Proliferation of any epics not available with like ATs

[EarlyGene]

11 minutes ago, Communistpenguin said:

1) Incarnate stuff are OP by design, and generally more damage focused

2) patron power pets are generally not the same as MM/controller/Dom pets. they are much more damage focused than sing/Jack

 

A blaster with singularity would be crazy. Sing could absorb the alpha strike, the blaster could then unleash their crashless nuke, while sing tanks and holds any left over from the blasters alpha while the blaster mopped up. 

I guess you do have a point about pets in ancillary pools. There could at least be mastermind pets as Incarnate pets, and/or more Incarnate pets to chose from. for example: Hydra, Igneous, etc.

Edited February 8, 2020 by EarlyGene

[arcane]

Hard no on the majority of these. Some of you guys have zero problem with even more ridiculous power creep I see...

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Hard no on the majority of these. Some of you guys have zero problem with even more ridiculous power creep I see...

most line up with conventional ancillary standards, which ones do you think should be toned down a bit?

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

most line up with conventional ancillary standards, which ones do you think should be toned down a bit?

Admittedly most are workable under the circumstance that their effects are reduced dramatically and their recharges are increased substantially. Sort of like how dominator mind link or brute melt armor have but a tiny fraction of the utility of the original powers.

 

But without fundamentally neutering levels of stat shifts, there's way too many self heals, set-defining powers, etc littered all over these. Envenom, Weaken, Mental Training, Oil Slick Arrow, Acid Arrow, Radiation Therapy, Siphon Speed, Fade, and World Of Pain are all examples of powers I wouldn't be ok with unless their functionality was similarly at least 75% gutted.

 

You might say this is already the case in all epic pools, but I think there's plenty of counterexamples where powers don't have their numbers adjusted all that much. So that's my one caveat.

 

EDIT: I'd say my caveat is most serious for the poison and trick arrow powers. You're literally offering just about every major reason to take each set in one epic (especially with /TA blasters already having the other cool parts of trick arrow covered). These examples in particular would need to have their effects quartered, their recharges doubled, their endurance costs increased, and maybe their radiuses decreased as well before I could even begin to be ok with it...

 

EDIT 2: Pretty sure all of the self heals you've included here is another one very much out of line with what epics currently tend to include. And when so many builds are easily soft capping defense these days, a self heal is just the last piece of the puzzle to unlocking stupid levels of god mode.

Edited February 8, 2020 by arcaneholocaust

[Alchemystic]

2 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Admittedly most are workable under the circumstance that their effects are reduced dramatically and their recharges are increased substantially. Sort of like how dominator mind link or brute melt armor have but a tiny fraction of the utility of the original powers.

 

But without fundamentally neutering levels of stat shifts, there's way too many self heals, set-defining powers, etc littered all over these. Envenom, Weaken, Mental Training, Oil Slick Arrow, Acid Arrow, Radiation Therapy, Siphon Speed, Fade, and World Of Pain are all examples of powers I wouldn't be ok with unless their functionality was similarly at least 75% gutted.

 

You might say this is already the case in all epic pools, but I think there's plenty of counterexamples where powers don't have their numbers adjusted all that much. So that's my one caveat.

I think as you say these powers would certainly take a dip in effectiveness, and dominator is a good example of how to do this properly. 

 

It's best not to think of these powers as direct ports from the powersets they belong to, but watered down versions that fill a gap in the archetype's repertoire, so they're likely always going to be sub-optimal compared to archetypes that are intended to make the most use out of them. 

 

The reason there's so many set-defining powers involved is mostly because it's quite tough making completely new powers, and these are a 'best fit' for the structure of most ancillary sets. One might argue powers like Personal Force Field, Hibernate and Telekinesis are all set-defining, but have seen use in ancillary powersets too.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Tyrannical said:

I think as you say these powers would certainly take a dip in effectiveness, and dominator is a good example of how to do this properly. 

 

It's best not to think of these powers as direct ports from the powersets they belong to, but watered down versions that fill a gap in the archetype's repertoire, so they're likely always going to be sub-optimal compared to archetypes that are intended to make the most use out of them. 

 

The reason there's so many set-defining powers involved is mostly because it's quite tough making completely new powers, and these are a 'best fit' for the structure of most ancillary sets. One might argue powers like Personal Force Field, Hibernate and Telekinesis are all set-defining, but have seen use in ancillary powersets too.

Think we're in agreement really.

 

I'm ok with just about anything if done properly. However, there are different levels of watering down across various epic powers, and I would simply say we need the absolute highest level of watering down on a lot of these choices.

 

Some powers are hardly watered down at all (Personal Force Field, Hibernate, and Telekinesis are good examples... Power Boost and Power Sink are a couple of other examples of powers that don't take huge hits in their numbers). This specifically would not be acceptable, whereas the massive levels of watering down in other examples (the Dominator Link Minds example, for instance) would be ok.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Not as pretty as others but I had some rough ideas for some APPs for Arachnos soldiers so you don't have powers conceptually tied to being a patron's lapdog.

 

Telepathic Mastery: (You've honed the mental training Arachnos taught you to levels they could have foreseen)

-Psionic Dart (kind of iffy these days because of Force of Will, also because Mental blast is better and available to Widows and Fortunata, also this is weaker than other PPP attacks, so it might need a damage buff)

-Mass Hypnosis alternatively Neuralmotor Override (basically a PBAoE version of Subdual)

-Horrify (Mind Control's Terrify, changed to only a mag 2 chance for fear but a decent tohit and recharge debuff, possibly no damage. Alternatively ditch the fear component completely for the debuffs and better damage.)

-Empathic Soothing (basically Time Manipulations Temporal Mending, small upfront heal with a DoT)

-Confusion (very iffy with this one, but I didn't want to give the psionic nexus pet NPCs have because that seemed too strong.)

 

Technology Mastery (Without Arachnos breathing down your neck, you were free to pick up some new toys)

-Sidearm (basically the revolver power with a customizable single pistol model with a longer range and 'high damage')

-Caltrops (should work for a tier 2 as it does a lot of what the PPP tier 2s do)

-Satchel Charge (Locational AoE pet summon, sort of like trip mine but you detonate it by attacking it, alternatively have a temp power popup tray for detonation)

-Insulating Sheathe (+res v. Cold, Fire, Eng, Neg, -Rec, and -End. Passive. I do understand this strays pretty far from other tier 4s)

-Call Drone (Thinking basically the minion-tier Robotic Drone lorepet ally. Gun drone might be either too weak and/or step on devices too much)

 

Survival Mastery (You've pushed yourself harder than any other operative before) (This one is gonna get kind of weird I think)

-Rushing Strike (Single Target 'teleport to' attack that deals moderate damage, probably use burst of speed animation to look like a lunging punch. Crane kick to look like a lunging side kick)

-No idea, maybe Caltrops

-Dragon's Tail

-Physical Perfection

-also no idea.

 

So, as you can see the ideas are pretty sloppy and could be refined, a lot, but those are the rough ideas I have: three APPs for SoAs based on training, tech, and psionics. Anyone got some better ideas? I'd be all for it.

[Alchemystic]

19 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

Not as pretty as others but I had some rough ideas for some APPs for Arachnos soldiers so you don't have powers conceptually tied to being a patron's lapdog.

 

---

 

So, as you can see the ideas are pretty sloppy and could be refined, a lot, but those are the rough ideas I have: three APPs for SoAs based on training, tech, and psionics. Anyone got some better ideas? I'd be all for it.

I really like this idea! Giving VEATS more options to choose from could really diversify them. After all, the whole point of the VEAT story is that you can rebel against your former masters and carve your own path... 

 

I think like you've done yourself they should still line up nicely with the Arachnos theme, but they deviate away from the standard issue abilities they have access to. Since the VEATS can fill different roles, I decided to make the ancillary powersets different to one another to reflect that.

 

So with that in mind, maybe this could work;

 

Soldier/Widow

Trap Mastery

Your expertise with gadgetry has extended into the use of several traps designed to debilitate your foes.

 - Caltrops

 - Web Envelope

 - Acid Mortar

 - Poison Trap

 - Trip Mine

 

Espionage Mastery

Your stealth training has trained you in the use of several distracting or debilitating tools.

 - Caltrops

 - Throwing Dagger

 - Choking Powder

 - Blinding Powder

 - Smoke Flash

 

Martial Mastery

Your close combat abilities have evolved into advanced martial arts.

 - Reaction Time

 - Throwing Dagger

 - Storm Kick

 - Burst of Speed

 - Eagles Claw

 

Poison Mastery

Arachnos science yields all manner of virulent poisons and deadly toxins.

 - Neurotoxic Breath

 - Envenom

 - Paralytic Poison

 - Poison Trap

 - Weaken

 

 

Soldier Only

Rifle Mastery

You are able to augment your rifle with additional fire modes and payloads.

 - Sleep Grenade

 - Slug

 - Buckshot

 - Ignite

 - LMR Missile

 

Survival Mastery

Your knack for self-sufficiency has enhanced your combat abilities.

 - Caltrops

 - Throwing Dagger

 - Rib Cracker

 - Throw Sand

 - Shin Breaker

 

Gadget Mastery

You have augmented your arsenal with several additional combat-purpose gadgets

 - Pistol

 - Smoke Grenade

 - Targeting Drone

 - Heavy Pistol

 - Trip Mine

 

Triage Mastery

Arachnos medicine is esoteric, often derived from the same twisted science behind its chemical weapons.

 - Sleep Grenade

 - Antidote

 - Triage Beacon

 - Alkaloid

 - Elixir of Life

 

 

Widow Only

Claw Mastery

You have honed your claws and learned how to perform special attacks and manuevers.

 - Caltrops

 - Focus

 - Paralyzing Dart

 - Venom Barb

 - Shockwave

 

Psionic Mastery

Your psychic attacks have grown more powerful with advanced training.

 - Will Domination

 - Drain Psyche

 - Mind Probe

 - Psionic Lance

 - Psychic Shockwave 

 

Fate Mastery

Your psionic powers have manifested the ability to tamper with fate itself.

 - Time's Juncture

 - Temporal Selection

 - Time Stop

 - Temporal Mending

 - Farsight

 

Mind Mastery

Your power of will has granted you more control over the minds of others.

 - Mesmerize

 - Levitate

 - Mass Hypnosis

 - Telekinesis

 - Terrify

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Alchemystic]

managed to squeeze in one more since I completely forgot to include any Sonic or Time themed ancillary powersets and i didn't want to upset the Doctor Who fandom.

 

Blaster / Mastermind

Sonic Mastery

 - Disruption Field

 - Sonic Cage

 - Sound Barrier (Personal version of Sonic Barrier)

 - Sonic Repulsion

 - Liquify

 

Controller / Dominator

Temporal Mastery

/ - Aging Touch/Slowed Response

 - Time Shift

 - Temporal Healing

 - End of Time

 - Elude

 

Defender / Corruptor

Time Mastery

 - Aging Touch

 - Time Shift

 - Power Boost

 - End of Time

 - Elude

 

Scrapper / Stalker / Tanker / Brute

Sound Mastery

 - Siren's Song

 - Scream

 - Sonic Cage

 - Shout

 - Shockwave

 

Sentinel

Chrono Mastery

 - Time Wall

 - Time Stop

 - Time Shift

 - End of Time

 - Farsight

[plainguy]

This deserves a push up.. Great ideas.

I would like a shield in there some where as well.

 

 

[Razor Cure]

Way too many of these just give iconic powers from certain sets to basically everyone. WOuld they be handy/useful/awesome? Sure. Are they needed? No way.

Even with the adjusted AT mods for all the stuff, it is just TOO much. Let there be at least some unique powers for teh different ATs and sets.

[Alchemystic]

2 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Way too many of these just give iconic powers from certain sets to basically everyone. WOuld they be handy/useful/awesome? Sure. Are they needed? No way.

Even with the adjusted AT mods for all the stuff, it is just TOO much. Let there be at least some unique powers for teh different ATs and sets.

I think this discussion already came up, and the result was "what defines an iconic power?" and nobody really figured it out, so.

[Sakura Tenshi]

On 2/12/2020 at 7:00 AM, Tyrannical said:

Soldier/Widow

 

Trap Mastery

Espionage Mastery

 

Martial Mastery

Poison Mastery

 

Soldier Only

Rifle Mastery

Survival Mastery

Gadget Mastery

Triage Mastery

 

Widow Only

Claw Mastery

Psionic Mastery

Fate Mastery
Mind Mastery
 

highly belated, but I do like what you've done here. About my only gripe is that I kind of would have liked to have let Arachnos Soldiers themselves dip into the psionic goodness widows could pick up while Widows could delve into the gadgetry Soldiers had, and while Widows can still pick up gadgets in epionage and trap mastery, Soldiers don't get a psionic option. It's not really a big deal, especially with force of will powerset, though, it's really my own thoughts.

 

Plus, I do like that while you gave them common pool selections, each one still got their own power pools. Next up, coming up with EPPs for Kheldian ATs. 😄

[Sakura Tenshi]

So, in the short time since my last post I threw together a sample idea for a kheldian APP. While Warshade and Peacebringer are ultimately only superficially similar in playstyle, I still went with the idea that they'd draw from a shared pool, in this case representing the idea of a PB drawing on more of the light and warshades remembering how to ignite it, and said APP's powers are patterned heavily off of how sentinel APPs work with AoE 'Soft' Control, melee attack, ST hold, PBAoE, and a support skill.

 

Ascendancy: By embracing the light and stoking your inner energies, you have tapped into the quintessence of Kheldian power.

-Blinding Light (Targetted AoE, Foe sleep, Minor Damage:Energy, -ToHit, -Def Recharge: Slow): You create a blinding flash of light that renders a group of enemies helpless, while attacking them will free them the controlling effect, their blurred vision will reduce their accuracy and defenses for sometime after.

-Energy Transfer (Melee, Extreme DMG: Smash/Energy, Foe Disorient, Self Extreme DMG[Special], Recharge: Slow): You can draw on some of your own vitality to unleash a devastating blow against a single opponent, even those who survive the attack will be disoriented for a time after.

-Photonic Flashbang (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe Stun, -Def, Recharge: slow): You hurl a small mote of light that flies towards an enemy's face and erupts with a blinding and defeaning burst, leaving them disoriented and helpless.)

-Sun Spot (Location (PBAoE), Moderate DoT(Energy), Self +Res(Immobilize), Foe -Def, Recharge: Slow): You channel your essence into the very earth creating a roaring pyre of kheldian energy around you, freeing you from immobilization effects as well as damaging enemies close to you.

-Radiant Aura (PBAoE, Team Heal, Recharge: moderate): you weave the luminous essence from within into a mending aura for yourself and your allies around you, recovering a small amount of health.

 

Edit: throwing together the nictus/warshade themed counterpart or something.

 

Crespuscule: By delving into the forbidden techniques of the Nictus, you have taken some of their secrets and gained both insight into their ways and a few of their less abominable powers.

-Gravity Fault (Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT(Negative/smashing), Foe: Immobilize, -Recharge, -Speed, Recharge: Slow): You open a minor gravity well in on the ground, trapping foes caught within or who cross into it. Even though they are free to attack, they will be slowed by the oppressive field.

-Event Horizon (Melee, Superior Damage(Negative/smashing) Foe Teleport, Disorient, Knockdown, Recharge: Slow): You open a void in space before you and hurl a single foe through the event horizon of a blackhole. They will suffer from the dark matter energies and crushing pressure, and even upon their return they will be knocked down and disoriented for a short time

-Dark Entanglement (Ranged, Moderate DMG(Negative), Foe Hold, -Speed, -Recharge, Recharge: slow): You create shackles of dark energy to ensnare a foe, sapping away their strength and holding them fast in place.

-Void Call (PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Negative/psionic), Foe Disorient, -speed, -Recharge, Recharge: Slow): By channeling the agony of your wounds over the countless battles endured, you can blast enemies around you with a burst of negatively aligned psychic energy, such a painful expulsion has a good chance to disorient all foes struck for a time.

-Essence Tap (Ranged, Foe -End, -Regen, -speed, -recharge, Team Heal, recharge: slow): You can cause the vital energies and essence of your opponents to uncontrollably drain out from their bodies, revitalizing allies around them while leaving them weakened for a time.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Sakura Tenshi