pvp only accolades

[Firi]

As posted in the pvp section, pvp accolades in some form - temp, perm, w.e - would go great lengths to build the pvp community and long term allow people to have a much lower bar to entry into PvPing at a competative level. See the thread in pvp forum

[macskull]

Yes please.

[LaVar Ball]

Good idea. Would make it much easier for players to get into PvP and play characters they enjoy.

[Razor Cure]

But what WOULD they be? All the current accolades work just fine in pvp (mostly). Having pvp only accolades would just serve to widen the gap between the hardcore 'Io'd to the gills with purps and pvp set' crowd, and the rest. Although Id hazard a guess there is a lot less casual pvping now, compared to Live. ANd if the only worked in pvp..that is even less incentive for casual players to actually go out and get them (assuming they were earned via pvp?).

Edited August 30, 2019 by Razor Cure

[macskull]

17 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

But what WOULD they be? All the current accolades work just fine in pvp (mostly). Having pvp only accolades would just serve to widen the gap between the hardcore 'Io'd to the gills with purps and pvp set' crowd, and the rest. Although Id hazard a guess there is a lot less casual pvping now, compared to Live. ANd if the only worked in pvp..that is even less incentive for casual players to actually go out and get them (assuming they were earned via pvp?).

You are fundamentally misunderstanding what the OP is asking for - he's asking for the existing accolade powers to be available for PvP (arena/zone/whatever) without having to grind PvE content to unlock them, not asking for new PvP-specific accolades. With the current state of PvP the stat-boosting accolades are pretty much a requirement to be competitive.

[PaxArcana]

7 minutes ago, macskull said:

he's asking for the existing accolade powers to be available for PvP (arena/zone/whatever) without having to grind PvE content to unlock them,

... in that case, /JRanger.

[Razor Cure]

He was asking that? Either it was not very clear..or I totally missed it. lol.

Even if all the 'required; Accolades for pvp (4+ attribute, 2 click powers) were change to be earnable (is that a word? it is now) from a pvp zone...that would STILL really only matter to the pvp crowd anyway. Some of those accos have grindy/annoying bits (100 fake nems for example, needing to DO bloody snyapse), and placing those in pvp zones wcould be worse.

100 Fake Nems becomes 100 Toxix Tarts, IN a pvp zone. Yeah, gonna be fun.

DimWarder needs ALL the sig heroes + villains (which still isnt 14) in RV. Having done that a few times, I know it can take agees, even longer in the other side gets in the way.

I cant see that bring a heap of new people into pvp.

[PaxArcana]

What worries me is:

First, it's "add these to PvP so we don't have to PvE".

Then, it's "Take the PvE way to get these out of the game, so everyone has to PvP to get them because that means more people doing PvP."

 

I've seen that attempt before in other games.  Hell, I've seen similar done in this game, on Live, back around i8 or i10.  The goal isn't really to get more people to enjoy PvP.  The goal is to get more people to be victims in PvP.

[macskull]

33 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

He was asking that? Either it was not very clear..or I totally missed it. lol.

Even if all the 'required; Accolades for pvp (4+ attribute, 2 click powers) were change to be earnable (is that a word? it is now) from a pvp zone...that would STILL really only matter to the pvp crowd anyway. Some of those accos have grindy/annoying bits (100 fake nems for example, needing to DO bloody snyapse), and placing those in pvp zones wcould be worse.

100 Fake Nems becomes 100 Toxix Tarts, IN a pvp zone. Yeah, gonna be fun.

DimWarder needs ALL the sig heroes + villains (which still isnt 14) in RV. Having done that a few times, I know it can take agees, even longer in the other side gets in the way.

I cant see that bring a heap of new people into pvp.

I suppose OP should have been more specific with what he was asking for - not another way to unlock the accolades via PvP content, but simply having the accolade powers granted on a temporary basis as long as you are in a PvP zone or the arena. As soon as you leave one of those areas the power(s) would be disabled again. The goal here isn't "bring more people into PvP by making them go into PvP zones to get PvE rewards" but rather "remove some of the grind from making a competitive PvP character by auto-granting accolade powers in a PvP environment."

15 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

What worries me is:

First, it's "add these to PvP so we don't have to PvE".

Then, it's "Take the PvE way to get these out of the game, so everyone has to PvP to get them because that means more people doing PvP."

 

I've seen that attempt before in other games.  Hell, I've seen similar done in this game, on Live, back around i8 or i10.  The goal isn't really to get more people to enjoy PvP.  The goal is to get more people to be victims in PvP.

See my reply to the first quote in this post, where I explain what exactly is being asked for. Now that you mention it though I am curious what exactly you're referring to happening in that timeframe, as I'm not aware of any times where a PvE method of obtaining something has been removed and/or replaced entirely by a PvP method. The goal here is to lower the barrier to having a competitive PvP build.

[Megajoule]

Can this be done on the test server? If so, I submit the answer is "go to Justin."

[macskull]

So, if the ability to do this has to be added into the game in the first place, why would I want that restricted only to the test server? That's more work than just adding it to the normal servers because then you'd have to disable it every time you wanted to push a patch to live, and re-enable it every time you pushed a new patch to test. That would also require me to load onto the test server every time I want to PvP, which isn't practical for several reasons, not the least of which is the test server is sometimes home to experimental or buggy powers or mechanics. "Go to the test server" shouldn't be an answer.

 

Adding this feature to the game has literally zero effect on non-PvP content and addresses a hugely popular PvP QoL request that goes back almost to when PvP was introduced to the game.

Edited August 30, 2019 by macskull

[Megajoule]

I mean that in the sense of "can that be added to the list of stuff that can be instantly granted via menu there?"  Which is existing functionality of the test server, and doesn't (as far as I know) need to be patched out of live builds - or, if so, the process for doing so seems fairly well established.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Megajoule

[macskull]

That still doesn't solve the issue of having to PvP on the test server. Sometimes that's okay, but it shouldn't be the go-to answer. If someone is taking the time to add that feature in, why not do it on the live servers?

[PaxArcana]

53 minutes ago, macskull said:

I am curious what exactly you're referring to happening

The attempts weren't successful.

But the Live PVP community, at least early after CoV's launch (issue 6), was constantly, regularly, like clockwork making suggestions that would have forced PvE players into the PvP zones.  To the point where anything even edging slightly close to that sort of thing, starts waving great big red flags all over the place, for me.

[macskull]

Just now, PaxArcana said:

The attempts weren't successful.

But the Live PVP community, at least early after CoV's launch (issue 6), was constantly, regularly, like clockwork making suggestions that would have forced PvE players into the PvP zones.  To the point where anything even edging slightly close to that sort of thing, starts waving great big red flags all over the place, for me.

Can you give me any examples? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm honestly curious.

[PaxArcana]

1 minute ago, macskull said:

Can you give me any examples?

Um.  Since I left CoX when Issue 13 was still the current state of the game, I'm talking about a timeframe of 11 to 14 years ago, right?  (And, tending closer to 14 than to 11.)  So no, I don't remember any specific details from that far back.  I just remember, at least once every other week, finding "yet another make people go to the PvP zone" thread in the Suggestions forums.

 

In general, vague terms, things like "making at least one mission of every TF or SF happen in a PvP zone", so that anyone doing the TF would have to go into a PvP zone, even if they hated PvP.

 

Or - very similar to this thread, I think you'll agree - changing some accolade's requirements, especially exploration badges, so you had to go into PvP zones to get them.  Want the shiny accolade?  Go PVP for it, or live without.

 

Always, the goal claimed was "to increase the population in PvP zones, which is good, right?"  The unstated reality, however, was that the majority of that "increased population" would have no interest in PvP at all, would not have a PvP build, and would have little or no PvP skill.  They would essentially just be victims on a menu for the less-honorable in the PvP community.  And when the people making or supporting the latest suggestion had that pointed out to them, you know what the most common term used by them, was?

"Carebear".

...

So, yeah.  Big red flags.  Sorry (not sorry).

[macskull]

4 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

Um.  Since I left CoX when Issue 13 was still the current state of the game, I'm talking about a timeframe of 11 to 14 years ago, right?  (And, tending closer to 14 than to 11.)  So no, I don't remember any specific details from that far back.  I just remember, at least once every other week, finding "yet another make people go to the PvP zone" thread in the Suggestions forums.

 

In general, vague terms, things like "making at least one mission of every TF or SF happen in a PvP zone", so that anyone doing the TF would have to go into a PvP zone, even if they hated PvP.

 

Or - very similar to this thread, I think you'll agree - changing some accolade's requirements, especially exploration badges, so you had to go into PvP zones to get them.  Want the shiny accolade?  Go PVP for it, or live without.

 

Always, the goal claimed was "to increase the population in PvP zones, which is good, right?"  The unstated reality, however, was that the majority of that "increased population" would have no interest in PvP at all, would not have a PvP build, and would have little or no PvP skill.  They would essentially just be victims on a menu for the less-honorable in the PvP community.  And when the people making or supporting the latest suggestion had that pointed out to them, you know what the most common term used by them, was?

"Carebear".

...

So, yeah.  Big red flags.  Sorry (not sorry).

FWIW there are still some villain accolade powers tied to exploration badges in PvP zones. Said zones are dead enough these days where you'll never see another soul while you're in there. The simplest way to deal with that when the zones were more active was to just go in at a time when there weren't many people around, get the badge, and get out. If you died once or twice, oh well, you came back later.

 

I think the logic with trying to get more people into PvP zones was this - if you got 10 extra people into a PvP zone, and even one of them had a bit of fun and got curious and decided to come back later, that was a good thing. It is unfortunate that a large portion of the zone PvP population was, and still is, the bottom of the barrel, and enjoyed broadcast PvP almost as much as they enjoyed actual PvP.

 

Regardless of where you stand on the discussion we're having, now that it's been explained what exactly OP is asking for I'm pretty sure you can un-/jranger the idea, no?

[boggo2300]

Anything with even the chance of forcing me into a PVP zone (hell I'm still unhappy about the pvp badges) gets a huge NO WAY from me

[Bionic_Flea]

How about giving an inf sink to the Sirens Call vendor -- Purchasable accolades for one hour of time, usable only in pvp zones or arena?

Edited August 31, 2019 by Bionic_Flea

[kelly Rocket]

Eh. I'm OK with making those accolades possible to be earned in PvP zones, but only if they only function in PvP zones.

 

I'm just automatically against anything you can get from PvP zones giving you any kind of advantage in PvE whatsoever.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by kelly Rocket

[macskull]

35 minutes ago, kelly Rocket said:

Eh. I'm OK with making those accolades possible to be earned in PvP zones, but only if they only function in PvP zones.

 

I'm just automatically against anything you can get from PvP zones giving you any kind of advantage in PvE whatsoever.

 

 

So... Shivan Shard, the Warburg nukes, Born in Battle, Marshal, Stolen Immobilizer Ray, and Megalomaniac, to name a few?

 

The original intent of the OP was to have PvP-only accolades granted automatically while in a PvP environment that function equivalently to the PvE ones but only while you're in a PvP zone.

[kelly Rocket]

27 minutes ago, macskull said:

So... Shivan Shard, the Warburg nukes, Born in Battle, Marshal, Stolen Immobilizer Ray, and Megalomaniac, to name a few?

 

The original intent of the OP was to have PvP-only accolades granted automatically while in a PvP environment that function equivalently to the PvE ones but only while you're in a PvP zone.

Yeah, I wish they would remove ths Shivans, the Nukes, etc from the game, or else make them available through PvE. It's one of the issues I've always had with the game, ever since the old days.

 

In fact, I kind of wish they would just split PvP and PvE into entirely separate games, like you used to see with single player and deathmatch on some old FPS games. Completely separate games.

[Razor Cure]

43 minutes ago, macskull said:

So... Shivan Shard, the Warburg nukes, Born in Battle, Marshal, Stolen Immobilizer Ray, and Megalomaniac, to name a few?

 

To be honest these accolades are all Villain side..and just goes on that list of 'stupidly baised towards blueside' crap. I mean crap BECAUSE it is true. I totally agree those accolades should have been changed forever ago, dead pvp zones or no.

4 hours ago, macskull said:

The goal here isn't "bring more people into PvP by making them go into PvP zones to get PvE rewards" but rather "remove some of the grind from making a competitive PvP character by auto-granting accolade powers in a PvP environment."

Auto granting them in pvp? That seems..unfair. So you pvp, but dont WANT to pve, but hey, you can just go ahead and have these super handy accolade powers..just cause.

Does that also then mean, if you really really wanna pvp, you HAVE to earn those 50 levels in a pvp zone? Stands to reason. Although, since the lowest pvp zone is 15? 20?, good luck with that!

Or what about alll those enhancements you basically need to have a competative build? That's right, you cant earn them in pve anymore, since you only want to pvp. Have fun farming then in pvp zones, with pvp 'rules' nerfing half your powers.

Ok, I admit, I am being silly, but that point stands..getting auto accolades just because you want to pvp is wrong. It would make sense, at least to me, to simply have them obtainable via pvp zones, so those who love it can spend more time doing what they enjoy.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Razor Cure

[MunkiLord]

This is a reasonable request to me. Most of the posts against this suggestion are simply because most people don't like PvP, so I don't find them credible. If this will largely make the PvP community happy, I'm all for it. 

[kelly Rocket]

4 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

This is a reasonable request to me. Most of the posts against this suggestion are simply because most people don't like PvP, so I don't find them credible. If this will largely make the PvP community happy, I'm all for it. 

More of a parity thing. If they get to get their accolades in PvP, we shouldn't have to go into PvP zones to get Shivans, Nukes, etc, etc.