Make Poison's Alkaloid and Antidote Powers Ground Targetable

[oedipus_tex]

Poison needs some love, and a way to do it that makes thematic sense would be to change its single target heal (Alkaloid) and anti-mezz power (Antidote) into ground targetables with a small AoE size (maybe 10ft).  The animation for both of these powers involves throwing a vial of liquid, which matches thematically to the concept.

 

The benefit of doing this is then the Poison user could use these powers on themselves.  This would help the set tremendously. Remember, Poison is a set with a PBAoE debuff aura that is intended to get up close to mobs, yet it has no self-sustainability tools at all. This would fix that.

 

The mezz protection is only for 90 seconds which means to maintain it, the Poison character would have to be vigilant about reapplying.

 

People worried about the clunkiness of having to target the ground could navigate around it entirely by using a macro with powerexec_location target "Alkaloid." So other than having to potentially set up a macro, there would no change in execution, but a huge lift in performance of the set. 

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by oedipus_tex

[DougGraves]

The sets that do not let you heal yourself would gain a lot more use if you could heal yourself.

[FDR's Think Tank]

I am definitely for making more sets capable of precision targeting.... but I don't need the actual intent of the set powers to change or be given a secret bonus for targeting myself. I just want to use my trick arrows like a huge variety of Disco Lights/FX for clubbing. Since there is no way to switch between targeting modes right now... they could either add one... or just give Trick Arrow the ability to zone-target all multitarget arrows, rather than mob-centered targeting.

 

And poison too, sure, without giving it self-heals that didn't exist before. If you need another self heal, Medicine Power Pool is good and it can improve all heals as well. Of course, if the self-heal is built in and it's a matter of positioning and tactics, I am not sure how to balance that. Short of heals being more potent near foes or out of combat, I suppose you just shrug it off. It's not gonna hurt the gameplay tremendously if they could run up to their target and get splash healed anyway, since the existing Heals aren't especially broken in the current format. If players are trading out damage and debuffs for pure self healing, it's not overthrowing game balance.

[oedipus_tex]

31 minutes ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

 

And poison too, sure, without giving it self-heals that didn't exist before. If you need another self heal, Medicine Power Pool is good and it can improve all heals as well. Of course, if the self-heal is built in and it's a matter of positioning and tactics, I am not sure how to balance that. Short of heals being more potent near foes or out of combat, I suppose you just shrug it off. It's not gonna hurt the gameplay tremendously if they could run up to their target and get splash healed anyway, since the existing Heals aren't especially broken in the current format. If players are trading out damage and debuffs for pure self healing, it's not overthrowing game balance.

 

 

The existing heal is terrible to be honest. Or at least very poor. The animation time isn't so bad, but the projectile speed is so slow that the power can't be used in a reactive way. It's pretty perfect for conversion to an AoE splash.

 

Any other set that has a single target heal (exception: Storm Summoning) already has a PBAoE heal, so those sets don't need the attention as much. It wouldn't bother me as much if Poison didn't have a PBAoE aura that screams "get in things faces." But it does, and as currently designed is one of the worst sets to be going toe to toe in melee.

[Shadowsleuth]

15 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

The existing heal is terrible to be honest. Or at least very poor. The animation time isn't so bad, but the projectile speed is so slow that the power can't be used in a reactive way. It's pretty perfect for conversion to an AoE splash.

 

@Trickshooter had good suggestions for improving Poison & splashing was one of them.

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/6242-poison-buffs-poison-buffs/

[FDR's Think Tank]

A lot of people don't seem to factor range or projectile speed as a factor in balancing powers, unfortunately. They can crunch the heck out of draw time, out of to hit, damage, defense, and resistance... but positional and timing of hits are so much more nebulous and hard to calculate.

 

The Tankermind Build is kinda specialization of Masterminds though. As they were designed, they were primarily support classes with lots of pets to support, allowing them to solo better.

 

Maybe if there was some way for poison powers from a Secondary Set to stack on mastermind's Primary ranged strikes, you could balance the set better. Unfortunately, that would be exactly the opposite of what I am hearing you ask for, as far as getting up close and personal. To me, it just makes sense that, for instance, a Ninja Mastermind with Poison would probably poison his arrows. However, that's going off concept, rather than function.

 

I have heard a lot of people complain about how weak poison is. What strikes me deeply about this is that Masterminds complain far less about Trick Arrow. Perhaps it's much better balanced for Masterminds than it is for Defenders, although it's more likely only some Ninja Masterminds actually use the set. Defenders all know Trick Arrows is definitely weak. I am starting to think the real reason it doesn't get fixed is because of how limiting the archery animations are for concept. If they added alternate dart/boomerang/ninja star/crossbow/prank gun animations and titled the set "Trick Shot" the entire community would probably demand the set be repaired. Once that happened, we would get a better idea of exactly how badly poison needs love too.

[oedipus_tex]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think we should keep in mind there are two versions of Poison:

• The version that exists on Masterminds, which features Noxious Gas (a power you put on a minion so at least you don't have to melee)
• The version that exists on Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers and features Venemous Gas (same power as above, but its a PBAoE aura)

 

It's the latter version that really struggles IMO. A Poison Defender is encouraged to run into melee range running a PBAoE toggle to get its -Resist effect in and this set doesn't feel sturdy enough for that.

[Mr. Vee]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Thanks for the replies guys. I think we should keep in mind there are two versions of Poison:

• The version that exists on Masterminds, which features Noxious Gas (a power you put on a minion so at least you don't have to melee)
• The version that exists on Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers and features Venemous Gas (same power as above, but its a PBAoE aura)

 

It's the latter version that really struggles IMO. A Poison Defender is encouraged to run into melee range running a PBAoE toggle to get its -Resist effect in and this set doesn't feel sturdy enough for that.

I love Venomous Gas on my defender, so much so that i barely use the main 3 debuffs except on hard targets. I'm willing to concede that it might not be great if you're just using SOs but on a kitted out IO build it's fantastic.

 

As to the OP, sure why not. I don't take them anyway but it'd make the set more attractive for folks who want the heal stuff.

[Razor Cure]

5 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

It's the latter version that really struggles IMO. A Poison Defender is encouraged to run into melee range running a PBAoE toggle to get its -Resist effect in and this set doesn't feel sturdy enough for that.

I HATE the MM version. Every time, and I mean every time, I used it on a Minion, that minion literally would get ganked in under 5 seconds, in spite of the so called 'great debuffs.' The fact it scales depending on the pet cast on, makes it even worse. Casting it on say..an Oni or Assault Bot? That is basically never gonna get near melee.

Maybe if it was usable on a team mate instead.

As well as a Splash poison heal, I'd like to see the same for O2 boost..makes sense it could be a cloud (aoe) of air.

[srmalloy]

9 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

A lot of people don't seem to factor range or projectile speed as a factor in balancing powers, unfortunately. They can crunch the heck out of draw time, out of to hit, damage, defense, and resistance... but positional and timing of hits are so much more nebulous and hard to calculate.

This is something that drove me up the wall back on live with Trick Arrow -- Rain of Arrows, as described, was a more than decent power for a tier-9 ability... except that it was virtually useless in combat. After you designate the target location, by the time the animation and arrow flight ran out, the combat would almost always have moved completely out of the AoE, and you just waste the attack on empty ground.