crafting Yellow Salvage Prices

[MunkiLord]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Converters equalize.  Buy low sell high flippers do not

We also post and craft and sell in mass and hoard influence. All which takes currency out of circulation, which directly slows down inflation. 

 

Perhaps this is coincidence, but when I stopped flooding the market with Luck of the Gambler +Recharge for two months, the price went from 6.5 million to 8.5 million. I was converting 20-100 everyday. Is that price increase just because I took a break? Of course not, but I had some sort of impact, and I'm not the only one doing it. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 minute ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Lol. You’re inflating the going rate by flooding the market with low bids.  If your 100 bids were not in there do you really think the price would go up?  That’s 100 other people who could buy that IO at 1 mill.  I have a 1 percent chance of getting that IO over you at the same price with my 1 bid.  If you put in 100 bids to up your chances and resold what you didn’t need for the price you paid, then you wouldn’t be driving the prices up.  

Dude, you really don't understand how the AH works, do you?  Drop me a PM and I'll put together a basic primer for you.

[Brutal Justice]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

We also post and craft and sell in mass and hoard influence. All which takes currency out of circulation, which directly slows down inflation. 

 

Perhaps this is coincidence, but when I stopped flooding the market with Luck of the Gambler +Recharge for two months, the price went from 6.5 million to 8.5 million. I was converting 20-100 everyday. Is that price increase just because I took a break? Of course not, but I had some sort of impact, and I'm not the only one doing it. 

That’s converting, not flipping.  Flooding the market would imply you are putting more of that IO into the market than existed before.  Flipping is just flooding bids and reposting what already existed at a higher price.  Neither of these provide supply.  One of these is a net wash on IO prices.  One of these is inflating prices

[Obus Form]

5 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I was converting 20-100 everyday.

Thank you @MunkiLordfor applying to the Philanthroping Unused Cool Kids Under-cutters guild of elitism.  Unfortunately 20-100 conversions of LoTG Recharge daily is not enough to enter these halls.  We are looking for applicants converting 200-300 IOs daily.  We thank you for your application and wish you best of luck on your journey to becoming a COH Influencer.

 

Sincerely,

PUCKU self-appointed Guild Master.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Obus Form

[MunkiLord]

Just now, Mr.Sinister said:

That’s converting, not flipping.  Flooding the market would imply you are putting more of that IO into the market than existed before.  Flipping is just flooding bids and reposting what already existed at a higher price.  Neither of these provide supply.  One of these is a net wash on IO prices.  One of these is inflating prices

That 10% cut for hundreds and hundreds of billions of influence that we move, for fun, takes that directly out of circulation. As does the hundreds of billions we have stored on our accounts. That is literally hundreds of billions, likely trillions, of influence no longer in the market. Which directly fights inflation and therefore helps keep prices lower.

 

If I could get enough to agree, I'd love to demonstrate by us all spending all of our influence as fast as we can. You think prices are artificially high now, see what happens if we start spending it.

[Brutal Justice]

15 minutes ago, The Philotic Knight said:

Buy low, sell high flippers have virtually no effect on the long term market. You can still still get what you want, you just have to be smart enough to figure out how to use the tools that are at your disposal for getting what you want. If you can't figure out how to make the market work to your advantage... the problem isn't in the market, my friend.

 

There is nothing wrong with the HC market, period. As @Yomo Kimyata mentioned above, the way the HC market is right now, it's literally impossible to actually affect anyone in a truly negative way, unless they are only looking at ONE WAY to get what they want.

Buying low, selling high isn’t a matter of intelligence.  It’s a matter of greed.   You did nothing but take from your fellow man.  Farming and providing supply is a service to your fellow man.  

[_NOPE_]

Just now, Mr.Sinister said:

You did nothing but take from your fellow man.

You're making the gross assumption that I flip. It's an incorrect one.

[MunkiLord]

7 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Thank you @MunkiLordfor applying to the Philanthroping Unused Cool Kids Under-cutters guild of elitism.  Unfortunately 20-100 conversions of LoTG Recharge daily is not enough to enter these halls.  We are looking for applicants converting 200-300 IOs daily.  We thank you for your application and wish you best of luck on your journey to becoming a COH Influencer.

 

Sincerely,

PUCKU self-appointed Guild Master.

That's what I was doing a few weeks ago! But not all the same enhancement. I did however buy almost 500 miracle enhancements for 2,000,069 each and converted them all to Miracle +Recovery just to see how much I'd make. The answer, not much without the display bug.

[Brutal Justice]

2 minutes ago, The Philotic Knight said:

You're making the gross assumption that I flip. It's an incorrect one.

You’re making the gross assumption that I’m not intelligent enough to make the market work for me...

[_NOPE_]

Just now, Mr.Sinister said:

You’re making the gross assumption that I’m not intelligent enough to make the market work for me...

No, you're outright stating that the market isn't working for you, hence your complaints about it.

[Brutal Justice]

Just now, The Philotic Knight said:

No, you're outright stating that the market isn't working for you, hence your complaints about it.

Uh no.  I said flippers are a cancer.  

[_NOPE_]

Just now, Mr.Sinister said:

Uh no.  I said flippers are a cancer.  

Because... why? Please be specific, because it seems that none of us are apparently understanding your main point. We seem to fail to see the issue that you see. So please, enlighten us on what's wrong with flipping, and how it affects the market in a very specific way.

[MunkiLord]

Gonna circle back around and throw my amazing idea of a UFC supergroup out there. The United Flippers Coalition should be a thing. Someone should lead it so I can be a follower. 
 

I think a good entrance fee is everyone that joins has to give away 5 billion influence spread between at least five players, then delete five billion influence. Why? Because we can afford it. 

[Brutal Justice]

Just now, The Philotic Knight said:

Because... why? Please be specific, because it seems that none of us are apparently understanding your main point. We seem to fail to see the issue that you see. So please, enlighten us on what's wrong with flipping, and how it affects the market in a very specific way.

I have been trying to make the distinction between a flipper and a person who converts.

 

I don’t know how to be any clearer.  I don’t see an issue with a person who buys a cheap IO, converts it into a valuable IO, and sells the new valuable IO at the going rate for that valuable IO.  

 

If you're flipping like @Yomo Kimyata has admitted to then you’re a cancer.  If you buy a valuable IO and realist the same IO for 4x the price you paid you’re clearly driving the price up on that IO.  Just like the yellow salvage...

 

1 =1

1x4=4

 

that seems about as clear as it can be...

 

to to buy more than you need is greed.  There is no toilet paper to buy right now because somebody bought 47 packs for themselves because they are afraid of the corona virus.  Greed.  

 

You ever try to buy a limited edition item in the real world but they were sold out before you could buy one?  Then you go on eBay and realize individuals bought way more than they need to relist at 4x the price of the original.  Did you think that person did the economy a favor?   They are greedy and that is it.

[Banazir Galasbor]

I used to love watching the show Flipper in syndication back in the early 70's.   So I'm wondering why you all are calling a person a Dolphin in COH AH terms?

[MunkiLord]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

I have been trying to make the distinction between a flipper and a person who converts.

 

I don’t know how to be any clearer.  I don’t see an issue with a person who buys a cheap IO, converts it into a valuable IO, and sells the new valuable IO at the going rate for that valuable IO.  

 

If you're flipping like @Yomo Kimyata has admitted to then you’re a cancer.  If you buy a valuable IO and realist the same IO for 4x the price you paid you’re clearly driving the price up on that IO.  Just like the yellow salvage...

 

1 =1

1x4=4

 

that seems about as clear as it can be...

 

to to buy more than you need is greed.  There is no toilet paper to buy right now because somebody bought 47 packs for themselves because they are afraid of the corona virus.  Greed.  

 

You ever try to buy a limited edition item in the real world but they were sold out before you could buy one?  Then you go on eBay and realize individuals bought way more than they need to relist at 4x the price of the original.  Did you think that person did the economy a favor?   They are greedy and that is it.

Look, you're allowed to be wrong. What flippers do is normalize the price. The floor is higher, but the ceiling is lower. 
 

To make you extra wrong you're comparing real real items with limited supply to digital goods with infinite supply. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by MunkiLord

[Yomo Kimyata]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

I have been trying to make the distinction between a flipper and a person who converts.

 

I don’t know how to be any clearer.  I don’t see an issue with a person who buys a cheap IO, converts it into a valuable IO, and sells the new valuable IO at the going rate for that valuable IO.  

 

If you're flipping like @Yomo Kimyata has admitted to then you’re a cancer.  If you buy a valuable IO and realist the same IO for 4x the price you paid you’re clearly driving the price up on that IO.  Just like the yellow salvage...

 

1 =1

1x4=4

 

that seems about as clear as it can be...

 

to to buy more than you need is greed.  There is no toilet paper to buy right now because somebody bought 47 packs for themselves because they are afraid of the corona virus.  Greed.  

 

You ever try to buy a limited edition item in the real world but they were sold out before you could buy one?  Then you go on eBay and realize individuals bought way more than they need to relist at 4x the price of the original.  Did you think that person did the economy a favor?   They are greedy and that is it.

I'm going to offer one more time to explain how the AH works.  I think PM might be a better venue, but I'll be happy to post a really simple primer on the forums if that's better for you.  You clearly don't understand how bidding and offering works.  As to your example, I'm not buying toilet paper at $10 a package and selling it at $40.  I'm buying tp at $1 a package because somebody wanted to dump it on the market and didn't know or care that the market price was higher, and I'm selling it at $8 a package, which is still below market price.

 

Please don't call me names.  Devs don't like that and I'm not too fond of it either.

 

[_NOPE_]

@Mr.Sinister, as long as people still have the ability to set their own buy price and wait for the bid to be fulfilled... Your argument is invalid. It's only the impatient that have to be worried about the "cancer" you are naming. 

[Grouchybeast]

8 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Look, you're allowed to be wrong. What flippers do is normalize the price. The floor is higher, but the ceiling is lower. 
 

To make you extra wrong you're comparing real real items with limited supply to digital goods with infinite supply. 

Or to put it another way:

 

If you want to walk into WW (I know, I know, /ah) and slap down a pile of your farmer inf for an IO at buy it nao prices, then flipping is, to a greater or lesser amount, lowering the amount that you'll pay.

 

If you want to hoard your farmer inf and be patient, then you will need to offer exactly one more inf than the price the flipper is paying, and you'll get your single IO before they get their hundred.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[Brutal Justice]

Just now, The Philotic Knight said:

@Mr.Sinister, as long as people still have the ability to set their own buy price and wait for the bid to be fulfilled... Your argument is invalid. It's only the impatient that have to be worried about the "cancer" you are naming. 

Untrue.  If I bid x1 and you bid x100 I have a 1 percent chance of getting the item over you.  Add more people bidding the same price and I have a lower chance.  It takes 100 people to offset your greed.  If 5 of those people decide to bid higher to either out bid you or pay the new price you’re setting then others will follow.  Now my 1 bid is no longer at market value and goes unfilled... just like all my yellow salvage bids of 1k.

 

 1 person’s greed has had the same affect as adding 100 new buyers to the list.  It has artificially inflated the market price because the 100 new buyers are, in fact, artificial.  If there were an actual 100 new buyers then that would be actual market value. One is artificial one is actual.  

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Untrue.  If I bid x1 and you bid x100 I have a 1 percent chance of getting the item over you.  Add more people bidding the same price and I have a lower chance.  It takes 100 people to offset your greed.  If 5 of those people decide to bid higher to either out bid you or pay the new price you’re setting then others will follow.  Now my 1 bid is no longer at market value and goes unfilled... just like all my yellow salvage bids of 1k.

 

 1 person’s greed has had the same affect as adding 100 new buyers to the list.  It has artificially inflated the market price because the 100 new buyers are, in fact, artificial.  If there were an actual 100 new buyers then that would be actual market value. One is artificial one is actual.  

So if those 100 bids weren't there, "artificially" creating demand, would as many people bother supplying said item at all?

[_NOPE_]

 

2 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Untrue.  If I bid x1 and you bid x100 I have a 1 percent chance of getting the item over you.  Add more people bidding the same price and I have a lower chance.  It takes 100 people to offset your greed.  If 5 of those people decide to bid higher to either out bid you or pay the new price you’re setting then others will follow.  Now my 1 bid is no longer at market value and goes unfilled... just like all my yellow salvage bids of 1k.

 

 1 person’s greed has had the same affect as adding 100 new buyers to the list.  It has artificially inflated the market price because the 100 new buyers are, in fact, artificial.  If there were an actual 100 new buyers then that would be actual market value. One is artificial one is actual.  

Your price is too low then. HC has seeded the uncommon salvage at 100k. Thus, that's the "fair market price" as determined by this server's developers. Any price that the salvage may exist at below that level is a net benefit to the playerbase due to a larger number of farmers, but should not be expected. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 minute ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Untrue.  If I bid x1 and you bid x100 I have a 1 percent chance of getting the item over you.  Add more people bidding the same price and I have a lower chance.  It takes 100 people to offset your greed.  If 5 of those people decide to bid higher to either out bid you or pay the new price you’re setting then others will follow.  Now my 1 bid is no longer at market value and goes unfilled... just like all my yellow salvage bids of 1k.

 

 1 person’s greed has had the same affect as adding 100 new buyers to the list.  It has artificially inflated the market price because the 100 new buyers are, in fact, artificial.  If there were an actual 100 new buyers then that would be actual market value. One is artificial one is actual.  

Ok, AH lesson number one.  You place bids and offers at different levels.  If PK bids x100 at 1mm, and you bid x1 at 1,000,001, you don't have a 1% chance of getting the next item placed for sale at that price or lower.  You have 100% chance.  And if 100 offers come in after that, all less than 1mm, that's when he gets filled.

 

There is no random factor in buying or selling unless more than one person is either buying or selling at the exact same price.  I'm not sure if trades are assigned then based on FIFO, or random allocation, or some other factor.

[MunkiLord]

31 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

If you're flipping like @Yomo Kimyata has admitted to then you’re a cancer.  If you buy a valuable IO and realist the same IO for 4x the price you paid you’re clearly driving the price up on that IO.  Just like the yellow salvage...

Also, I once noticed some odd behavior on the market and mentioned it in a thread. That odd behavior turned out to be Yoko trying to flood rare salvage with supply to bring prices back down, which worked for a bit too. So your comment here is ignorant, blatantly untrue, and uncalled for.

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

There is no random factor in buying or selling unless more than one person is either buying or selling at the exact same price.  I'm not sure if trades are assigned then based on FIFO, or random allocation, or some other factor.

First, not enough people use FIFO in day to day life. Love it.

 

I have no evidence to support this, but I suspect it is random if the bids are the same solely based on a few random observations I've seen from time to time. Also I tend to bid on converters 500-1000 at a time and the stacks don't always fill in order, or even a complete stack before moving to another one. But I'm not sure if that is because it's the same character/account doing that.