Best human form?

[Marshal_General]

Of the two, which one would be best for Human form and which would be best for tri or dual form?

 

I am trying to decide how to go with each.

Thanks.

[Microcosm]

For me, as someone who goes for monster io builds, I prefer the PB as human or mayyybee dual form, and the warshade definitely triform. Some people will argue for human form warshade, but it seems like missed opportunities to me. Once you get perma light form on a PB, there is almost no reason to use dwarf again, but warshades still want the mire and might need situational resistance. If human toggles didnt drop when switching forms but just stopped functioning/costing endurance, I would say never skip nova on either, but retoggling a bunch of stuff on my PB means I just don't use it. The PB seems to have better human attacks and more frequent clicks, whereas the warshade spends less time dropping to human so it lends itself to using the forms more.

[Azrath]

I'm capable of running perma-Eclipse on my Warshade; and it takes less than a half dozen mobs to saturate it to the resist cap, along with enough Stealth to sneak up on Lusca.  A high level shade can ghost in, Eclipse, Mire, nuke, corpse-nuke, grab a fluffy, refill their bars and move on.

 

Eclipse needing enemies nearby doesn't make it worse than Light Form.  If you aren't around enemies, why do you need the buff?  :)

 

I'm sure there's some Hamidon-soloing corner case where one is superior to the other; but for the most part they're both perfectly viable.

[Marshal_General]

Well if they are both about equal in human form, what about dual or tri form?

[Action Sloth]

Having played both as high end human form builds (my PB build had essentially the same benchmarks as my WS build, but I believe more health because of perma dull pain) and I felt like the WS vastly outperformed the PB.

Lightform is, I believe, arguably a straight downgrade to Eclipse - based on Lightform's psi hole and crash, neither of which apply to Eclipse. Also, as someone stated, you can cap your resistances with eclipse off just a few enemies, so you don't need to get anywhere close to the target cap to get the full benefit, my WS build caps to all but psi and toxic damage (they're at 66.3%) with just 3 enemies. Four enemies brings the psi/tox resist to 1.6% under cap (83.4%) with the fifth obviously covering that last smidge.

Additionally, to me at least, the WSs attack chains and general gameplay felt a lot smoother and synergistic than my PB. I feel like the lack of knockback is already a huge plus for WSs, and they get the best personal heal and +end skill in the game (whereas PBs only get conserve power and DP and a self heal), good damage buffs uptime with Mire (which is very big because khelds weakest aspect compared to other ATs is damage), and more useful pets than PBs (though both are marginally useful compared to the other aspects of the build).

Also, there's no need to use dwarf mire with human form, as due to the toggle drop on form shift, you're likely to die before you can retoggle your defenses after swapping to dwarf and back in the middle of a mob.

Overall I'd say high end human form PBs builds only really have the fact that they don't need mobs to reach their max potential, but that potential seems to be considerably lower than for MFn WSs. Oh, also, PBs can get the ally heal and call themselves a healer I guess, that's what I did.

I'm biased towards my WS, but I really gave my PB the best shot I could and ended up disappointed. Nothing feels as good as capping your resist and activating godmode, nuking three groups in a row and getting full health and end off just 2 bodies every 8 seconds. Your health and end are literally unlimited. It's beautiful.

When I get home I'll post the build I used on my PB for reference. If you're curious, the WS build I used is linked in my sig

 

Edit: MFn PB build edited for i25 (open slots are for KB->KD IOs)

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[jbrown859]

What did you do as you leveled up/slotted up your mfin ws? tri form i assume?

[Action Sloth]

To be honest I dont really remember what I did leveling up, but it was probably bi or triform, that's probably what I'd recommend and will do when I have the time to level one up

[Marshal_General]

What are some good binds to use?

I use this one for targeting though for some reason it will not let go of a dead target. Otherwise it works for finding those pesky Nictus.

 

space "target_enemy_near$$targetcustomnext alive quantum$$targetcustomnext alive dark dwarf$$targetcustomnext alive white dwarf$$targetcustomnext alive bright nova$$targetcustomnext alive dark nova$$targetcustomnext alive void$$targetcustomnext alive cyst"

[Microcosm]

What are some good binds to use?

I use this one for targeting though for some reason it will not let go of a dead target. Otherwise it works for finding those pesky Nictus.

 

space "target_enemy_near$$targetcustomnext alive quantum$$targetcustomnext alive dark dwarf$$targetcustomnext alive white dwarf$$targetcustomnext alive bright nova$$targetcustomnext alive dark nova$$targetcustomnext alive void$$targetcustomnext alive cyst"

 

Honestly you should just go read the kheldian bind sticky on the old forums. It's got almost everything you'd ever want. Perhaps we can get Smiling Joe to repost it here and have a mod sticky it for us. I will also try to repost the inspiration maker guides over here when I'm back in the States (in Japan atm without computer). Give me a few I'll drop a link to Joe's old post.

 

Edit: https://web.archive.org/web/20120904200253/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=190418

[Auri]

Two cents.

 

My Peacebringer is all-human and runs perma light form. She can solo x8 +4 reasonably well, and can farm up a veteran level in about an hour by herself.

 

That said, the well-built endgame Warshade is going to outperform her drastically in these situations. There's no real contest.

 

I still favor the Peacebringer for being self-contained: you can take a human Peacebringer into PvP, and you will be fine if you have no targets to drain. Being able to spam 300+ heals every 2 seconds is also remarkably useful. But if you want to be a PvE monster, the Warshade is a clear winner.

[Veracor]

Out of curiosity, or perhaps foolishness, I've been juggling the idea of rolling a human-only Kheld.  PB stood out to me with attack chains that can all slot the Force Feedback proc, and this ended up making it relatively close to tri-form WS damage (assuming a more realistic 7-8 person hit off of the Mires instead of 10).

 

The issue I'm seeing is that human-only PBs don't pick up any good Stun protection, or am I missing something, somewhere?

[Microcosm]

Out of curiosity, or perhaps foolishness, I've been juggling the idea of rolling a human-only Kheld.  PB stood out to me with attack chains that can all slot the Force Feedback proc, and this ended up making it relatively close to tri-form WS damage (assuming a more realistic 7-8 person hit off of the Mires instead of 10).

 

The issue I'm seeing is that human-only PBs don't pick up any good Stun protection, or am I missing something, somewhere?

Light form has stun protection last I checked. They don't get confuse, fear, kb, end drain, or slow protections. Tactics helps with the confuse and fear, and kb IOs are easy enough to find. However you aren't going to touch a triform ws on damage, mostly just because of their pets, so I would get that out of your mind before you're disappointed. Pbs do have better a better single target chain though and are more consistent overall.

[Auri]

If you end up going human form, you'll want to consider Clarion Epiphany from the Incarnate system. It's permanent mez protection on top of Light Form.

[Veracor]

If you end up going human form, you'll want to consider Clarion Epiphany from the Incarnate system. It's permanent mez protection on top of Light Form.

 

Ah, okay, I see it now that I'm looking at the entire skill description of Clarion in Pine's.  I was under the impression that between the -3 from Light Form (or zero from WS) and the fall-off effect from Destiny that there would be a Stun hole at some point.  Looks like Clarion provides -6 for its whole recharge.

[Auri]

Yep! And from my experience, if you forget to hit it on cooldown, you can still use it while CCed much like a break free. I've not regretted slotting it.

And, you know, you're also giving it to allies, which is neat.

[Texman]

Out of curiosity, or perhaps foolishness, I've been juggling the idea of rolling a human-only Kheld.  PB stood out to me with attack chains that can all slot the Force Feedback proc, and this ended up making it relatively close to tri-form WS damage (assuming a more realistic 7-8 person hit off of the Mires instead of 10).

 

The issue I'm seeing is that human-only PBs don't pick up any good Stun protection, or am I missing something, somewhere?

 

What does this force feedback proc do and does it really put human PB on par with human WS?  I'm wanting to do a human only or human/dwarf Kheld that is a PVE monster. 

 

Another question:  what are some useful human only or dual form keybinds or is there a good place to find these?  Thanks

 

 

[Redlynne]

What does this force feedback proc do

 

HINT ...

[Texman]

Thank you for the link.  I'm trying to decide on a main character to level to 50 (have several 20-30s).  I want to PVE only and have a hero that feels powerful and is good solo and on teams.  I've narrowed my choices based on a concept down to the following:

 

Human PB

Human WS

SS/Rad Brute

 

Any feedback is appreciated.  Thanks!

[Microcosm]

 

What does this force feedback proc do and does it really put human PB on par with human WS?

 

That was a contentious question back in the day. There's always been the consistency of the PB balanced against the rollercoaster style of the ws, but if you accept that balance (which I do), there are still a couple of discrepancies. Pbs have too much kb, plain and simple, which means you spend more time chasing targets than ws's, but pbs also have better attack chains in human form so you can argue it balances there. The big difference that you cannot overcome though is the pets. The ws pet is flat out superior to the PB one, and really to any non-mm pet in the game. No amount of force feedback proc firing is going to make up for an IOd ws running around with three pets wreaking havok. When arbiter hawk updated khelds this was really the only thing he missed balancing (besides kb, but there were always avid supporters if it) on an otherwise awesome job of improvements to the at.