An Old Argument - ability to self cast ‘ally only’ buffs

[Peacemoon]

This just came up again in another thread and so thought I’d post it here. Being able to self cast buffs to aid in soloing for some of the support sets.

I.E fortitude, force fields, forge, etc.

 

- All characters should be able to solo, a lot of these sets will never be the greatest solo characters even with self buffing, so why not throw them a bone?

- A lot of support sets can be bent towards helping solo already, so why not help out the others?

-conceptually it’s a shame when you have a character who, for example, specialises in force

fields but can’t shield themselves. 
-a lot of the ‘newer sets’ have had their powers added in a more ‘clever’ way, by making them PBAoE, so they effect the caster. I imagine this was a deliberate design decision. Fade and Farsight spring to mind. 
-Power choices can now grant multiple powers. If it has to, ally only buffs could also grant a second self only version with reduced numbers?!
 

I know this is very pie in the sky, but we can dream. I don’t see Empathy and FF defenders suddenly becoming OP gods (like melee ATs can be...) if they can self cast some buffs, and might actually make them a bit more fun when not in a team. 
 

Anyway just some ideas, in my mind there is a way of doing this without it being stupid, so that these heroes/villains can be more fun when solo.

 

Disclaimer: my main characters are Dark/Dark controller, Mind/Psy dominator, and Rad/AR defender. So this doesn’t effect me directly! I’m very glad I can AM myself when solo...

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i dunno man some buffs are better left as targeted aoes rather than pbaoes. I do like your self buffing proposal i think when a support class is solo all of their buffs should self buff. On teams the buffs revert back to their normal targeting. (Summoning a pet counts as a team)

[Nanolathe]

2 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

I know this is very pie in the sky, but we can dream. I don’t see Empathy and FF defenders suddenly becoming OP gods (like melee ATs can be...) if they can self cast some buffs, and might actually make them a bit more fun when not in a team. 

Masterminds that focus on buffing might get too much from this. They're already hard to get killed unless you're really not paying attention and have a respectable clear-time on missions already. Giving them a mostly full suite of defence and/or resistances could tip them over the edge into "unstoppable" territory. Anecdotally I can personally attest to being very, very difficult to kill already with /Cold and /Thermal MMs... and I'm fairly reckless when solo. (I'm most comfortable playing on +2 / x4 at present, for reference)

 

But I don't have an intrinsic objection to the idea, just that it affects some ATs and some power combination a lot more than other, and as such needs some careful attention to balancing.

[Uun]

I think this change makes sense. I've never understood why somebody that can create force/ice/fire/sonic shields wouldn't be able to shield themselves. I can't speak to masterminds, but it's certainly not going to make defenders, corruptors or controllers OP (not that controllers really need it). If you're fighting an 8-person team and one of the 8 doesn't have a shield, who are you going to shoot?

[Naraka]

12 hours ago, Nanolathe said:

Masterminds that focus on buffing might get too much from this. They're already hard to get killed unless you're really not paying attention and have a respectable clear-time on missions already. Giving them a mostly full suite of defence and/or resistances could tip them over the edge into "unstoppable" territory. Anecdotally I can personally attest to being very, very difficult to kill already with /Cold and /Thermal MMs... and I'm fairly reckless when solo. (I'm most comfortable playing on +2 / x4 at present, for reference)

 

But I don't have an intrinsic objection to the idea, just that it affects some ATs and some power combination a lot more than other, and as such needs some careful attention to balancing.

This is definitely one reason I'm semi-against just granting support sets self-targeted buffs.  It shifts balance in wonky ways and it's better to aim for individually targeted changes to assist instead.  As quoted, Masterminds already have a lower scale on their buffs than other ATs and still obtain a large benefit since technically their buffs are usable solo already but only some buffs actually help (+rech buffs don't help pets, for example).  There's also the aspect of support buffs vs armor sets in that the numerical values of each don't match and one potentially has access to both.  Should a FF Defender have access to better than Scrapper SR defenses AND a resist toggle later on?  I personally don't think so.  While this is a comic book *inspired* game, it is not a comic book simulator.  This is a game first and a power fantasy comic book character creator second and thus needs to take into account balance considerations and the support ATs are balanced around increasing the potency of a whole team (force multiplier).

 

That being said, considerations on aiding individual sets I wouldn't be against...like if they added +absorb to the FF set, like a periodic +absorb to those within the range of Dispersion Bubble, they could make it cap out on allies at about +15%absorb while capping at 30% absorb for the defender to give it a bit of boosted protection.  Or someone suggested before, a passive ability that just gives the user a small boost to defense/debuffs that's just always on (like 7%) that would be granted upon choosing one of the shields.  That stacked with slotted dispersion bubble and maneuvers gets you around 28% def to all. 

 

In the circumstances where you could cast both ally shields on yourself, a FF defender is at 39% defense to all with only 3 powers (deflection/insulation shield and dispersion bubble).  In context, a Tanker gets 40% defense to melee, ranged and AoE only with 2x as many powers and slots...and the defender can also grant that to allies.

[SwitchFade]

/jsorrynovote

[WumpusRat]

The only way I could see this being remotely balanced is if the self-cast version is drastically weaker than the ally-targeting version.

 

The main reason being that some buffs would break the game at low/mid levels if you allowed them to be cast on yourself. Sure, it wouldn't make Defenders suddenly "OP", but consider that a FF Defender could, at level TWELVE, be soft-capped to all positional damage. Or other sets, such as Thermal, Pain, Empathy, etc having in essence the same bonus that some of the defensive sets get (the clicky status protection), but without any need to invest anything into it. It would be perma right out of the box (90s duration, and essentially zero recharge). 

 

My concern would be that it would kind of render Sentinels completely pointless. If a Defender can pick a resist/defense set and have just as much protection as a Sentinel, AND be far more useful in groups, where does that leave the Sentinel AT? 

[Primantis]

7 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

The only way I could see this being remotely balanced is if the self-cast version is drastically weaker than the ally-targeting version.

 

The main reason being that some buffs would break the game at low/mid levels if you allowed them to be cast on yourself. Sure, it wouldn't make Defenders suddenly "OP", but consider that a FF Defender could, at level TWELVE, be soft-capped to all positional damage. Or other sets, such as Thermal, Pain, Empathy, etc having in essence the same bonus that some of the defensive sets get (the clicky status protection), but without any need to invest anything into it. It would be perma right out of the box (90s duration, and essentially zero recharge). 

 

My concern would be that it would kind of render Sentinels completely pointless. If a Defender can pick a resist/defense set and have just as much protection as a Sentinel, AND be far more useful in groups, where does that leave the Sentinel AT? 

 

 

It would quickly turn Empathy into a very valid Solo Defender, I'll tell you that much!

 

• They could cast AB on themselves, which would then make AB perma, also making hasten perma; pretty much out of the box. So that's essentially a perma 170% Recharge buff, 1000% Regen and endless Endurance!
• Power Boost + Fort = 35-37%ish Defense to all, along with huge +to-hit and hefty +dmg!
• CM would counter those pesky mezzers!
• Last, but certainly not least,  Absorb Pain would cause an infinite loop and crash the servers! *The ultimate power*!

[Replacement]

Step 1: set the group bubbles to grant self a separate version of the buff in question to self (this means you still need to find something to cast it on).  This separate buff will be probably half strength.

 

Step 2: wait a year and see where we sit.

[FrauleinMental]

Kinetics:  Speed Boost and/or Siphon Speed.  (Kin already buys a self-only version with Siphon Speed, though it stacks with Speed Boost cast by others.)  Also Increase Density.