Failed Experiment (elec/elec help needed)

EmmySky · November 30, 2019

The experiment: Someone told me that common level 30 IOs would function as SO++ even at level 50, so this is what Sinnocence used. She sucks. I used my post-ED SO only slotting knowledge and I apparently suck also. I don't want to hate her, but I kinda do now. Rerolling is not out of the question, and certainly I am willing to respec her, multiple times if need be, if she can be salvaged. If anyone can get me a nice, not too expensive, build to make best use of her primary and secondary, also I prefer SJ for travel, I might learn to love her again. Thanks for your time!

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
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Sinnocence: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Accuracy IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO

Level 1: Charged Armor

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Resist Damage IO
(50) Resist Damage IO

Level 2: Lightning Field

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Accuracy IO
(50) Accuracy IO

Level 4: Havoc Punch

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Accuracy IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO

Level 6: Jacobs Ladder

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Accuracy IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO

Level 8: Conductive Shield

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Resist Damage IO
(50) Resist Damage IO

Level 10: Super Jump

(A) Jumping IO

Level 12: Build Up

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(50) To Hit Buff IO

Level 14: Static Shield

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Resist Damage IO
(50) Resist Damage IO

Level 16: Thunder Strike

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Accuracy IO
(50) Disorient Duration IO

Level 18: Grounded

(A) Resist Damage IO
(50) Resist Damage IO
(50) Resist Damage IO

Level 20: Chain Induction

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Accuracy IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO

Level 22: Energize

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Healing IO
(50) Healing IO
(50) Healing IO

Level 24: Combat Jumping

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Defense Buff IO

Level 26: Lightning Clap

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Accuracy IO
(50) Disorient Duration IO

Level 28: Lightning Reflexes

(A) Run Speed IO
(50) Flight Speed IO
(50) Run Speed IO
(50) Flight Speed IO
(50) Run Speed IO
(50) Flight Speed IO

Level 30: Acrobatics

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Knockback Distance IO

Level 32: Lightning Rod

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Accuracy IO
(50) Damage Increase IO

Level 35: Power Sink

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO

Level 38: Power Surge

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Resist Damage IO
(50) Resist Damage IO

Level 41: Conserve Power

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 44: Focused Accuracy

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) To Hit Buff IO
(50) To Hit Buff IO

Level 47: Physical Perfection

(A) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Healing IO
(50) Healing IO
(50) Healing IO

Level 49: Spring Attack

(A) Endurance Reduction IO
(50) Accuracy IO

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Damage Increase IO

Level 1: Critical Hit

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

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Caulderone · November 30, 2019

You are a damage oriented class, and you have nearly zero damage slotting. You have Power Sink and you are still massively slotted for endurance reduction. Neither of these seems a good choice to me. If you went for some cheap set IOs, you could frankenslot and get lots of benefit. But, here is a framework I would start from using just level 30 IOs and a Kismet +tohit (worst case, save up some merits for it). Note: Power Surge sucks, skip it.

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
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Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(7), Dmg-I:30(9), Dmg-I:30(9)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- EndRdx-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(3), ResDam-I:30(3), ResDam-I:30(5)
Level 2: Havoc Punch -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(13), Dmg-I:30(15), Dmg-I:30(15), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(17), Dmg-I:30(19), Dmg-I:30(19), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(27)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(27), Dmg-I:30(29), Dmg-I:30(29), RechRdx-I:50(37), RechRdx-I:50(42)
Level 10: Conductive Shield -- EndRdx-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(11), ResDam-I:30(11), ResDam-I:30(13)
Level 12: Static Shield -- EndRdx-I:30(A), ResDam-I:50(40), ResDam-I:50(40)
Level 14: Super Jump -- EndRdx-I:30(A)
Level 16: Grounded -- ResDam-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(17)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(33), Dmg-I:30(33), Dmg-I:30(33), RechRdx-I:50(39), RechRdx-I:50(42)
Level 20: Energize -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(21), Heal-I:30(21), Heal-I:30(23)
Level 22: Lightning Field -- Acc-I:30(A), EndRdx-I:30(23), Dmg-I:30(25), Dmg-I:30(25), Dmg-I:50(37)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- Ksm-ToHit+:30(A)
Level 26: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I:30(A)
Level 30: Tough -- EndRdx-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(31), ResDam-I:30(31), ResDam-I:30(31)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(34), Dmg-I:30(34), Dmg-I:30(34), RechRdx-I:50(39), RechRdx-I:50(42)
Level 35: Power Sink -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(36), RechRdx-I:30(36), RechRdx-I:30(36)
Level 38: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I:30(A), EndRdx-I:30(39)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I:30(A)
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I:30(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:30(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:30(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I:30(A), Heal-I:30(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:30(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(7)
------------

EmmySky · November 30, 2019

Thank you!

Yes, many of these powers suck but as they were both new sets to me (never played elec melee or elec armor on live) I was taking most of them to see how they work. I still dont understand how half of them work.

I always figured as a scrapper I will be putting out the damage so slotting for end and acc was more important. That's why I never slotted for damage, but I know better now (thank you).

She only spent a couple mil on the 30 IOs so she should have enough bank for a Kismit, and then work up from there with some unique and procs of she doesnt function well.

Again, thanks for you time!

DocRadio · December 1, 2019

Even the worst sets can shine with Set Enhancements. Yeah I know they can be costly, but if you learn to play the market and manipulate merit rewards you can make an insane amount of INF fairly quickly. An Elec/Elec scrapper properly slotted can be an AOE focused nightmare. Body mastery is always a good choice, but I'd also consider MU. You'd get ball lighting which is even more AOE. Not sure if it can crit, but things would get ugly fast if it could.

Errants · December 2, 2019

On 11/30/2019 at 11:38 AM, EmmySky said:

The experiment: Someone told me that common level 30 IOs would function as SO++ even at level 50, so this is what Sinnocence used. She sucks. I used my post-ED SO only slotting knowledge and I apparently suck also. I don't want to hate her, but I kinda do now. Rerolling is not out of the question, and certainly I am willing to respec her, multiple times if need be, if she can be salvaged. If anyone can get me a nice, not too expensive, build to make best use of her primary and secondary, also I prefer SJ for travel, I might learn to love her again. Thanks for your time!

They weren't too wrong, Level 30 commons are a little better than +1 SO's (with 25's being about even, and 20's being about -2 SO's). However, as has been already addressed, you have some VERY odd/atypical slotting on your Scrapper.

My take on the build...

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Havoc Punch -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(3), Dmg-I:30(11), Dmg-I:30(25), EndRdx-I:30(40)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- ResDam-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(5), ResDam-I:30(7), EndRdx-I:30(29)
Level 2: Lightning Field -- Acc-I:30(A), EndRdx-I:30(3), Dmg-I:30(7), Dmg-I:30(15), Dmg-I:30(15), EndRdx-I:30(48)
Level 4: Jacobs Ladder -- Acc-I:20(A), Dmg-I:30(5), Dmg-I:30(11), Dmg-I:30(25), EndRdx-I:30(37), RechRdx-I:30(46)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(40), RechRdx-I:30(40)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(9), Dmg-I:30(9), Dmg-I:30(23), EndRdx-I:30(37), RechRdx-I:30(43)
Level 10: Static Shield -- EndRdx-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(46), ResDam-I:30(50), ResDam-I:30(50)
Level 12: Conductive Shield -- ResDam-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(13), ResDam-I:30(13), EndRdx-I:30(29)
Level 14: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB:30(A)
Level 16: Grounded -- ResDam-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(39), ResDam-I:30(39)
Level 18: Chain Induction -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(19), Dmg-I:30(19), Dmg-I:30(23), EndRdx-I:30(37), RechRdx-I:30(43)
Level 20: Energize -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(21), RechRdx-I:30(21), Heal-I:30(34), Heal-I:30(34), Heal-I:30(36)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:30(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Acc-I:30(A)
Level 26: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(27), RechRdx-I:30(27)
Level 28: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I:30(A)
Level 30: Tough -- EndRdx-I:30(A), ResDam-I:30(31), ResDam-I:30(31), ResDam-I:30(31)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(33), Dmg-I:30(33), Dmg-I:30(33), EndRdx-I:30(34), RechRdx-I:30(39)
Level 35: Power Sink -- EndRdx-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(36), EndMod-I:30(36)
Level 38: Char -- Acc-I:30(A)
Level 41: Fire Blast -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(42), Dmg-I:30(42), Dmg-I:30(42), EndRdx-I:30(43)
Level 44: Fire Ball -- Acc-I:30(A), Dmg-I:30(45), Dmg-I:30(45), Dmg-I:30(45), EndRdx-I:30(46), RechRdx-I:30(50)
Level 47: Power Surge -- RechRdx-I:30(A), RechRdx-I:30(48), RechRdx-I:30(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I:30(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:30(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth:30(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I:30(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:30(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I:30(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:30(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:30(17), EndMod-I:30(17)
------------

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Notes:

Shield Wall 5% Resist All Global in Combat Jumping - Expensive, but very worth it. Can swap to a Karma -KB IO, or even a common Jump if too expensive.
-KB IO in Super Jump - End consumption shouldn't be an issue when using Travel Powers, as you're not fighting. And this gives you 4 Mag KB Pro when you're NOT touching the ground (e.g. jumping).
Stealth IO in Sprint - It's a good spot for it, and can run it much like a travel power - if you're trying to be sneaky, you're not trying to fight, so End is less of an issue.
Epic - Don't know if you have Patron access, so changed Body for Pyre - Might not work concept wise, but the AoE can be used in the middle of a mob without scatter, and you should have MUCH better Endurance Consumption/Recovery (EndRed in all attacks, Stamina 3x, and Power Sink on a 30-40 second timer for 2/5ths your End Bar off one mob).
Power Surge - Due to Scrapper's lower Resist caps, just slotted for Recharge.
Slotting - unsure what level your toon is as, but the slot levels/power level choices are placed as if grinding from level 1.

Hope this helps, and feel free to PM or poke here if you've more questions.

Erydanus · December 2, 2019

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 2:40 PM, EmmySky said:

I always figured as a scrapper I will be putting out the damage so slotting for end and acc was more important. That's why I never slotted for damage, but I know better now (thank you).

It just doesn't work that way for anybody, really.

Assuming you're not fighting severely higher level foes the best pattern for slotting any attack with SOs/IO equivalents is probably:

Accuracy, Damage, Damage, End Reduction, Damage, and then for the 6th slot pick this way:

if the attack needs more recharge, Recharge. If you routinely fight much higher level mobs you can add a 2nd Accuracy, if it's a crazy fast power then possibly a 2nd End Reduction (because the cost of spamming a cheap power can add up). (You could also add a proc in to any attack but I'm trying to stick with basic IO recs here; proc-fu can get complicated fast.)

For basic defensive toggles like your typical shields, at leveling ranges just shove 3 resistance or defense in them to start; at level 50 if you switch to level 50 IOs they have so much higher value that it would be worth your time to get a Def/End or Resist/End for the third slot as you're triggering enhancement diversification's diminshed returns at that point so you might as well put half an end reducer in. It's not really important to put end reduction in basic defense toggles that cost about 0.26 end/second while leveling; damage auras or higher cost toggles like Leadership somewhat can benefit.

If this seems weird consider this: you have 100 endurance to start with and recover 1.6 end/second base, Stamina raises that to 2.08 end/second. Common protective toggles like Charged Armor only cost 0.26 end/second. Most melee sets will have 2 damage protection toggles and a mez protection toggle. So that's 0.73 end/second being spent so you're still recovering 0.87 end/second. Where does your End go? Attacks. Suppose you do Build Up (5.2), Thunder Strike (10.19), Jacob's Ladder (8.53) and finally a Havoc Punch (6.86) because some dumb minion probably lived somehow; you just spent about 31 endurance out of your 100 total. It'll take you 35 seconds to replace that. If you had 1 end reducer in the 3 attacks (not build up) you'd only have spent 24 end and would take 28 seconds to replace it. Where the problem comes in is when your attacks miss, or they just don't hit hard enough and you have to attack again. It's the long fights because you miss or don't hit hard enough that really are what kill your endurance. As long as your fights don't go on too long normally your end bar can replenish. That seven second difference might not seem like a lot, until you consider how quickly you're going from group to group. Recovering all your end seven seconds faster each time is what makes it so you can do 4 groups before you run yourself out of end instead of 3 groups.

In the example above I said it would take 28-35 seconds to replace that end, but you're not going to stand there doing nothing, you're going on to the next group and blowing them to bits. That's fine, you're going to spend another 30 end or so doing that but while that's going on you're going to be replenishing the end spent in the first fight at the same time. It should be natural to see your bar lower, come back up a little, go lower, and so on, as you go group to group. Whenever you do get too low you're going to have to eat a blue inspiration or use your Power Sink or just take a moment to stand there and recover. (Fighting end drainer mobs like other lightning users may speed the drain up, but your basic powers also have the ability to return a few points of end to you too so that may help a lot; it's not worth slotting Charged Brawl and the like for end mod though, we're talking about getting back maybe 1-2 points of end.)

Now when you add a more expensive toggle like Lightning Field to the mix the situation gets a bit tighter. Damage auras typically cost twice that of a personal shield, and Lightnign Field in fact costs 0.52 end/second. As you recall from 2 paragraphs up you're already spending .73 end/second so adding this power raises your total to 1.3 which is a lot, but hey inherent stamina so you're still recovering a good amount of end (and by the way these numbers are for UNSLOTTED stamina, 3 slotted stamina goes up to 2.48 end/second recovered). I personally feel about 2 end reduction IOs is good for a damage aura and then 3 damage, and a proc. At low levels the best choice for a proc is the Prestige Enhancement from P2W that gives chance of knockdown but you could also pick psi damage or even both if you're cruel.

At this point a typical character using just completely generic IOs and slotting stamina and their attacks well should be doing ok. I know a lot of people feel they must have a Miracle or Numina proc in every build and it's kind of becoming expected even when it's not necessary. It does support a really nonstop playstyle and protects you somewhat against end drain foes, but it's all a matter of situation. There are sets that are actually more expensive to run; I know Dark Armor has a reputation of being an end sucker, and it really is! It has four defensive toggles (which are actually only .21 each) and two offensive toggles, and they all add up to 1.67 end/sec drain which is enough to ZERO your recovery if you haven't put enhancements in Stamina for end mod and reducers in the toggles. I think my post is kind of huge so I will end the general advice on slotting here...

Edit: and Eran added a basic build similar to what I was going to post after so that's covered. As someone who's played an Elec/Elec brute before I can tell you that you should get a knockback protection IO into your build very early because grounded comes in annoyingly late and is unreliable. This eliminates the need for Acrobatics, and also Spring Kick is way too similar to Lightning Rod so I'd drop them from your build and pick other things but that's totally up to you. Combat Jumping is dirt cheap so putting a karma knockback protection would be my rec and I would cram it in by level 10. I'd also consider the electrical (Mu Mastery) epic instead of Body mastery, which is a total waste on a build that has Power Sink already. The snipe and ranged AOE attack will be great on a scrapper.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Erydanus

EmmySky · December 2, 2019

Okay, tons of great advice here!

Although I played from 04 to 10, I never did IOs so I am just learning them now. Its really nice not to have to replace them every little while.

I never managed to understand all the numbers involved (defensive toggles offensive toggles end used end recovered) I just keep slotting end red or end mod until I dont run out of end.

Looking at other peoples builds helps some but I never know why people do a thing and with my deep misunderstanding or confusion on certain mechanics, its not as helpful as it could be. Detailed explanations like y'all have provided here show me WHY and that is so very important and helpful, so a huge thank you for that.

I do have mids but its just confusing since I don't understand what I am seeing or why something works one way and not another. I blame math. Maths and I are not friends lol.

Regarding spring attack and lightning strike, I hate them. Electric melee and electric armor are sets I have never played. I wanted to take a lot of the powers just to see how they work, and I found they work badly! Lol. Spring attack is also new to me so I wanted to check it out. Hate it.

Thank you all for your help and input. I will be respeccing this character one day this week and will hopefully learn to enjoy her. After I get her functional and prove lol 30 IOs are (or are not) adequate I may upgrade her to 50s and add a few procs and uniques.

Errants · December 2, 2019

26 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

Regarding spring attack and lightning strike, I hate them. Electric melee and electric armor are sets I have never played. I wanted to take a lot of the powers just to see how they work, and I found they work badly! Lol. Spring attack is also new to me so I wanted to check it out. Hate it.

Try this... "/bind lshift+click powexecname Lightning Strike" - Makes it so that you hit LShift, then LClick with mouse, and it'll execute LS. There's also a way (googleable, don't recall) in Homecoming to bind/macro it to execute offa your target.

Doomguide2005 · December 2, 2019

😁 Thought I'd come to this thread and find a thread about a character named "Failed Experiment". There is a lot of very good advice above. As for endurance usage I'll usually mouse over the net recovery bar in Mids' and be looking for a net recovery of 2.5 or greater (making sure all toggles are 'on'). I find this generally makes it quite hard to run out of end. Conversely if it's under 2.0 the build will probably suffer from running out of end (and between those numbers it's likely to have to keep an eye on the end bar or find itself running dry in longer fights and/or eating the blue inspires often.

Sir Myshkin · December 3, 2019

8 hours ago, EmmySky said:

I wanted to take a lot of the powers just to see how they work, and I found they work badly!

There's a question to be asked here.

Why do you think this?

EmmySky · December 3, 2019

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

There's a question to be asked here.

Why do you think this?

I really don't like the way lightning strike (and spring attack) function. Doesn't work with my playstyle at all, but I may be able to work out a bind to help with that. Honestly, for the other powers from primary and secondary, my disappointment may stem entirely from faulty slotting and misunderstanding the 'maths'. I will be better able to judge after a respec but that may be a few days.

Edited December 3, 2019 by EmmySky

EmmySky · December 4, 2019

Ok. Had some kind folks help me with patron arc to open up MU powers tonight then did a respec. I didn't follow any of the posted builds exactly but i took all your discussion about how to slot and got her all fixed up (mostly). I ran all three of the costume missions to test her out, then dressed her up for the holidays and parked her in pocket D.

She still uses more end than I'd like but thats with 30 IOs AND i always forget to switch to CJ and leave SJ on while I fight LOL oops.

I will most definitely throw some uniques and procs into Health and Stamina when she can afford those and that should let me forget to turn off SJ all I want.

Thank you all for your help, i no longer hate my toon, she's LOVELY!

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Failed Experiment (elec/elec help needed)

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