Super Strength on Scrappers

[Steelmtro]

I just found out that CoH has a new chance at life. I play back when CoH first came out and I've always wanted SS on a scrapper. So is this a thing now, in the works or has it been shot down by the dev?

 

[twozerofoxtrot]

16 minutes ago, Narthull said:

I just found out that CoH has a new chance at life. I play back when CoH first came out and I've always wanted SS on a scrapper. So is this a thing now, in the works or has it been shot down by the dev?

 

 

Neither, as it turns out.

 

I'm still personally holding out hope for this, plus SS where it's really needed: Blasters.

[Super Atom]

20 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

Neither, as it turns out.

 

I'm still personally holding out hope for this, plus SS where it's really needed: Blasters.

 

I forgot entirely about Super Strength not being on blasters. old wounds cut deep 😭

[golstat2003]

On 6/18/2020 at 3:11 PM, Solarverse said:

Not what I meant at all. I was simply using that as a previous example of what can happen when players have open access to powers they want without having to play the AT they don't want. Scrappers for me was such an AT that I did not like, but played one anyway and enjoyed Dark/Dark as a Scrapper because at the time, that was the only way to play that set.

 

I used Red side and how red side became a ghost town after players were allowed to play villains as heroes; as an example to help strengthen my opinion was all. Not that I felt it would push players to play red side.

I am guilty of this as well.  😄

 

Except it's not an accurate example. Villan side was already a ghost town prior to allowing folks to side switch or play villan ATs on heroside.

[Psi-bolt]

On 6/6/2020 at 8:59 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

This has been heavily requested since olden days of yore. Fire scrappers already out damage fire brutes by a small margin. Giving them rage +crits would be a recipe for a power creeping FOTM city of SS scrappers. 

 

I.m not against variety but where does this end? Imagine stalkers with titan weapons. I don't mean to sound like a curmudgeon, but i like the fact that some power sets are limited to certain archetypes. While many see it as stifling. i see it as encouragement to step outside your comfort zone and make something that isn't a brute.

 

The problem with this is that if Rage is broken on Scrappers/Stalkers then it's broken for Tankers/Brutes.  It's broken because SS allows Tankers and Brutes to circumvent the damage ratio they should have over Scrappers and Stalkers.   Now all that said, I actually do think that Rage is broken, even with the crash, so I would like to see SS on Scrappers with BuildUp or some other damage buff.

 

EDIT:  Just realized this is a 3-4 year old post, lol.

Edited February 14, 2024 by Psi-bolt

[Rimerat]

Lots of talking about numbers and mechanics, which is fine and I'm here for it.

 

But I think most people just want SS on Scrappers because they like the aesthetics of the animations.

 

You have to admit, knockout blow and foot stomp on a scrapper would be pretty cool, numbers aside. I'm sure if the team really wanted to, they could implement some sort of design to get SuperStrength over. Not sure it needs to be a high prority though.

[Steelmtro]

20 minutes ago, Wiseguy said:

Lots of talking about numbers and mechanics, which is fine and I'm here for it.

 

But I think most people just want SS on Scrappers because they like the aesthetics of the animations.

 

You have to admit, knockout blow and foot stomp on a scrapper would be pretty cool, numbers aside. I'm sure if the team really wanted to, they could implement some sort of design to get SuperStrength over. Not sure it needs to be a high prority though.

Yes! I just want a good doesn't even need to be the best melee DPS that's not a tank with Super Strangth. I like the feel of knocking bad guys around and the animations are really cool. 

Make rage like a thrown where you just pick the dude up and chunk him or what Hulk does to Loki slamming him into the ground now that would cool

[Parabola]

2 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

SS where it's really needed: Blasters.

Behold The Brutinal:

 

 

Double stacked rage is so strong it almost would work. I wouldn't like to level it though!

 

[taigakirdape]

On 2/14/2024 at 9:09 AM, Parabola said:

Behold The Brutinal:

 

 

Double stacked rage is so strong it almost would work. I wouldn't like to level it though!

 

I must follow this way of battle

[JasperStone]

On 2/14/2024 at 12:09 PM, Parabola said:

Behold The Brutinal:

 

 

Double stacked rage is so strong it almost would work. I wouldn't like to level it though!

 

[ScarySai]

They've went on record saying they'd basically not have rage, or gut it if scrapper SS ever gets ported.

[MisterMittens]

Yeah it makes me sad, scrappers the rage crash would make SS scrappers be glass cannons until full build anyway. I'll be ok with my street justice scrapper though.

[Stormwalker]

So many people keep citing Rage as a reason that Scrappers can't have Super Strength.

 

That's not a reason Scrappers can't have Super Strength.  It might be a reason Scrappers can't have Super Strength as it is currently implemented for Brutes and Tankers, but it's not a reason we can't have the set.  The Scrapper version of the set would just have to be different.

 

See: Energy Melee.  Total Focus crits too large for Scrappers to have?  OK, that's fine, they changed the way TF works for Scrappers.  Guess what?  Energy Melee is still my second-favorite Scrapper primary after Claws.  Does it bother me that our version is different?  No, actually, I like the Scrapper version of it better than the Brute/Tanker version, even, because it feels faster due to the extra Short ET's.

 

If Rage in its current form is broken for Scrappers (and let's be honest, Rage in its current form is broken for everyone.  My SS Tanker hits harder than some of my Scrappers did at her level!) then change it for Scrappers.  Heck, replace it with Build Up and buff the attacks a bit so that it isn't weak (because SS without Rage would be very underpowered).  I'd play it in a heartbeat.  I just want a Super Strength scrapper.  I don't care if the set is exactly the same as it is for Brutes and Tankers or not.  As long as the performance is reasonable, I'm there.  After all, I still play my Kin Melee/WP and Psi Melee/WP scrappers which are pretty much the textbook definition of mediocre performance, so I'm obviously not allergic to non-optimal builds.

 

I just want a Super Strength Scrapper.  That's all.

Edited January 24 by Stormwalker

[ScarySai]

Try a stalker if you haven't yet. Stj on them is really smooth. 

[MisterMittens]

 

11 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Try a stalker if you haven't yet. Stj on them is really smooth. 

 

I honestly don't like the theming of stalkers, I prefer non stealth themed characters.

[MisterMittens]

12 minutes ago, Stormwalker said:

That's not a reason Scrappers can't have Super Strength.  It might be a reason Scrappers can't have Super Strength as it is currently implemented for Brutes and Tankers, but it's not a reason we can't have the set.  The Scrapper version of the set would just have to be different.

 

Completely agree, I'd like to still have rage in some form because I like the risk/reward of it.

[Stormwalker]

3 minutes ago, MisterMittens said:

 

Completely agree, I'd like to still have rage in some form because I like the risk/reward of it.

 

I'm honestly not a fan of Rage because it is OOC for a lot of Super Strength comic book characters.

 

Spider-Man doesn't rage.  Superman doesn't rage.  Hulk, of course, does.  But it's not an intrinsic characteristic of having Super Strength.

 

My SS Tanker wears a powersuit.  "Rage" doesn't change her strength at all.  I justify it in-character by "The booster module, in order to be protected from battle damage, is more insulated than I would like so it overheats after a while and has to shut down briefly to cool off."  In other words, I have to invent a "design flaw" in her suit to justify the mechanic.

[MisterMittens]

3 minutes ago, Stormwalker said:

 

I'm honestly not a fan of Rage because it is OOC for a lot of Super Strength comic book characters.

 

That's a good point, I would say that street justice is a better fit for that archetype in most cases though.

[Xion80]

Nah, Stj fills that role just fine. Besides, I can't think of any thematic heroes with super strength, but frail in the survivability aspect like the scrapper. 

[MisterMittens]

Just now, Xion80 said:

I can't think of any thematic heroes with super strength, but frail in the survivability aspect like the scrapper. 

 

Isn't rage as it currently operates antithetical to that since it directly hurts your ability to survive?

[Xion80]

3 minutes ago, MisterMittens said:

 

Isn't rage as it currently operates antithetical to that since it directly hurts your ability to survive?

That rage crash will break a scrapper. It would be the equivalent of a t9 crash. I've seen it break brutes and tanks in battle.

Edited January 24 by Xion80

[Stormwalker]

1 minute ago, Xion80 said:

Besides, I can't think of any thematic heroes with super strength, but frail in the survivability aspect like the scrapper. 

 

The Metropolis Kid version of Superboy, before they retconned him into being part-Kryptonian, was a Super Strength scrapper.   He was quite a bit less invulnerable than Superman or Supergirl.

 

Spider-Man is Super Strength, and he's not that much tougher than a normal human.  He's just good at avoiding hits or rolling with them using his spectacular agility.

 

The '90's X-Men version of Rogue was pretty much a Super Strength scrapper.  She got knocked around quite a bit more than the other "invulnerable" X-Men like Colossus.

 

That's three off the top of my head.

[MisterMittens]

3 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

That rage crash will break a scrapper. It would be the equivalent of a t9 crash.

Yeah of course, a SS scrapper wouldn't be able to solo very much content as rage currently is. I was just pointing out that even SS as it currently is, isn't desirable for a tank archetype.

 

Characters like hulk are supposed to be more durable than a rage crashed tank or brute are.

Edited January 24 by MisterMittens

[Stormwalker]

9 minutes ago, Xion80 said:

That rage crash will break a scrapper. It would be the equivalent of a t9 crash. I've seen it break brutes and tanks on battle.

 

Considering you'd have to nerf Rage to give it to Scrappers (or at least, that seems to be what most people think), you'd have to nerf the crash, too.

 

That said, a Regenner would just pop MoG and be fine.  A Willpower scrapper would just pop Strength of Will and be fine.  An SR Scrapper could pop Elude and be fine (if they even take Elude, that is; most of my SR scrappers don't), the defense gain would more than offset the defense loss.  Similarly, Energy Aura and Overload.  Of course, that is just postponing the crash, but it should postpone it long enough to end the fight which is all that matters.

 

Dark Armor's Cloak of Fear would help offset it.  Not to mention the to-hit debuff Dark Armor provides.

 

It'd hurt for an Invlun scrapper (I don't suggest Unstoppable here because Unstoppable's crash is way too annoying), for sure, but we have inspirations for that.

 

And if we consider Incarnate powers, Barrier covers a multitude of sins.

Edited January 24 by Stormwalker

[Xion80]

2 minutes ago, Stormwalker said:

 

The Metropolis Kid version of Superboy, before they retconned him into being part-Kryptonian, was a Super Strength scrapper.   He was quite a bit less invulnerable than Superman or Supergirl.

 

Spider-Man is Super Strength, and he's not that much tougher than a normal human.  He's just good at avoiding hits or rolling with them using his spectacular agility.

 

The '90's X-Men version of Rogue was pretty much a Super Strength scrapper.  She got knocked around quite a bit more than the other "invulnerable" X-Men like Colossus.

 

That's three off the top of my head.

Um...no. Anybody compared to a "Kryptonian" in terms of durability is not a scrapper.

 

Let's be honest. When you think of super strength. Spiderman isn't what comes to mind. 10 ton punches won't fold a Hulk, Thor, or Sentry. All who possess 100k punching power. Even with leverage he can pull maybe 25 tons.

 

90's X-Men Rouge was going toe to toe with the Juggernaut! She's a certified brute.

 

Captain America and Wolverine fall into the scrapper realm. They're  skilled in combat, but are not trading blows for to long with 100 ton tanks.