Quick fix for Kheldian ATs

[Wavicle]

So, I've been playing both my WS (triform) and my PB (human only) a lot more recently and I decided I was wrong about this whole thing.

 

Here's how I see it now:

Toggle suppression: necessary.

Damage cap increase: nice to have, but not essential.

Taunt aura/non dwarf punchvoke: not necessary.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

So, I've been playing both my WS (triform) and my PB (human only) a lot more recently and I decided I was wrong about this whole thing.

 

Here's how I see it now:

Toggle suppression: necessary.

Damage cap increase: nice to have, but not essential.

Taunt aura/non dwarf punchvoke: not necessary.

THat works. (Though if they do toggle suppression, I'd expect it to be like current (non shapeshifting AT) suppression - defensive toggles yes, offensive get turned off.)

[Wavicle]

On 2/6/2020 at 4:22 AM, Greycat said:

THat works. (Though if they do toggle suppression, I'd expect it to be like current (non shapeshifting AT) suppression - defensive toggles yes, offensive get turned off.)

Well, there's only one, right, Inky Aspect.

EDIT: oops, my bad, 2.  Inky and Orbiting Death.  I dunno.  I kinda think Warshades are going to want at least Orbiting Death to suppress.  Maybe Inky is ok detoggling.

Edited February 9, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Bossk_Hogg]

Human form absolutely needs mez protection, particularly peacebringers. Any AT with 3 shields, melee attacks, and no mez protection is shit design.

 

VEATs get it, friggin DOMS get it permadom... a tanky dps with no meaningful team utility deserves some dignity in human form without carrying around a half dozen controllers. 

[Wavicle]

21 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Human form absolutely needs mez protection, particularly peacebringers. Any AT with 3 shields, melee attacks, and no mez protection is shit design.

 

VEATs get it, friggin DOMS get it permadom... a tanky dps with no meaningful team utility deserves some dignity in human form without carrying around a half dozen controllers. 

You get light form.

[Bossk_Hogg]

38 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

You get light form.

Uh huh. Which has a huge crash and needs a crap ton of recharge to be made perma. So doesnt exactly count. Plus why even have the single shields then? If light form is enough, I guess scrappers/stalkers don't need mez protection either, since they can just pop a T9.

 

The AT shouldnt be ass until the 40's with a ton of IO's, but that's what it is. Roughly sentinel damage (which was already deemed too low), little team utility outside of mediocre tanking, and scattering mobs everywhere to ensure killing goes slower!

Edited February 6, 2020 by Bossk_Hogg

[Wavicle]

Just now, Bossk_Hogg said:

Which has a huge crash

No it doesn't.

[Wavicle]

Personally, I agree that a small amount of protection from Hold, Stun, and Sleep in the level 1 passive is a pretty reasonable ask (compare to Arachnos Soldiers, which aren't even supposed to be a tank class).

Edited February 7, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Bossk_Hogg]

17 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

No it doesn't.

Does yours somehow magically NOT drain 50% of your health and endurance when it wears off? Please hack mine too! 

 

Lightform is not acceptable as mez protection, anymore than unstoppable would be as invuln's only mez protection. 

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Does yours somehow magically NOT drain 50% of your health and endurance when it wears off? Please hack mine too! 

 

Lightform is not acceptable as mez protection, anymore than unstoppable would be as invuln's only mez protection. 

It used to drain almost all of your health and endurance. By comparison the current crash is very minor and easily dealt with with your powers. Calling it a huge crash is very silly.

Edited February 7, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Lightform is not acceptable as mez protection, anymore than unstoppable would be as invuln's only mez protection. 

Like I said, I think adding 3 points of protection from Hold, Sleep, and Stun to the lvl 1 passive is a good idea.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, sacredlunatic said:

Like I said, I think adding 3 points of protection from Hold, Sleep, and Stun to the lvl 1 passive is a good idea.

Disagree, not a good place to add it. Not even tanks get passive stun protection.

Edited February 7, 2020 by SwitchFade

[siolfir]

13 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Disagree, not a good place to add it. Not even tanks get passive stun protection.

Arachnos Soldiers do, though.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by siolfir
screenshots - all of those powers available at level 1

[Wavicle]

Hell regeneration gets passive stun protection.

[Wavicle]

Just three points to hold stun and sleep is totally reasonable for a passive on a tank class.

[siolfir]

Just now, sacredlunatic said:

Hell regeneration gets passive stun protection.

Yeah, but not at level 1.

[Wavicle]

Just now, siolfir said:

Yeah, but not at level 1.

Arachnos soldiers get it at 1 and they’re a Support class!

[siolfir]

1 minute ago, sacredlunatic said:

Arachnos soldiers get it at 1 and they’re a Support class!

I know. I was actually making screenshots to edit into my post.

[Wavicle]

The hand wringing about the idea that buffing kheldians would make them op is hilarious.

Edited February 7, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[SwitchFade]

42 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

The hand wringing about the idea that buffing kheldians would make them op is hilarious.

Please try not to be so condescending and dismissive of other people's concerns. Their views are just as valid as yours.

[Wavicle]

On 2/6/2020 at 4:22 AM, Greycat said:

THat works. (Though if they do toggle suppression, I'd expect it to be like current (non shapeshifting AT) suppression - defensive toggles yes, offensive get turned off.)

Honestly, no, they should all stay on.  Shapeshifting should not even remotely comparable to a self mez.  Offensive toggles get turned off because you're mezzed.  Shapeshifting for Kheldians (and ONLY for Kheldians, no Halloween costume toggle suppression) should probably include both Inky Aspect and Orbiting Death.

[Greycat]

On 2/7/2020 at 4:21 PM, siolfir said:

Arachnos Soldiers do, though.

 

 

Nitpick on that screenshot. Yes, wolf spider armor gives it at level 1. The other two aren't available until the level 24 forced respec, where you unlock Crab or Bane. They may show up as "level 1" after that, but it's not a "real" level 1. (Which, I know. Po-ta-to, po-tah-to.)

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

Honestly, no, they should all stay on.  Shapeshifting should not even remotely comparable to a self mez.  Offensive toggles get turned off because you're mezzed.  Shapeshifting for Kheldians (and ONLY for Kheldians, no Halloween costume toggle suppression) should probably include both Inky Aspect and Orbiting Death.

Which is why I said I'd *expect* them to, using the way toggles currently suppress versus trying to set up an exception, versus what I'd like. 🙂

[Doomrider]

On 2/7/2020 at 2:23 PM, sacredlunatic said:

Just three points to hold stun and sleep is totally reasonable for a passive on a tank class.

Honestly even 4 points similiar to what SOA's get (as shown from siolfir's screenshots posted earlier) wouldn't be game breaking. This could easily be added to Incandescence/Absorption passive at level 1.
I get by without mez protection as is but I play Tri-form. I could see Human only players really appreciating the added protection. As for Tri-formers, getting locked in Dwarf in the sub-50 game when you're running low on insps/have no breakfrees can be annoying. It would be nice if in addition Dwarf Form's regular Mez Protection, they would give it Mez resistance as well so any mez placed upon you would have their durations reduced while in Dwarf, letting you shake them off quicker. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Doomrider

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Doomrider said:

Honestly even 4 points similiar to what SOA's get (as shown from siolfir's screenshots posted earlier) wouldn't be game breaking. This could easily be added to Incandescence/Absorption passive at level 1.
I get by without mez protection as is but I play Tri-form. I could see Human only players really appreciating the added protection. As for Tri-formers, getting locked in Dwarf in the sub-50 game when you're running low on insps/have no breakfrees can be annoying. It would be nice if in addition Dwarf Form's regular Mez Protection, they would give it Mez resistance as well so any mez placed upon you would have their durations reduced while in Dwarf, letting you shake them off quicker. 

Yeah, like 2 points at lvl 1 but scales up to 4 at 50.

I think mez resistance is probably against the rules somehow, but asking for a 3-5% (unslottable) Defense bonus on the Dwarf form seems reasonable to me.  Helping some mezzes to miss would probably be good enough.

Edited February 10, 2020 by sacredlunatic