maybe I'll work on that after my current project, which is a 7-person villain group, named and powered after the Seven Sins.

[Bionic_Flea]

I have to know which sin you are!

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I have to know which sin you are!

All seven!

 

Obsidian Wrath -- SS/WP brute

Obsidian Pride -- Mind/Psionic Assault dominator

Obsidian Sloth -- TW/Stone Armor brute

Obsidian Envy -- Beam Rifle/Poison corruptor

Obsidian Gluttony -- Electric/Kinetic corruptor

Obsidian Lust -- Archery/Pain corruptor

Obsidian Greed -- Gravity/Energy dominator

 

Some of them are a lot more fun to play than others...

[Fan Mail]

You can't be named Obsidian and NOT have Dark Armor.  THAT is a sin.  Wait...????

[Yomo Kimyata]

With the recent changes to farming, I wanted to revisit this model.  I've seen a lot of backlash against people being forced to use marketing, and I'm testing a new model that would follow a very simple set of rules and keep interaction with the AH to a minimum.  I expect to come to the conclusion that by level X, you can have Y inf by following this really simple, extremely suboptimal model.

 

More on those rules later, but I'd like to solicit your opinions on one thing.  This model will necessarily have to involve some crafting, some converting, and some selling on the AH.  What would you suggest as a super simple set of rules that could be followed by anyone and would minimize decisions and interaction with the AH?

 

My current thoughts:

1.  Save every invention recipe that does not require rare salvage.  Vendor every other recipe.  (This leaves lots on the plate, like PvP or LotG recipes).

2.  Every 5 levels, craft every recipe.  If you don't have the needed common or uncommon salvage, buy it on the AH for the seeded amount (10k or 100k).  (This is a guaranteed trade.)

3.  Convert by category until you get a rare.  If you don't have converters, trade in merits for converters.

4.  If the lowest price in the Last 5 history is > 1mm, offer your IO at 5 inf.

5.  If the lowest price in the Last 5 is <= 1mm, convert once by rarity, goto 4.

 

This is HUGELY suboptimal, would leave SO much inf on the table, and yet I still think it would generate a lot of inf.  I could tweak this rules by making them more complicated, but that would also make it harder for really simple users.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Bionic_Flea]

My suggestions:

 

1.  Don't buy TOs, DOs, or SOs.  It's OK to slot what drops.  If you can't slot it, vendor it.

2.  Vendor all common IO recipes (unless you are going for badges). 

3.  Craft everything you can if you don't have to buy salvage, especially lower level recipes.

4.  Post your crafted IOs on the market.  Price it 1 inf lower than the average price.  If you find the price is too low, grab it, convert it, re-list it.

5.  Plan your build on Mids before buying anything.

6.  Buy attuned sets as you can afford them while leveling.  You'll never have to replace them.  BUT you can buy a cheap attuned set today, and then replace with a purple or other more expensive set later using unslotters or a respec.  Save that cheaper set for your next project.

 

Additional thought:  Do things that get you merits!  AE farming is fine and radios/newspapers are fine but don't limit yourself to those.  Run story arcs, TFs, and get all the exploration badges in a zone to get merits.  Trade merits for converters.  Use converters to turn junk IOs into highly desired IOs.  Many people sell the converters.  That's certainly easy enough.  But I never sell converters; I use them.

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Bionic_Flea

[Gremlin]

FWIW I have a toon that was inspired by this thread and a couple of discussions. I wanted to see if I could kit her out without any market knowledge, farming or trading. Her only sources of inf are:-

• getting merits for exploration badges and buying unslotters with them
• listing drops at the going rate
• crafting and selling recipes that drop

Restrictions are:-

• cannot use the  P2W vendor for anything
• no door missions
• no teams
• cannot use converters
• can buy enhancements to slot
• can buy recipes to craft and slot
• can buy salvage
• can bid low

So far she's at level 27 and has a pretty shiny build. Most of her powers are slotted with cheap sets. Some are attuned and some are not. Smashing Haymakers are about 60k to buy and craft! The key thing is that her build is rammed with uniques. She has:-

• Gladiator's Armor +DEF
• Steadfast Protection +DEF
• Kismet Accuracy
• Panacea +Hit Points/Endurance
• Regenerative Tissue: Regeneration
• Numina's Regen/Recovery

I've not had many tasty recipes drop but each piece of vendor trash makes a few hundred k. If I did door missions instead then I wouldn't need to do the exploration badges and I'd probably be a lot richer! As it is, it looks like I'll have a complete build by level 50. It won't be a top end build but it'll be a lot more impressive than I was expecting.

[Gremlin]

To answer @Yomo Kimyata. My suggestions for minimal marketing are very similar to @Bionic_Flea so l'll just mention the differences:-

• convert merits to unslotters and sell them
• sell salvage that drops
• buy salvage as you need it
• craft and sell all uncommon recipes
• craft and sell rare recipes unless the recipe sells for less than 100k at the market (maybe someone can refine this a bit)

Plan to slot cheap attuned sets while you're levelling. If you feel like it you can replace them with more expensive sets when you've got the inf.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I’m bumping up against the same problem I did last time.  Yellow recipes just don’t drop often enough for an unsophisticated marketeer to gain tons of inf. ive been getting 5-10 every 5 levels in standard +1/x1 play. 
 

 A really simple algorithm could easily net someone 500k+ per craft/convert, but in order to make lots of inf, you either need some knowledge or you need to buy yellows from the AH.

[Gremlin]

5 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Yellow recipes just don’t drop often enough for an unsophisticated marketeer to gain tons of inf. ive been getting 5-10 every 5 levels in standard +1/x1 play. 

I found the same thing. However, I've noticed that my toons seem to get a couple of PvP recipes at low to mid levels. Sadly I haven't kept records so I don't know how common this is.

 

For my limited trading toon, the bulk of her inf has come from a small number of high value recipe drops and merits. Rare salvage and yellow recipes make up the rest. I'd guess that yellow recipes have made up 10-20% of her income to level 25. She isn't going to have a 1 bn inf build by level 50 but it will be a solid mid-range build.

[Gremlin]

Most of my 50s have levelled in duos doing story arcs on single XP. The duo is usually fighting at +1x8 or by level 50. I'd guess these toons have around 600 merits by level 50 and have earned about 50 to 100 mm inf from defeats. Adding in recipe drops I'd be surprised if a toon makes less than 450 mm this way.