So what next? My next MM (Project & Build Request)

[Scarlet Shocker]

My Demons/Cold is about as complete as I think I can get her, and I'm working on a Beast/Thermal for shits & giggles, though I'm not yet fully decided how that feels and it may fall by the wayside.

 

I'm less experienced with MMs than many ATs - but I've had a Beast/Rad and a Thugs/Poison - both of which I found lacking. Beasts because the rad provided no shielding so they fall down go boom pretty quick, and thugs was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on live, pre-incarnates and really only good at ST stuff. (As a comparison my Dark/Poison controller was way superior in about every aspect and even did very well in PVP. )

 

So I am thinking what should I go for next. I'm kind of toying with the idea of a /Dark MM reading the boards here. So that would lead me to... what exactly?

 

I'm not so keen on Zombies... or Ninjas... in my brief experimentations with them they seem stupid and chaotic and I'm not sure how Mercs would fit. I understand Bots are pretty tough but the concept of Bots/Dark kind of jars a bit - feels slightly clunky to me (not insuperably so...) I should also add that while I understand its power, I dislike how /Time plays and I'm not likely to look at that in the face of more interesting options, even if it's more potent.

 

So I'm interested in knowing what you more expert readers would consider to be worthwhile - any and all MM options are on the table. What do you suggest, and why? What's good about your idea, what are its strenghts and weaknesses and if you have a build to back that up I'd be interested.

 

Perhaps this might become a useful resource for budding MM novices in time.

 

Cheers for now

Edited February 10, 2020 by Scarlet Shocker

[Seigmoraig]

Thugs is really good and is not only a ST focused set! You have the Arsonist that has 3 AoE powers. The Enforcers have a cone machine gun thing and the Bruiser has Foot Stomp. Gang War can also be thought as another AoE power since it just summons 10 dudes that rampage around. Gang War is also nice to have because it can serve as a mule power for all the Mastermind pet aura IOs from the various sets.
I am currently playing a Thugs/Cold and I also have a Demons/Dark. I could see how great Thugs/Dark would be since you already have a /Cold.
/Dark is really a whole bag of fun to be sure, almost all of the powers are fantastic (except Black Hole). You got great CC, great debuffs, a very strong heal (that needs an accuracy slot to be usable because it whiffs) and a 7th pet.

I also really like /Time but you seem to be like my friend who can't stand the visuals even though it's a great set (Which I can respect, some sets are just ugly)

[Redlynne]

3 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I'm not so keen on Zombies... or Ninjas... in my brief experimentations with them they seem stupid and chaotic

Ninja/Time/Mace can be a LOT of fun to play ...

[Scarlet Shocker]

both interesting choices but... Ninja/Time/Mace has two things not going for it I guess. I did read Redlynne's long post, tho I'll be honest and say a lot of it went over my head.

 

One /Dark question - does Shadow Fall interfere with Supremacy? It seems like it should. If it doesn't, what's different about it?

 

 

[Seigmoraig]

3 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

One /Dark question - does Shadow Fall interfere with Supremacy? It seems like it should. If it doesn't, what's different about it?

Supremacy will only not affect your pets if they are out of range, if you are phased or if you are in an only affecting self state. Shadow Fall is a stealth power which doesn't toggle any of these conditions, similar to the stealth from /Cold and /Storm

Edited February 10, 2020 by Seigmoraig

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

Supremacy will only not affect your pets if they are out of range, if you are phased or if you are in an only affecting self state. Shadow Fall is a stealth power which doesn't toggle any of these conditions, similar to the stealth from /Cold and /Storm

I'm sorry but I'm finding this reply ambiguous.

[Troo]

yes

[Seigmoraig]

36 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I'm sorry but I'm finding this reply ambiguous.

Phased is a state that happens when you are in another dimension. This is what happens when you cast Black Hole from /Dark or Dimension Shift from Gravity Control.
Only Target Self is a state that you are in when you cast something like Detention Field from Force Fields or Phase Shift from the Concealment pool

Stealth is something different all together when you are invisible but can see be affected, affect others and detected if the target has enough perception. Shadow Fall works the same way as Stalker stealth, /Cold stealth, /Storm stealth and Concealment stealth.

Long story short, Shadow Fall does not interfere with Supremacy and it shouldn't because it's a stealth class power

Edited February 10, 2020 by Seigmoraig

[Scarlet Shocker]

51 minutes ago, Troo said:

yes

LOL I presume you're responding to my question - but it seems at odds with Seigmoraig's more elaborate answer.

 

 

28 minutes ago, Seigmoraig said:

Phased is a state that happens when you are in another dimension. This is what happens when you cast Black Hole from /Dark or Dimension Shift from Gravity Control.
Only Target Self is a state that you are in when you cast something like Detention Field from Force Fields or Phase Shift from the Concealment pool

Stealth is something different all together when you are invisible but can see be affected, affect others and detected if the target has enough perception. Shadow Fall works the same way as Stalker stealth, /Cold stealth, /Storm stealth and Concealment stealth.

Long story short, Shadow Fall does not interfere with Supremacy and it shouldn't because it's a stealth class power

 

Ok thanks that makes much more sense. I was obviously misinformed about stealth powers - caused me to respec my Demons/Cold as a result but hey ho. So, to be clear, I could take a stealth power such as Steamy Mist, and pop a Stealth Proc in Sprint, becoming quite invisible and still not lose Supremacy over my minions?

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

I've come up with this - there are obvious holes in it but it's something to go at. Constructive commentary welcome and encouraged. Feel free to post alernative builds too.

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

A Thug With No Name: Level 50 Mutation Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(3), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(5), SvrRgh-PetResDam(5), EdcoftheM-PetDef(7)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(11), CldSns-%Dam(13), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(13)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- PcnoftheT--Rchg%(A), PcnoftheT-Acc/Slow(15)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 6: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17)
Level 8: Weaken Resolve -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(17), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(19)
Level 10: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Darkest Night -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(19), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(21), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(21), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23), CldSns-%Dam(23)
Level 14: Howling Twilight -- AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(A), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(25), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(25)
Level 16: Call Enforcer -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(27), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(29), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(31)
Level 18: Empty Clips -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(31), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(33), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Rgn-Knock%(33)
Level 20: Gang War -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(34), OvrFrc-End/Rech(34), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(46), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(46), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--Build%(34), RctRtc-Pcptn(36)
Level 24: Fearsome Stare -- DflEgo-RecDeb%(A), UnsTrr-Stun%(36)
Level 26: Project Will -- EntChs-Heal%(A), Dcm-Build%(36), Apc-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 28: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(39)
Level 32: Call Bruiser -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(39), SlbAll-Dmg(39), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(40), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SlbAll-Build%(40)
Level 35: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Petrifying Gaze -- BslGaz-Slow%(A), BslGaz-Acc/Hold(42)
Level 41: Dark Servant -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(42), SprEnt-End/Rchg(42), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(43), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(43), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(43)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Ags-Psi/Status(45), GldArm-3defTpProc(45), ImpArm-ResPsi(45)
Level 47: Soul Tentacles -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(50), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(50)
Level 49: Mighty Leap -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(A), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Heal-I(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(9), EndMod-I(9)
Level 1: Punk
Level 1: Arsonist
Level 16: Enforcer
Level 32: Bruiser
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 19% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 19% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 19% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 19% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 19% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 19% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 19% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 19% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 6% Defense(Melee)
• 10% Defense
• 6% Defense(Smashing)
• 6% Defense(Lethal)
• 18.5% Defense(Fire)
• 18.5% Defense(Cold)
• 15.38% Defense(Energy)
• 15.38% Defense(Negative)
• 6% Defense(Psionic)
• 13.5% Defense(Ranged)
• 31% Defense(AoE)
• 4.5% Max End
• 75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 22.5% SpeedFlying
• 24.1 HP (3%) HitPoints
• 22.5% JumpHeight
• 22.5% SpeedJumping
• MezResist(Confused) 71.25%
• MezResist(Held) 71.25%
• MezResist(Immobilized) 71.25%
• MezResist(Sleep) 71.25%
• MezResist(Stunned) 71.25%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 71.25%
• MezResist(Teleport) 100% (20% chance)
• 20% PerceptionRadius
• 16% (0.27 End/sec) Recovery
• 210% (7.03 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 30% ResEffect(SpeedFlying)
• 30% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
• 30% ResEffect(SpeedRunning)
• 35% Resistance(Smashing)
• 35% Resistance(Lethal)
• 62.75% Resistance(Fire)
• 62.75% Resistance(Cold)
• 41.75% Resistance(Energy)
• 41.75% Resistance(Negative)
• 43.25% Resistance(Toxic)
• 54.25% Resistance(Psionic)
• 22.5% SpeedRunning
  

 

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[Seigmoraig]

37 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I could take a stealth power such as Steamy Mist, and pop a Stealth Proc in Sprint, becoming quite invisible and still not lose Supremacy over my minions?

 

Yup, that's it, and on top of that Steamy Mist will give a 3.5% def (i think ? not 100% sure on the amount) while in combat

Edited February 10, 2020 by Seigmoraig

[tremor3258]

Warning if you aren't familiar with using stealth powers, hostage escorts are affected by perception and this can be a factor with wondering where that surgeon, nothing more, wandered off to.

[Zeraphia]

A few things about Thugs...

 

1. Thugs are PROC MONSTERS... 

2. The Bonus of Superior Mark of Supremacy 10% recharge can be applied 3 TIMES...

3. The Enforcers can slot in Gaussian's Build Up Proc because they give tactics and tactics is bugged with Gaussians and **OVER-TRIGGERS** it. 

4. Gang War can hold all so many of the defense/resist bonuses that you don't want to waste slots on for your other pets damage. 

5. Enforcers can slot Shield Breaker AND Touch of Lady Grey damage procs... Yes these do trigger **EXTREMELY** often.

6. BOTH Bruiser AND regular Thugs can slot Explosive Strike procs which again trigger extremely often.

These procs beef up your pet's damage by absurd amounts. Do not take this advice lightly. 

7. You can slot in Soulbound Allegiance in Bruiser which means for all 3 of your hardest hitting minions REGULARLY have buildup on (one is a brute with fury bonus, the other two are corruptors with SCOURGE bonuses - crits.)

 

Here is a sample build for Thugs/Time I made, the defense with barrier core ends up being 43% all positionals, hasten/chrono shift are almost permanent, the minions are fully proc'd out, there is a proc monster AOE in Distortion Field which opens the battle with about 400-500 damage, has an AOE proc hit that also immobolizes, and softcaps your minions to all positionals as well as having capped S/L res and over 50% energy (with the barrier). 

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(7), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(9), ExpStr-Dam%(9), HO:Nucle(11)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(3), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(7)
Level 4: Time's Juncture -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(33), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(34), DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(34), ImpSwf-Dam%(37)
Level 6: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Empty Clips -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(46)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Call Enforcer -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), ShlBrk-%Dam(13), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(15), GssSynFr--Build%(15), TchofLadG-%Dam(17)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(17), GldNet-Dam%(23), ImpSwf-Dam%(31), UnbCns-Dam%(31), ImpSwf-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(33)
Level 18: Gang War -- EdcoftheM-PetDef(A), SvrRgh-PetResDam(19), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(23)
Level 20: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(40), GldArm-3defTpProc(42), UnbGrd-ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(43)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 26: Call Bruiser -- SlbAll-Build%(A), SlbAll-Dmg(27), ExpStr-Dam%(27), HO:Nucle(29), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(31)
Level 28: Farsight -- RedFrt-EndRdx(A), RedFrt-Def(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(36), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(48), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(39), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(39), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(39), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40), NmnCnv-Heal(40)
Level 41: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Charged Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 47: Electrifying Fences -- PstBls-Dam%(A), TraoftheH-Dam%(48), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Burnout -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Supremacy 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(33)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(48), PrfShf-EndMod(36)
Level 1: Punk 
Level 1: Arsonist 
Level 12: Enforcer 
Level 26: Bruiser 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------