Staff Redraw?

[agent0013]

I would have bet a paycheck that Staff Fighting had a "No Redraw" option.  Am I crazy or was it removed?

[Twisted Toon]

My Staff/SR scrapper doesn't need to redraw after tossing a knife (Natural Origin power) at a foe.

But, I've noticed that I've had to after some of my SR clicky powers fire off on occasion.

And definitely after Sands of Mu fires off.

 

But then, the same thing happens for some of my other characters that have sets with no redraw selected. (I'm looking at you Dual Pistols)

 

[Peacemoon]

4 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

My Staff/SR scrapper doesn't need to redraw after tossing a knife (Natural Origin power) at a foe.

 

 

Oh the low level origin powers never cause redraw. You can use them with your weapons still in your hand, like brawl.

 

I’ve always wondered why they do that but other powers can’t. It doesn’t make sense, because I’m sure most gun/sword/stick heroes would be able to do all their powers with their weapons in their hands. Luckily we have no redraw now (I wasn’t aware of issues with staff), but in a perfect world I’d go further and not have the weapons disappear at all when you activate your other powers (maybe with a few exceptions).

[tricon]

I don't see a "No Redraw" option with my Staff/Rad stalker and yes it will redraw the weapon after useing the click Rad powers.

However with stealth from hide and the other fx from the Rad toggles you hardly see the char or weapon at all. So you don't miss it that much 😉 

[THEDarkTyger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't someone do tests timing weapon powers and found that the redraw doesn't actually affect activation time at all? The animation takes longer, but the power actually hits in the same amount of time?

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't someone do tests timing weapon powers and found that the redraw doesn't actually affect activation time at all? The animation takes longer, but the power actually hits in the same amount of time?

 

That's how it should work, if the design philosophy set down by BAB was followed.  He normalized the animation and activation times of almost all existing weapon-based powers in Issue 11 (meaning, manually went through each animation, checked it against the power's activation time and trimmed frames or removed the draw animation where necessary so the two times were the same), and his intent was for all new weapon-based powers to use the same time for animation and activation from that point onward.

[Twisted Toon]

9 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

 

Oh the low level origin powers never cause redraw. You can use them with your weapons still in your hand, like brawl.

 

I’ve always wondered why they do that but other powers can’t. It doesn’t make sense, because I’m sure most gun/sword/stick heroes would be able to do all their powers with their weapons in their hands. Luckily we have no redraw now (I wasn’t aware of issues with staff), but in a perfect world I’d go further and not have the weapons disappear at all when you activate your other powers (maybe with a few exceptions).

I don't really see using Shadow-maul while holding a 6' lead pipe all that feasible or immersive.

I know, you did say "(maybe with a few exceptions)"

I would say that probably half of the powers you could use in addition to the Staff power-set (or any weapon power-set for that matter) would run into the same issues.

[Crysis]

Careful what you wish for lest you end up with invisible staff animations just like the invisible Katana once the no redraw option was added.

[Silverado]

On 5/31/2020 at 2:43 PM, Luminara said:

 

That's how it should work, if the design philosophy set down by BAB was followed. 

Does this imply that it isn't?

[Luminara]

28 minutes ago, Silverado said:

Does this imply that it isn't?

 

Possibly.  BAB was laid off 18 months before Staff Fighting was released.  It's unlikely that he worked on it all, given the time frame.  The design elements and approach, therefore, would've been determined by his replacement, and whether that person followed the existing standard (synchronous animation/activation times) is something I neither know nor can test.

[JnEricsonx]

My TW/WP brute has Laser eyes, and that for some reason makes me put away my sword.   I mean...I have to put away my sword because I'm giving someone a Care Bears Stare?

[Twisted Toon]

14 hours ago, JnEricsonx said:

My TW/WP brute has Laser eyes, and that for some reason makes me put away my sword.   I mean...I have to put away my sword because I'm giving someone a Care Bears Stare?

The bulky sword interferes with the care bear stare pose.

 

Also, you might catch a deflection from the blade of the sword and hit yourself.

 

It's for your own protection.

[Shred Monkey]

I like how brawl becomes a kick when you're wielding a weapon.  In a perfect world, I'd see alternate animations like this for other attacks so they can be done without putting weapons away.   (Sands of Mu alt-ing into bicycling your feet into an opponent's face would be pretty sweet).  But that'd be a pretty big project for not much gain.

[Luminara]

On 5/31/2020 at 5:33 AM, Peacemoon said:

I’ve always wondered why they do that but other powers can’t. It doesn’t make sense,

 

BAB posted about that once.  He said each powerset had to be animated individually for each character model (small, normal, huge), and each gender.  And every one of those animations had to be adapted for the various movement methods (flight, running, jumping and teleporting).  Brawl was animated separately for every power, model, gender and movement mode, as well.  He didn't say anything about the origin powers, but we can deduce that he copied every Brawl animation and replaced the punch/kick (which uses Kick's animation (Fighting pool)) with the origin power animation, based on the behavior.

 

So one powerset would require more than 350 animations, as he explained it, just to be playable.  Most likely, he made the basic powerset animations on a single model and gender, then copied them to different models and genders and tweaked where necessary (fixing stances, adjusting for clipping, etc) to save time and effort.  The movement modes, Brawl and the origin powers were probably done the same way.

 

As for why some powers force the weapon model to be stowed, any power which is broadly accessible would require thousands of animations to be usable for all weapon-wielding characters without putting away the weapon.  It's just too much work, and it's worth noting that at the time when more weapon powersets were being added, Paragon was understaffed.  BAB could either "fix" all of the temp powers, veteran powers, pool powers and whatever else that didn't allow a weapon animation to remain present (QoL issue), or he could fix bugs and make new powers/powersets.  The latter choice was wiser.

[Doc_Scorpion]

4 minutes ago, Luminara said:

it's worth noting that at the time when more weapon powersets were being added, Paragon was understaffed. 

I don't think there was a time when Paragon wasn't understaffed...  Sometimes more organized and better managed than others, but never really fully staffed.