HO values are inconstant between tasks

[SubZippo]

I'm going off the merit rewards off of Paragon Wiki.  Forgive me if they've been tweeked since then, I haven't been paying enough attention

 

Its bugged me since live that the proportional merit value for a Hami Origin Enhancement is wildly inconsistent.  Completing a Hami Raid rewards 80 merits or one HO.  LRSF awards 25 merits or one HO.  STF/MsLTF awards 37 merits or one HO.  So an HO = 80 merits = 37 merits = 25 merits. 

 

Is there any room for debate on balancing these rewards?  Personally if it were up to me, I'd make Hamidon drop 80 merits or TWO HOs, then make both trials 40 merits or one HO.

[Troo]

I believe this is not accidental and as intended. I think there may be some additional nuance as well such as not being repeatable per period of time.

[Outrider_01]

What is the value of a HO vs a merit?

 

Can't the TFs you mentioned be speed run?  Not even sure myself, never participated but see a lot of "speed run" to form so the value of a merit would be less if if you can run it quickly if you think about it.  TF are a total of 8 people.

 

HO raid would be harder so the value goes up for the effort of a merit.  It requires more heroes than a TF to defeat Hamidon so you get more.

 

HO went from the most valuable and prized item in the game as what ever dropped (reward windows didn't exist back then unless a special case for Hamidon) when merits didn't exist which results in being  the runner up prize, merits allow more options does it not?

 

As for how many HO I got no option or thoughts on the matter.

[Piyerus]

Merit reward values are based off of how long the content takes to complete, plus a few other factors. The value of other potential rewards is not taken into account. In addition the rewards for a Hami raid are somewhat boosted beyond what it would normally be worth, likely to encourage people to actually do the raid. Afaik there is a timer on the merit rewards so if you choose it more than once a day, you'll get reduced rewards.

[SubZippo]

I understand everything that has been said but it does not address my point.  The game simultaneously suggests that a HO is the equal worth 80, 37, and 25 merits.  I already know how those merit rewards were calculated.  However, if there is an alternate reward to the HO, the merit values don't make sense.  Furthermore, those average times have pretty much been shredded by top, and even mid-skill level players.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Personally I feel HOs should of been entirely removed when they finally fixxed the exploited bug many had used them for for several years on live. as soon as that fix occurred we saw maybe the sweetest QQ in the history of MMOdom from those who had abused an exploit that the devs long warned would be fixed once they could figure out how to.

 

The fact is once that fix came about, HO became a relic of a pre IO set era and one only worth getting if you saw IOs and sets as too much trouble to learn about and wanted to keep it as simple as farming hami. Same with the utterly defunct ones from the crystal titan. 

 

While I understand you feel like because you can pick either an HO or merits, that there thus should be some kind of equality, like more HOs for the hami raid since its worth more merits. But imo that is just wanting more not really a need for the game.

 

Id instead suggest we push to see HOs removed and a few new IO sets of varying quality, maybe sets to suit niche powers that currently require franken slotting to really use well like attacks that also heal or buff def. Sets only gained by the content or via merit vendor, and thus have their merit prices based on the merit rewards that one can choose instead of a random part of these hypotheical new sets.

 

For example a purple rare set from hami proper, with its parts costing 100 merits or risk RNG for a part you might already have. Do something similar with the sets made for the other easier to farm runs that currently give HOs as an option.

 

I also think these new niche sets would carry on some of the spirit of the old HO era, by improving aspects of powers normally not possible. Imagine sets that allow for buffing dmg and the debuff aspect of powers, dmg and buff or utility aspects of powers. Perhaps sets for defense that add useful things like absorb or healing proc specials in them. Dmg res sets that also  do fun things like move speed to help stone tankers as another niche example so TP didnt feel like such a must for them.

 

To summarize I do not agree we need to balance out merits to HOs on the reward table. we need to remove and replace HOs entirely with new kinds of sets. Id allow current HOs to be turned into something like brainstorms, where the RNG would grant a random part to these new sets.

 

I feel this would enrich our game space, and bring something from the archaic early days of CoH into the modern post IO era.

[Troo]

On 1/8/2020 at 8:32 PM, SubZippo said:

I understand everything that has been said but it does not address my point.  The game simultaneously suggests that a HO is the equal worth 80, 37, and 25 merits.  I already know how those merit rewards were calculated.  However, if there is an alternate reward to the HO, the merit values don't make sense.  Furthermore, those average times have pretty much been shredded by top, and even mid-skill level players.

can't buy Hamidon Origin enhancements with merits.

 

On 1/8/2020 at 9:00 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

HO became a relic of a pre IO set era and one only worth getting if you saw IOs and sets as too much trouble to learn about

whoa whoa.. Hamidon Origin enhancements play pretty nice with Invention Origin enhancements for some 'advanced' or 'exotic' builds. Feel free to send your unwanted HOs this way.

[Roderick]

34 minutes ago, Troo said:

can't buy Hamidon Origin enhancements with merits.

OP isn't talking about buying HOs directly with merits, but rather the merit cost of choosing the HO instead of taking merits.

[SubZippo]

On 1/9/2020 at 12:00 AM, Bentley Berkeley said:

Personally I feel HOs should of been entirely removed

That's crazy!  They still have plenty of use.  I love slotting damage/ranges in my cone attacks, or filling in a def debuff power that's already got three Def debuff set IOs with two acc/dam hamis, or using ether /mez hami with a power that causes more than one kind of mez.  Travel HOs sell for 80m on the market.  HOs certainly aren't as useful as they were before IOs were introduced but they're still critical to most builds.

Edited January 10, 2020 by SubZippo

[Troo]

On 1/8/2020 at 8:32 PM, SubZippo said:

I understand everything that has been said but it does not address my point.  The game simultaneously suggests that a HO is the equal worth 80, 37, and 25 merits.  I already know how those merit rewards were calculated.  However, if there is an alternate reward to the HO, the merit values don't make sense.  Furthermore, those average times have pretty much been shredded by top, and even mid-skill level players.

So they TFs should be worth less merits due to times being 'shredded'.. Is that what your suggesting?

 

13 hours ago, Roderick said:

OP isn't talking about buying HOs directly with merits, but rather the merit cost of choosing the HO instead of taking merits.

Choices. 

On occasion, I pay more for an enhancement than I need to because I want it sooner.

The OP has said the game suggests "a HO is the equal worth 80, 37, and 25 merits". There is no simple linear correlation.

Take the merits if the HO is unwanted.

Some HOs may be worth more to a player than others. Is the one I want worth 80 merit? Hell yeah! Is the one I don't want worth 80 merits.. not to me but maybe to someone else. Is a chance at a HO worth 25 merits. In my opinion there's no question, other folks may have a different view.

Choices.

[Galaxy Brain]

I dont wanna be that guy, but reading the thread title real fast made me pause for a sec