What's the best Primary/secondary...For Me?

[Sulhythal]

 

Yes, I know that "best" is subjective, but I've tried several different controllers and none have really clicked so I thought I'd see what other people might suggest.

 

First, a long time ago even on Live I had an Ice/kin I dearly loved, but then I kinda retired him after a nerf to Ice Slick, where it felt like it was doing knockdown about the same as Freezing Rain does now.  In seeing other people use it, it doesn't seem that bad, so I don't know if my memory was faulty or if it's been tweaked since that first nerf.  But I loved being able to completely shut down a spawn with it.

 

However, I wouldn't mind something that can deal damage a bit faster and/or doesn't take quite so long to mature.  which I realize is kind of odd to say about controllers. 

 

But, things I like:  Being able to completely shut down one, or two(or more!) in an emergency/ambush/accidental pull situation.

Being able to solo when needed with reasonable speed, though I mainly play defenders so "reasonable speed" would probably look different from someone that mainly plays scrappers, for example.  Being able to add to the team(no brainer, I imagine most controllers have this in the bag by default, but just throwing it in for completion's sake)

 

Things I don't want:  Storm.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE storm.  However, I have a Storm Defender, and a Storm Mastermind I'm running right now, and I'm getting tired of managing the End Bar more than the enemies.  However, if the best option is still Storm, feel free to suggest it. 

 

Also on the don't want:  Empathy and Pain.  Nothing against those two sets, I just don't enjoy playing them, even at high levels with their amazing buffs. 

 

 

Anyone have thoughts and suggestions?

 

[Without_Pause]

Dark/dark. Enough controls and debuffs to easily help out a team and enough pets to help solo the build as well. If you played the defender version, it won't feel completely new, but there is enough differences here I rolled one as well. Early returns have been good, and one person made a comment how things were smoother once I got on a team.

[plewto]

Illusion/Kinetic

 

It's been years since I played one but they could solo and put up some decent damage. With some nice utility and a variety of controls (Single/Group).

[Zumberge]

So in a nutshell:

 

• Solo capabilities
  
• Early bloomer
  
• Panic buttons
  
• No Storm, Emp, or Pain
  

 

(Also right out of the gate if anyone else in the know sees something and thinks I'm blowing smoke, point it out.  I like to learn.)

 

I'm gonna interpret being able to solo as being able to deal damage, which... Controllers aren't really known for, Fire/Kins aside.  Though there's exceptions: Illusion Control's first two powers - Spectral Wounds and Blind - deal psionic damage about on par with most of the first two powers in Defender secondaries, with the latter being a hold and having an AoE sleep that will probably catch nearby minions.  Couple that with a single-target confuse at level 2 and you can reasonably expect to survive solo spawns early on.  Illusion gets its AoE hold at level 6, which is great, but the next two powers are stealth related so you're kind of plateauing with regards to threat control.  If you're willing to wait it out until levels 18 and 26, though, you get the ability to summon three basically invincible aggro magnets and a stationary screaming ghost illusion that fears nearby enemies.  The latter (Spectral Terror) lasts 45 seconds and recharges in the same, so if anyone shows up late to the party they're probably gonna get tagged by it.  The capstone pet flies around, tosses out energy blasts with knockdown, and summons additional illusory copies of itself to draw aggro.  tl;dr: You can solo pretty good out of the gate, but Illusion is more proactive rather than reactive compared to other primaries.

 

Gravity Control... ohh boy, Gravity Control.  This set's had a history, and someone who's experienced it first-hand can probably tell you more.  As it stands though it has two fairly damaging attacks in Lift and Propel, both of which cause knockdown/back and both of which deal more damage against targets hit by the set's hold, Gravity Distortion.  There's also the standard AoE immobilize and hold, a pet, and two powers which will probably confuse most people you team with.  One is Dimension Shift, at level 12, which is a toggle that immobilizes all enemies in a targeted AoE for up to 20 seconds, at which point the toggle drops and goes on recharge which, okay, immobs are pretty good.  But while it's active, they can't attack you unless you or your teammates enter the AoE, making it effectively a time out button.  The other is Wormhole at 26, which lets you target enemies in an AoE and teleport them somewhere else for knockdown and stun, and yes, you can teleport them over cliffs.  This rarely comes up, though, so it's mostly just a stun with flavor.  tl;dr: The most shooty of Controller primaries with some neat tools but you might need to explain what you're doing first.

 

Finally, Mind Control has an attack in Levitate and some Psionic damage in Dominate, its single-target hold, and Confuse at level 6, so it's a bit like Illusion.  As things progress you get an AoE sleep, hold, fear, and confuse, in that order, so it's a pretty good kit.  Between the sleep and the hold, at level 12, you get Telekinesis, which is an endurance-sucking toggle that holds the target and any nearby enemies and slowly pushes it away from you.  It's very strange; I had a Mind Controller and I still can't tell you how to use it properly.  Properly slotted and kitted you're always going to have something to handle unexpected threats, though for general purpose teaming you're going to be using the AoE fear since the confuse is on a four-minute cooldown for some silly reason. tl;dr: The Swiss Army Knife of control, but damage is lacking compared to the other two.

 

Secondaries, kind of focusing on stuff that would be beneficial to a solo player... I'll give it a crack:

 

Darkness Affinity: Early heal that can heal yourself, early -res, good debuffs, a rez that can target multiple teammates, an AoE intangibility for more control.

 

Kinetics: Early heal, +recharge and +DMG buffs, late +end, has literally never been bad, everyone will love you if you have Speed Boost.

 

Poison: Many early debuffs for hard targets when soloing, a single-target hold because who doesn't love stacking holds?  Maybe too close to Emp with the rez, single-target heal, and mez cure.

 

Radiation Emission: More early debuffs but in toggle form, an early heal, a +DMG +recharge +recover buff in Accelerate Metabolism, has also never been bad.

 

Sonic Resonance: -res, a bubble that gives resistance and mez resistance, a single-target intangible, more team-oriented but there's a few powers that could benefit a solo player.

 

Whoof.

[Sulhythal]

 

 

I'm gonna interpret being able to solo as being able to deal damage, which... Controllers aren't really known for, Fire/Kins aside.

 

Only one minor thing here is that I don't require high damage, High damage would be -nice- but all I really want is more damage than ice control has without kinetics backing it up.  Or something else that makes up for the lower damage.  I do plan on teaming whenever possible which is why damage isn't critical. 

 

Thank you for everyone that's responded thus far!

[Riverdusk]

Since no one else has suggested it I'm going to say plant.  No one can lock down a spawn as early, often, and effectively as plant.  Seeds of confusion is available at level 8 with a huge cone and a 1 minute recharge that effectively neuters a mob.  Then later you get a usual AoE hold and then carrion creepers that allow you to lock down twice more.  All three can safely take an alpha strike for a team (although some minor stealth would be suggested).  Carrion creepers are also where you get some nice damage (and AoE damage even).  Also of note, Plant for whatever reason has its AoE immobilize power deal twice as much damage as most other control sets.  Last, the pet is decent.

 

Other sets can start to catch up to plant's control later, but early on it saves those lowbie teams from themselves. 

 

Honestly any secondary can work.  I tend to go rad for the extra damage/recharge/-regen/-defense/-tohit/+recovery/status resistance.  You know, all the awesome things rad offers.

 

The funny thing is I got both a plant/rad controller and a plant/ice dom to 50 during live and ended up not even noticing much killing speed difference between them.  Plant does so well on its own.

 

Edit:  Forgot, if you go rad you also get EM Pulse which is yet another AoE hold you can use to shut down the mobs.

[Burnt Toast]

Earth.... that's all I will say (not really). Earth control is my absolute favorite control set. There is only two powers I avoid (The tier 1 immobilize and Salt Crystals). I see you like ice slick.. well Earthquake is just as good and has a nice -10% defense and -tohit on the bad guys. Then of course you have Quicksand which aside from slowing baddies also makes it so they cannot jump away...fly and also has a -25% defense added to them. Then you have a nice aoe hold which I use as my panic button in volcanic gases... another patch aoe that I lay down if the battle goes on too long and stalagmites hasn't recharged yet or as an addition to stalagmites to lock down even more in a group. Your pet is a lil tanker made of stone who in my opinion isn't as dumb as fire imps :)

 

My main character on live...and here... is an Earth/Kin Controller. Once you get fulcrum shift you can cause quite a bit of damage. I chose stone mastery as my epic for the defensive shield, the targeted aoe, and the +max hp powers. If you are not a fan of /kin I would suggest /rad and then you could really debuff and control enemies which would be useful on any team or TF.

 

[Without_Pause]

Earth.... that's all I will say (not really).

 

They are looking for damage, and while I absolutely loved my Earth/storm(maybe Top 3 or Top 5 from my list of 40+) and she was a control beast, damage is only something which really starts to happen 40+.

[Shirokiel]

You can supplement the low single-target dmg sets really nicely with the attack from the sorcery pool "Arcane Bolt". It benefits from containment and can be slotted for dmg.

[Erydanus]

Illusion Control's first two powers - Spectral Wounds and Blind - deal psionic damage

 

deal exactly about the same baseline damage as every other controller primary's single target hold and immobilize (except fire's which actually do deal a smidgen more) once you factor in the healback; though they are psionic so there's a chance they may not be resisted. (Since Clockwork are vulnerable to psi you can pretty much 1-shot under level 5 Clockwork.)  More specifically, Spectral Wounds is front loaded and then heals back dropping its damage to match other powers - but if you kill something fast enough you get that extra bit of damage. So in a sense it is still superior to something like Stone Prison which is a DoT.

 

Gravity Control...

 

Apparently Gravity Control wasn't badass enough and they gave a buff to Lift that gives it bonus damage on top of containment on targets that are held with Gravity Distortion. *makes an O face* Well all right then. So you have standard single target hold and immobilize that do the basic damage expected of all controllers and then you have lift doing about 1 1/2 times that and Propel doing about 2 1/4 x that.

 

Finally, Mind Control has an attack in Levitate and some Psionic damage in Dominate, its single-target hold, and Confuse at level 6, so it's a bit like Illusion.

but don't overlook Mesmerize it's first power as a sleep with typical controller damage. Knock things out, shoot them in the air; profit!

 

Let me talk a little bit about the viability of Darkness as a Controller soloing primary. You have the typical single target hold and immobilize, and you get a single target confuse at level 6. This lets you easily cycle through three mobs at a time. Level 8 gives you one of the most potent aoe controls in any control set: Fearsome Stare. If you do end up fighting more than 3 foes you can easily make them all cower in fear and if they manage to attack anyway they get a fantastic tohit debuff of -15%. The rest of the tools are rock solid, and level 18 gives you a shadowy alternative to Phantom Army in the form of 2 well-behaved shadows who can do darkness brawl attacks and have taunts to keep the attention of whatever problem foe you sic them on. They only last about a minute but they're pretty darn handy.

 

Additionally when it comes to soloing the thing you need most, especially at teens-twenties levels is usually an extra attack. Sorcery/Arcane Bolt is fantastic and does about 1 1/2 times the damage of a basic single target hold. It also has a chance of knockdown, so it has mitigation as well.

 

The secondary selection is also important, not only for what it gives you as a soloer - as in buffs that affect you and debuffs you can exploit - but also the synergy you can create with the set.  Grav/Rad is a hellish combination with so many tools including killing foes damage resistance. But lately I've been playing dark/dark and again, Dark Miasma has literally never been bad. It is however a little less well understood I'm seeing, especially as a Controller secondary. So I'll give you some high points.

 

- single target aoe heal centered on you, packs a hidden -50% regen debuff as well as a -5% tohit debuff and a -10% damage debuff. If you ever play with a Dark Miasma character and they have Twilgiht Grasp on autofire it's not for the heal.

 

- Tar Patch, GTAOE damage resistance field, -30%. Death patch, area effect fear or immobilize: profit.

 

-Darkest Night - if you can't control the foe, surround them in darkness so they can't hit you. -15% tohit and -30% damage. I soloed the Skull elite boss Veles on a Dark/Dark controller because I put this anchor on him and he stopped doing damage to me and then I chipped away at him. Also I confused his minion and she shot him the face but it was mostly me.

 

-Howling Twilight - this is an area effect autohitting mag 2 stun and mag 3 fear which also applies a -500% regen debuff, making it on a par with Radiation's Lingering Radiation except it's autohit. Both powers also have a slow and -recharge effect. Extra bonus: Howling Twilight also does a full life resurrection on your team! It does have a longer downtime than LR but you can surely kill that AV in just 30 seconds right?

 

Then you get some typical buffs and self heals, the niche and skippable Black Hole, and finally a mini-me pet in Dark Servant.

 

It's a good thing I'm already playing a Dark/Dark or I'd have to go roll one now.

[Erratic1]

Wormholes frequency of use depends on the group you're with. I have found memories of pulling things into corners with Wormhole for mass AoE spam. There us also great joy in dropping things into a corner guarded by Singularity.

[Riverdusk]

Illusion Control's first two powers - Spectral Wounds and Blind - deal psionic damage

 

deal exactly about the same baseline damage as every other controller primary's single target hold and immobilize (except fire's which actually do deal a smidgen more) once you factor in the healback; though they are psionic so there's a chance they may not be resisted. (Since Clockwork are vulnerable to psi you can pretty much 1-shot under level 5 Clockwork.)  More specifically, Spectral Wounds is front loaded and then heals back dropping its damage to match other powers - but if you kill something fast enough you get that extra bit of damage. So in a sense it is still superior to something like Stone Prison which is a DoT.

 

 

Also to note though, I believe when you enhance the power, the healback portion doesn't increase.  So, as the power's damage is increased through enhancements, the healback becomes less and less of an issue even if it does trigger as it is a smaller and smaller % of the damage you are doing.

[Erydanus]

Now that you say that .... that does sound correct!

[Sulhythal]

Thank you everyone!  I'm probably going to try many of these suggestions. 

 

Starting off with a Plant/Rad.  I think Earth is next...Earth/Nature perhaps?  And then Dark/Dark. 

 

Now that I've got a 50 MM I should be able to fund more fun projects

[KittyEmpress]

My illusion/kin is very strong at soloing. I can one shot many minions, and lock down groups with blind.

[Marshal_General]

I am looking at making a grav controller.

 

The secondaries I am looking at are dark and radiation. Which one works best with gravity?