Super Strength on Scrappers

[xl8]

On 6/6/2020 at 1:50 PM, Solarverse said:

I recognize that I am pretty much the only forum poster who feels this way

Nope, completely agree. Stop consolidation and let all archetypes remain unique.

That said, the differences in sets like Dark on trollers and defenders is welcome and a great AT enhancement, with trollers' being a much superior version imo. Could also say the same for sentinels' powers, even if their inherents need merging.

Edited June 15, 2020 by xl8

[TraumaTrain]

I want super strength stalkers.

[BrandX]

On 6/14/2020 at 4:16 PM, xl8 said:

Nope, completely agree. Stop consolidation and let all archetypes remain unique.

That said, the differences in sets like Dark on trollers and defenders is welcome and a great AT enhancement, with trollers' being a much superior version imo. Could also say the same for sentinels' powers, even if their inherents need merging.

ATs are unique in other ways besides power sets, which never should've been stuck on one AT.

 

Hit Points.  Caps.  Starting numbers on power sets  While not part of CoH at start, inherents.

 

I can play the same powersets on Brutes and Scrappers, and I'll still prefer it on Scrapper over a Brute.  Defender and Corrupter?  Corrupter.

 

The remain unique argument feels more like a "I just don't want them to have it" argument or a "I'll only feel unique if only I'm likely to take this combo, because it's just on this one class"

[MisterMittens]

38 minutes ago, BrandX said:

ATs are unique in other ways besides power sets, which never should've been stuck on one AT. 

Super strength also doesn't have to remain exactly the same as it would be on tankers and brutes. Rage could be changed to fit the AT more and there wouldn't have to be a taunt anymore. There could be other differences added as well.

 

They could add it while having the Brute/Tanker variant remaining unique.

 

Of all the powersets to deny Scrappers it's just a strange that it's super strength of all things. Especially since the theme of super strength is attacking recklessly in order to deal more damage through the rage mechanic which is exactly what scrappers love to do. It just seems like a perfect marriage of themes and mechanics that scrapper lovers have been denied from launch.

[MisterMittens]

59 minutes ago, TraumaTrain said:

I want super strength stalkers.

I think that would be cool too but street justice is already perfect for stalkers. Super strength fits the theme of scrappers more. It would be neat though.

[xl8]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

ATs are unique in other ways besides power sets, which never should've been stuck on one AT.

Which is why I made the comparison between Dark trollers and defenders.

[BrandX]

10 hours ago, xl8 said:

Which is why I made the comparison between Dark trollers and defenders.

Yes, but all Super Strength needs, to be ported to Scrappers, is lower +DMG/+ToHit percentages.   Dual Blades and Claws have perma +ToHit/DMG capabilities, so Super Strength Scrappers having it, wouldn't be out of the ordinary.  All they'd have to do, is change the numbers it gives.

 

Also, in response to another post, I would of course think Scrappers would lose Taunt and gain Confront.

[Vanden]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

Yes, but all Super Strength needs, to be ported to Scrappers, is lower +DMG/+ToHit percentages.   Dual Blades and Claws have perma +ToHit/DMG capabilities, so Super Strength Scrappers having it, wouldn't be out of the ordinary.  All they'd have to do, is change the numbers it gives.

Then you’re just straight nerfing the set in the port, since Scrapper scalars for self +Dam are higher than they are for Tankers and Brutes.

[BrandX]

3 hours ago, Vanden said:

Then you’re just straight nerfing the set in the port, since Scrapper scalars for self +Dam are higher than they are for Tankers and Brutes.

I'm going by the idea that Rage numbers as is, would be to high on a Scrapper.  If that's the case, then lower the numbers.  If it doesn't put the set into insane places, then all is good.

 

Though, I'd say nothing is being nerfed until after it's ported.

[Chance Jackson]

3 hours ago, Vanden said:

Then you’re just straight nerfing the set in the port, since Scrapper scalars for self +Dam are higher than they are for Tankers and Brutes.

that would be balanced by not having a rage crash

[Solarverse]

16 hours ago, MisterMittens said:

I think that would be cool too but street justice is already perfect for stalkers. Super strength fits the theme of scrappers more. It would be neat though.

Street Justice is already perfect for Scrappers too. They don't need Super Strength.

[BrandX]

19 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Street Justice is already perfect for Scrappers too. They don't need Super Strength.

Every AT has Street Justice.  No complaints going on there.  Yet, the idea of Super Strength being ported bothers people?

 

Are players afraid people will leave Brutes for Scrappers?  If so, know now, it won't happen.  Brutes have mechanics that people prefer over Scrappers.  One being a taunt aura, which only a few have that, if I recall, if any of them do.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

Every AT has Street Justice.  No complaints going on there. 

Street Justice started off that way. However, I didn't agree with it being that way. I will say this; the OG Devs have made so many mistakes with this game that it's completely broken and unfixable.
 

 

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

Yet, the idea of Super Strength being ported bothers people?

Yes, it does. I will touch up a bit on this after responding to your final statement.

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

 

Are players afraid people will leave Brutes for Scrappers?  If so, know now, it won't happen.  Brutes have mechanics that people prefer over Scrappers.  One being a taunt aura, which only a few have that, if I recall, if any of them do.

Because of the OG Devs' they have made playing Red side completely barren. Villains should have never been able to play as Heroes and vice versa. That idea completely negated the whole point of being a Villain. They should have set up some strict rules to switching sides. Requirement 1, being level 50 and have all Red Side Strike Forces completed. Having all Red side Location Badges, having completed all of the co-op zone missions and and badges associated with those zones. They should have made it a challenge, they should have made it to where if players wanted their villains to be heroes, they would need to work to get there.

 

Instead, what we got was level 1 Stalkers looking for teams in Atlas Park, Brutes completely dominating the Tank (until recently) roles, Corruptors being preferred over Defenders because they do more damage and Red side's population being nothing but a waste land with barely anyone playing there. The population went void in no time flat...and this happened before shut down. So we can't blame the current population of HC for that one.

 

Now, back to your second statement. After saying what I have just stated about the state of red side, we not only have villains playing as heroes, leaving no real incentive for players to play red side, we have went and stirred more chaos in to the pot by pretty much granting every AT the same powers, leaving less of an incentive to play those AT's. For an example; I don't particularly like playing Scrappers. Once upon a time I was unable to play Dark Melee unless I played a Scrapper. Dark Melee was my incentive to play Scrappers. Suddenly, instead of giving Stalkers a new primary set that has not been seen yet, the Devs made the lazy decision to port Dark Melee over to Stalkers. Now I have no reason to play Scrappers again, because there is nothing unique about a Scrapper's powersets. They are the same as a Brute/Stalker and now Tank.

There are very few powersets that are strictly owned by one class...actually, I can only think of one...and that is Illusions. The OG Devs got lazy, instead of creating more unique powersets, they just ported over existing ones. As it stands now, if you want Super Strength you are going to have to play a Brute or a Tank. That is your only options. And now we want to further add to the problem by giving it to Stalkers and Scrappers too.

 

The damage that has been done to this game has already been done. There is no turning back and no fixing it. I for one would not want to see that same kind of mistake repeated with HomeComing.

Thee are my personal reasons that I feel the madness of power porting needs to end...it shouldn't have ever started to begin with IMO.

[TraumaTrain]

When stalkers get Super Strength, I want their Assassin Strike to be called Assassin's Knuckle Sandwich.

[Chance Jackson]

1 hour ago, TraumaTrain said:

When stalkers get Super Strength, I want their Assassin Strike to be called Assassin's Knuckle Sandwich.

What kind of animation do you envision

[BrandX]

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Street Justice started off that way. However, I didn't agree with it being that way. I will say this; the OG Devs have made so many mistakes with this game that it's completely broken and unfixable.
 

 

Yes, it does. I will touch up a bit on this after responding to your final statement.

Because of the OG Devs' they have made playing Red side completely barren. Villains should have never been able to play as Heroes and vice versa. That idea completely negated the whole point of being a Villain. They should have set up some strict rules to switching sides. Requirement 1, being level 50 and have all Red Side Strike Forces completed. Having all Red side Location Badges, having completed all of the co-op zone missions and and badges associated with those zones. They should have made it a challenge, they should have made it to where if players wanted their villains to be heroes, they would need to work to get there.

 

Instead, what we got was level 1 Stalkers looking for teams in Atlas Park, Brutes completely dominating the Tank (until recently) roles, Corruptors being preferred over Defenders because they do more damage and Red side's population being nothing but a waste land with barely anyone playing there. The population went void in no time flat...and this happened before shut down. So we can't blame the current population of HC for that one.

 

Now, back to your second statement. After saying what I have just stated about the state of red side, we not only have villains playing as heroes, leaving no real incentive for players to play red side, we have went and stirred more chaos in to the pot by pretty much granting every AT the same powers, leaving less of an incentive to play those AT's. For an example; I don't particularly like playing Scrappers. Once upon a time I was unable to play Dark Melee unless I played a Scrapper. Dark Melee was my incentive to play Scrappers. Suddenly, instead of giving Stalkers a new primary set that has not been seen yet, the Devs made the lazy decision to port Dark Melee over to Stalkers. Now I have no reason to play Scrappers again, because there is nothing unique about a Scrapper's powersets. They are the same as a Brute/Stalker and now Tank.

There are very few powersets that are strictly owned by one class...actually, I can only think of one...and that is Illusions. The OG Devs got lazy, instead of creating more unique powersets, they just ported over existing ones. As it stands now, if you want Super Strength you are going to have to play a Brute or a Tank. That is your only options. And now we want to further add to the problem by giving it to Stalkers and Scrappers too.

 

The damage that has been done to this game has already been done. There is no turning back and no fixing it. I for one would not want to see that same kind of mistake repeated with HomeComing.

Thee are my personal reasons that I feel the madness of power porting needs to end...it shouldn't have ever started to begin with IMO.

 

So, really, what you're not liking, is people preferring to be a hero over being a villain.

 

Because, as HC shows, people could've easily flocked to red side from the start.  There was no, "Well, I have all these heroes already.  So, no point in playing villain."

 

And that porting wasn't laziness, that's what people wanted.  Some people don't want to play a tank.  Any set a Brute has, there's no reason I Scrapper shouldn't have had.  They picked a lot of sets for no other reason than "We're going to limit people."

 

Why wouldn't a Brute have Regen for instance?  That was a set a Brute did not have at start and it's very much a set that fits with the concept.

 

 

[Solarverse]

55 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

So, really, what you're not liking, is people preferring to be a hero over being a villain.

 

Because, as HC shows, people could've easily flocked to red side from the start.  There was no, "Well, I have all these heroes already.  So, no point in playing villain."

 

And that porting wasn't laziness, that's what people wanted.  Some people don't want to play a tank.  Any set a Brute has, there's no reason I Scrapper shouldn't have had.  They picked a lot of sets for no other reason than "We're going to limit people."

 

Why wouldn't a Brute have Regen for instance?  That was a set a Brute did not have at start and it's very much a set that fits with the concept.

 

 

We each have our opinions, I was just giving mine. Trust me, I know I am the minority in my thoughts...but they still remain my thoughts.  🙂

[MunkiLord]

31 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

We each have our opinions, I was just giving mine. Trust me, I know I am the minority in my thoughts...but they still remain my thoughts.  🙂

I have a compromise! Scrappers don't get Super Strength and instead get Stone Melee. It's a win-win!

[BrandX]

14 hours ago, Solarverse said:

We each have our opinions, I was just giving mine. Trust me, I know I am the minority in my thoughts...but they still remain my thoughts.  🙂

 

I do get that.  However, your opinion seems to be based on the idea of, if we limit choices, maybe more would go red side.  However, as we can see from the start of the HC server, and I'd wager all the other servers out there, heroes are more popular, so it wouldn't help get more villains, just less choices for concepts.

 

Now mind you, I can put my concept generally into any spec that will give the power set combo I want.  I may have a Brute AT, but it'll still act like a Scrapper style concept.  ATs are just more of the meta...which way do I like the meta.  Me.  I like the criticals over fury building.  I don't even care about a taunt aura.  😛

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I do get that.  However, your opinion seems to be based on the idea of, if we limit choices, maybe more would go red side.  However, as we can see from the start of the HC server, and I'd wager all the other servers out there, heroes are more popular, so it wouldn't help get more villains, just less choices for concepts.

Not what I meant at all. I was simply using that as a previous example of what can happen when players have open access to powers they want without having to play the AT they don't want. Scrappers for me was such an AT that I did not like, but played one anyway and enjoyed Dark/Dark as a Scrapper because at the time, that was the only way to play that set.

 

I used Red side and how red side became a ghost town after players were allowed to play villains as heroes; as an example to help strengthen my opinion was all. Not that I felt it would push players to play red side.

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Now mind you, I can put my concept generally into any spec that will give the power set combo I want.  I may have a Brute AT, but it'll still act like a Scrapper style concept.  ATs are just more of the meta...which way do I like the meta.  Me.  I like the criticals over fury building.  I don't even care about a taunt aura.  😛

I am guilty of this as well.  😄

[BrandX]

11 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Not what I meant at all. I was simply using that as a previous example of what can happen when players have open access to powers they want without having to play the AT they don't want. Scrappers for me was such an AT that I did not like, but played one anyway and enjoyed Dark/Dark as a Scrapper because at the time, that was the only way to play that set.

 

I used Red side and how red side became a ghost town after players were allowed to play villains as heroes; as an example to help strengthen my opinion was all. Not that I felt it would push players to play red side.

I am guilty of this as well.  😄

 

For that, I feel altitis will win out and people will end up at least TRYING the ATs.  Not to mention the "Want to have 1 of every AT"

 

I enjoy my Elec/Storm, but let's be honest, I likely wouldn't have played Troller, if I didn't want one of every AT, and I know I'm not the only one out there. 😛

[Galaxy Brain]

On this note, I would much prefer if each AT that shared a powerset was treated more like Stalkers and Dark Blast where each AT has their own version of the set in question.

 

Corruptor Dark Blast =!= Defender =!= Blaster =!= Sentinel, etc. Instead of playing the same Elec Blast on each AT (sans Sentinels... but even they have similar power structure with tweaked stats for this set), why not mix it up a bit where each elec blast differs between ATs beyond just the AT scales?

[MisterMittens]

7 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

On this note, I would much prefer if each AT that shared a powerset was treated more like Stalkers and Dark Blast where each AT has their own version of the set in question.

 

Corruptor Dark Blast =!= Defender =!= Blaster =!= Sentinel, etc. Instead of playing the same Elec Blast on each AT (sans Sentinels... but even they have similar power structure with tweaked stats for this set), why not mix it up a bit where each elec blast differs between ATs beyond just the AT scales?

Also each powerset could be tweaked to each AT's strengths this way so no powerset is considered garbo for one AT but perfect for another. This is definitely the ideal solution but it would require a crazy amount of work and likely new animations.

[Galaxy Brain]

5 minutes ago, MisterMittens said:

Also each powerset could be tweaked to each AT's strengths this way so no powerset is considered garbo for one AT but perfect for another. This is definitely the ideal solution but it would require a crazy amount of work and likely new animations.

I dont think it would require new animations nor a "Crazy" amount of work. Something as minor as 2 powers being different per set + some altered stats can go a very long way 🙂 

[killigraphy]

On 6/6/2020 at 1:41 PM, Solarverse said:

Apparently once again I am just the opposite as the rest of the community, but I for one would HATE to see SS on Scrappers. I should have suggested this first so the community can disagree with me, lol.

 

SS high five son!

 

You're a good egg....a good knockout blow of an egg.