A Call for a little transparency, just a touch.

[nzer]

3 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Because I don't have a hang up, I am just stating my thoughts and opinions on the situations?

Why does there have to be a hang-up?

There doesn't have to be, it just seems like you have one based on the arguments you're making. An agreement with NCSoft would absolutely make the server more stable by eliminating the possibility of a cease and desist. You're making the perfect the enemy of the good in suggesting that it wouldn't, and I'm just curious why.

 

As for other groups running servers, they already have no protection of any kind other than the guarantee that they can start over. An agreement between HC and NCSoft doesn't hurt them, and the lack of one doesn't protect them. The code is already out there, but while it's owned by NCSoft there's basically zero chance of it ever going open source even without an agreement in place. If someone hosts it somewhere, NCSoft can and will get it taken down.

 

In fact, the talks with NCSoft are probably the best chance we have of the game going open source, as the best case scenario is that they sell the IP to the HC team and the HC team then open sources the i25 code. I don't think that'll happen, but it's theoretically possible.

[jubakumbi]

15 minutes ago, nzer said:

There doesn't have to be, it just seems like you have one based on the arguments you're making. An agreement with NCSoft would absolutely make the server more stable by eliminating the possibility of a cease and desist. You're making the perfect the enemy of the good in suggesting that it wouldn't, and I'm just curious why.

 

As for other groups running servers, they already have no protection of any kind other than the guarantee that they can start over. An agreement between HC and NCSoft doesn't hurt them, and the lack of one doesn't protect them. The code is already out there, but while it's owned by NCSoft there's basically zero chance of it ever going open source even without an agreement in place. If someone hosts it somewhere, NCSoft can and will get it taken down.

 

In fact, the talks with NCSoft are probably the best chance we have of the game going open source, as the best case scenario is that they sell the IP to the HC team and the HC team then open sources the i25 code. I don't think that'll happen, but it's theoretically possible.

My faith in the stability and longevity of a server group does not hinge on the activity being any more or less legit than what we have now.

Perhaps I have simply had too much experience with IT, time, energy, user drama, and the place where all those things come together to think having a piece of paper making it 'OK' has any real impact on how long it will last, who will destroy everything in a fit of rage or fear, what hosting company will go out of business leaving the servers deleted, etc., etc.

 

I have no faith in these talks everyone refers to anyway.

I have been in business too long, I have seen this same line used for decades to placate groups of people, large and small.

 

The results are what matter, IMO, and right now, we have as good a situation as we can hope for IMO - as long as no one tries to make a buck, NCSoft seems to be willing to live and let live.

There are simply too many people in the COH community that cannot live with that level of uncertainty, so these types of discussins will continue to go in circles until the the people involved keel over or can no longer for whatever reason post thier thoughts, IMO.

[RCU7115]

 Lately I see more post about wanting this or that  fixed or changed. The Dev Team could put the game in Maintenance Mode right now and I would still play the game everyday. 

[nzer]

4 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Perhaps I have simply had too much experience with IT, time, energy, user drama, and the place where all those things come together to think having a piece of paper making it 'OK' has any real impact on how long it will last

All the private servers that have received cease and desists over the years would have lasted longer if they had such a piece of paper, to say nothing of the fact that legitimacy is necessary if the HC team ever wants to move at more than the snails pace afforded by a small team of volunteers, as I assume they do. Maintenance mode is the least anyone could want, and personally, I don't think blanket cynicism is particularly conducive to growth.

[Troo]

/e doublefacepalm

[jubakumbi]

Just now, nzer said:

All the private servers that have received cease and desists over the years would have lasted longer if they had such a piece of paper, to say nothing of the fact that legitimacy is necessary if the HC team ever wants to move at more than the snails pace afforded by a small team of volunteers, as I assume they do. Maintenance mode is the least anyone could want, and personally, I don't think blanket cynicism is particularly conducive to growth.

I think you mistake my wish to live in reality as cynicism.

In reality, it's all really hilarious to me, that the people involved are even talking about being legit when this whole thing started form a massive code and consumer data breach.

From my POV, NCSoft has to admit that even happened for any of this to move forward and that is serious egg-on-face for a corporate entity.

 

From my POV, HC wants to become Paragon-reborn, and that's great and all, but just means there is another corporate entity telling us how to play.

Really, that's how I see it.

Thing is, it seems obvious that's what the majority of the players think they want, and I am all about everyone having fun the way they want.

All I see is another Big Borther telling everyone they can't do homages, cannot get insta-50s, etc. and everyone forced to play on one set of servers, because I simply do not trust anyone involved based on available data to not come to an exclusive deal with NCSoft, if any deals are made.

 

And really, a few of us quibbling on the forums has no impact on the growth of HC or the game, we have been quibbling over these things, be the discourse cynical or not, whoch is part of the hwole point of the thread - the players have no 'control' over what happens and many of them hate that feeling...

[NNDeepdish]

This thread is still going huh? Wish I could say I was shocked.

 

Guys if you really believe that NCSoft is ever going to put it in writing that they promise to never ever ever ever ever pursue any sort of litigation against this server, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

You know what, if it happened, I'll be the first one to post about how wrong and foolish I was. But hoping, waiting and most importantly expecting it to happen is an exercise in futility and frustration

[Abraxus]

23 minutes ago, NNDeepdish said:

This thread is still going huh? Wish I could say I was shocked.

 

Guys if you really believe that NCSoft is ever going to put it in writing that they promise to never ever ever ever ever pursue any sort of litigation against this server, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

You know what, if it happened, I'll be the first one to post about how wrong and foolish I was. But hoping, waiting and most importantly expecting it to happen is an exercise in futility and frustration

I hope I get the opportunity to call you on that someday soon. 😉

[nzer]

14 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I think you mistake my wish to live in reality as cynicism.

I mean, assuming the worst possible outcome like you're doing is literally cynicism. I don't see HC doing anything that would prompt comparisons between them and NCSoft, they know the player base would jump ship at the drop of a hat. I don't see them legitimately pursuing exclusivity either. NCSoft already doesn't because it's not worth it, and they have actual money and manpower to throw around. HC doesn't have the resources to enforce exclusivity even if they wanted to, and I doubt they would want to, because again, large portions of the playerbase would jump ship if they did.

 

I also don't find the suggestion that NCSoft would license the HC team to run a server so long as certain legal guidelines are adhered to ridiculous, and I'm not sure why other people do. The IP isn't worth investing in for them and probably never will be, so their goal is presumably just to protect their IP as cheaply as possible. I think the likely outcome here is that NCSoft licenses the property to HC under the condition that they police liability concerns like "homage" characters and cede copyright of all ongoing development results to NCSoft in exchange for some kind of payment from HC to reimburse them of any legal costs.

 

Such an outcome costs NCSoft nothing, while giving them cover from liability concerns, demonstrating that they're maintaining ownership of the IP, and earning them a bit of good publicity. It's a win-win, and I'd guess the only reason it's taking so long is that NCSoft is devoting as few resources to it as they possibly can, because the IP is worth almost nothing.

 

I also want to point out that you're the only one here that thinks players are shaking in fear of the uncertainty, and hate not being in control. To me it just looks like people are interested in securing the future of a game they love and enjoy.

[jubakumbi]

2 minutes ago, nzer said:

I mean, assuming the worst possible outcome like you're doing is literally cynicism. I don't see HC doing anything that would prompt comparisons between them and NCSoft, they know the player base would jump ship at the drop of a hat. I don't see them legitimately pursuing exclusivity either. NCSoft already doesn't because it's not worth it, and they have actual money and manpower to throw around. HC doesn't have the resources to enforce exclusivity even if they wanted to, and I doubt they would want to, because again, large portions of the playerbase would jump ship if they did.

 

I also don't find the suggestion that NCSoft would license the HC team to run a server so long as certain legal guidelines are adhered to ridiculous, and I'm not sure why other people do. The IP isn't worth investing in for them and probably never will be, so their goal is presumably just to protect their IP as cheaply as possible. I think the likely outcome here is that NCSoft licenses the property to HC under the condition that they police liability concerns like "homage" characters and cede copyright of all ongoing development results to NCSoft in exchange for some kind of payment from HC to reimburse them of any legal costs.

 

Such an outcome costs NCSoft nothing, while giving them cover from liability concerns, demonstrating that they're maintaining ownership of the IP, and earning them a bit of good publicity. It's a win-win, and I'd guess the only reason it's taking so long is that NCSoft is devoting as few resources to it as they possibly can, because the IP is worth almost nothing.

 

I also want to point out that you're the only one here that thinks players are shaking in fear of the uncertainty, and hate not being in control. To me it just looks like people are interested in securing the future of a game they love and enjoy.

Well, obviously, we simply see the situation through differening lenses.

Hostory tells us even when NCSoft had something to gain, not simply nothing to lose, they still refued to make a deal.

 

Only time and results will tell, which is also my point, talking in these circles has no impact on those results.

 

As for my PoV on the players, nothing has changed since Day 4 of Live when I began playing.

IMO, most of them base thier choices on emotion rather than logic and IME, emotion clouds logical thinking.

We have seen posts here and elsewhere showing there are plenty that are still using emotions to make choices about how the game should/could go.

 

Toodles.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

/e doublefacepalm

/e triplefacepalm

[Troo]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

/e triplefacepalm

pesky aliens. I can't out do that.

[NNDeepdish]

1 hour ago, Abraxus said:

I hope I get the opportunity to call you on that someday soon. 😉

I hope you do too :)