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Fire/MA: the Brunker, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

Sovera

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Sovera

Sovera

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After looking at Stone Melee I finally conceded that the problem with its ST rotation was trying to only use the mallets. It makes leveling a chore, it makes the ST clunky, and even at end game it requires everything in place plus an FF proc to be gapless.

 

Once I accepted this I also saw that, y'know what? Actually Stone Fists isn't bad all.

 

I cranked up another Fire/Stone Melee, used an alt to do two passes in a farm map which placed it at level 23 and then went for Posi 1 cranked to 0x8 after having grabbed eight hours worth of amplifiers.

 

The ST rotation was Heavy Mallet, Stone Fists, Stone Mallet, Stone Fists. Repeat. While Hasten was up and even at such an extreme exemplaring the rotation was already gapless and a pleasure to work with.


 

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Burn was a good help as usual and the sole AoE since Fault is... well.. it's crummy. and a bit of a noob trap IMO. Large recharge, heavy endurance costs, abysmal accuracy, low damage, weak CC (when the accuracy even allows it to hit). Burn was enough for my AoE needs and with Build-Up I could punch through CoT BS while the FF procs in the mallets helped things along.

 

Only used the inspirations that dropped and did not replenish at the store or AH. Only one death... at the very end... last spawn after the shadow bosses... I was already banking on bragging rights for a deathless run but after surviving eight shadow clone bosses I was out of inspirations and a mix of -tohit aura + force field + earthquake + spammed immobilizes finally got me.

 

Still not bad for a 'squishy Fire Armor' and done in 46 minutes. Also the non weapon aesthetic looks nice with a very brawler feel to it.

 

 

The usual with my builds: 76.7% resists with one stack of the Tanker proc in Heavy Mallet, a second stack and it's 83.4%, Barrier's 5% and it's 88.4% and once at 90% HP the Scaling Resists IO in Hover pushes it to 89.4%.

 

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If desired I can post a leveling build.

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Pzn

Pzn

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Posted (edited)
  On 6/6/2022 at 3:07 PM, Sovera said:

After looking at Stone Melee I finally conceded that the problem with its ST rotation was trying to only use the mallets. It makes leveling a chore, it makes the ST clunky, and even at end game it requires everything in place plus an FF proc to be gapless.

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I had the same epiphany, especially with tanks since stone fists is an automatic pick.  That wasted power pick was really detrimental with a chain that didn't need both.

Edited by Pzn
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Sovera

Sovera

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Used the Fire/Stone Melee build and soloed Posi 2 at 0x8 in 48 minutes, no deaths. Then did Yin, and, surprisingly, did not use inspirations until having reached Clamor. I say surprisingly because I had an unslotted heal, unslotted shields, unslotted Consume, but even so it was done in 48 minutes (again). Still deathless.

 

...which is not really bad at all considering it's a Tanker and its ST heavy hitter is over level 38. Previous attempt was 46 minutes.

 

The recordist in these 'Yin challenges' is still the Claws/Fire Brute at 38 minutes followed by a Fire/Rad Melee Tanker with 39 minutes and honorable mentions to the Savage/Stone and Rad/Stone Brute at 42 and 43 respectively.

 

Rad Melee is just brutal even without Burn and Fiery Embrace and this is not even counting on how most of its damage is energy/toxic instead of smash/slash.

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

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Posted (edited)
  On 6/9/2020 at 1:36 PM, Sovera said:

Previously known as Fire/Claws: the Brunker. Alas Claws, I knew thee well, but your time on the throne has ended.

 

What is the idea behind a Brunker?

 

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While I had my toughest tank in the Rad Armor/MA that I posted previously the damage was never exciting (plus the use of lightning was not very thematic). @Camel's funny guide revitalized my interest in Fire Armor and I went back to poke at it some more.

 

I had been in a rut looking for a damage character to sink my teeth into but something never quite clicked as the moment I went into anything a bit more extreme the squishyness was felt. Sure, Council is never a problem but there is more to CoH than Council.

 

Now I am pleased I can tank *and* have a nice damage dealing character with how this turned out.

 

 

I am going to divide this multiple parts because after testing pretty much all possible combinations three have come out on top:

 

Fire/Ice Melee: the all rounder.

- Pros: This has become my favorite and my recommendation for a new player. Unlike the Martial Arts variant it works at near full potential right out of the box. The damage is good and the build has a very nice power progression. We get a good AoE at level 4 that usually makes me crank up spawn size to 4-5 that instant, we get Build-Up at level 16, then Burn at 18, then the ultimate protection skill at 20 in Ice Patch. At 26 we get our second Build-Up in Fiery Embrace, and at 28 we get the heavy hitting Freezing Touch. Everything afterwards is just padding. It is common to just destroy whole groups of enemies with Build-up + Frost + Burn leaving only nearly dead lieutenants and an half HP boss.

The best part is that in the very early levels before our defenses are consolidated we can start a fight by dropping Ice Patch and just watch the enemies come running and start flopping. This makes us and our team safe. By level 30+ Ice Patch is no longer required but depending on the enemy and if it does nasty debuffs (I.E. Circle of Thorns) then dropping it in the middle of a spawn will add a nice fat layer of extra security.

Lets face it, 90% of the game is pretty easy and does not require more than the baseline Tanker sturdyness. But when things get dire then Ice Patch can be whipped out and turn certain loss into wins.

- Downsides: no Force Feedback anywhere to accelerate the build. The single target is not amazing either since it relies on using Frost for the single target duration. That said the testing of the damage is done on a neutral target that has the same resistance to all types of damage. In the 'real world' both Claws and Martial Arts do a type of damage (Slash and Smash respectively) that is commonly resisted, sometimes heavily so. This is not the case of Ice who is a much more exotic type of damage. That means ultimately we may not notice this damage difference since Claws/Martial Arts may be pushing through 20% or more damage resistance the moment they fight robots or such.

Ice Patch is not a magic bullet for survival either. Enemies will flop but not all and not all the time so they will still attack. This is compounded by Freezing Touch applying a -1000% KB effect that effectively prevents Ice Patch from working (very annoying against Paragon Protectors we are trying to prevent from triggering their Moment of glory).

Attributing my subjective opinion I would say Ice Patch adds something like an extra 30-40% protection but in no way makes a character invulnerable. What makes a character 'invulnerable' is a combination of defensive layers and killing fast which is something this build achieves.

 

 

Fire/Martial Arts: the Turtle.

- Pros: It ends with 45% defense to Melee/Ranged/AoE. This makes it pretty defensive since it will deflect debuffing attacks, even Psi which is a weakness of Fire Armor. The damage from Dragon Tail is anemic but it animates fast and the Force Feedback forces more recharge which pumps more Burns, more Focus Chi, more Healing Flames, more Consumes. Substituting Crippling Axe Kick for Cobra Strike is a minor damage loss and in return the build has a complete AoE and single target chain before level 20. This is the defensive version difficult to beat.

- Downside: it lacks an early Build-Up (Focus Chi) which prevents it from punching through early level BS such as -defense or -ToHit debuffing, but level 28 isn't that far. It also lacks an early AoE only obtaining one at level 18 and then 20. If soloing this means there is no point in increasing spawn size since they all need to be taken down one by one anyway.

The build is a gimmicky carefully built castle of cards. That means that for the end-game it may well be the best of all three not lagging behind in the damage in the slightest but also the strongest defensively. But it means it wants a lot of slots and thus it will bloom late (but still exemplar extremely well, it just needs those slots in place). With its strongest point being capped defense it asks at least level 45 to get this, or 39 (if exemplared) for 40% defense. This isn't as bad as all that since the baseline is still a Tanker but someone leveling it for the first time may not understand the enthusiasm.

 

 

Fire/Claws: the Dragon.

- Pros: This is a nice no brainer build. Spin is obtained at level 16 and due to some wacky maths it does twice the damage of any other AoE from other attack sets. Even those obtained at level 35-38 (slight hyperbole but not by far. Atom Smasher, for example, does 233 in one of my builds. In this build Spin does 341. Not quite double, uh? But wait, because of Follow-Up the build is near permanently under a 70% damage boost. So that's 430). Spin is just that good.

It also has a very solid and fast single target rotation and two places for Force Feedback slots to speed up the build. Follow-Up ensures we go around with at least two stacks of it boosting near permanently the damage of everything by 70%. Considering Build-Up increases damage by 80% for only 10 seconds and then has a recharge of 30 seconds then it is easy to see why Follow-Up is so well received. This is the offense oriented build.

- Cons: it lacks a punch-through-BS button. Follow-Up is great since we commonly run around with 70% damage boost but what's better than 70%? 160% damage. Normal Build-Ups can trigger the Gaussian proc and (nearly) ensure it goes off whenever used. When fighting problematic enemies it's best to drop a 160% damage empowered Burn and start slapping the debuffing enemies fast before they crumble our defense. Follow-Up also suffers from having to hit an enemy to provide the buff which can go wrong if we are being debuffed already.

 

 

The Fire/Martial Arts build is in this post. The Fire/Claws is here. The Fire/Ice is here.

 

 

 

Martial Arts boasts of Storm Kick giving 10% to all defense for 13 seconds. Even very early in the leveling career we can have as much as 25% defense. Martial Arts also has two places to slot Force Feedback +recharge procs turning the build into something turbo charged straight out of a random Fast and Furious movie. One of them in Dragon Tail which helps as low as Positron part one. Dragon Tail also provides valuable soft CC by applying a reliable knockdown. Time spent falling on their back and getting back up is time not spent hitting back. Then it merges with Fire Armor's Burn - also available as low as Positron part one - that works for both single target damage as well as AoE, plus the offensive bent of a damage aura and Fiery Embrace.

 

 

Upsides:

- DAMAGE!  Leveling with the character is pure carnage and I felt *very* powerful during the whole trip. Burn followed by Dragon Tail not just hurts enemies but puts them on their back nullifying the alpha and all with a nice wide AoE radius. Later on Fiery Embrace increases this even more where even Martial Arts being smashing damage shows the improvement with chunks taken off bosses with every hit.

- Very good exemplaring. Storm Kick + Dragon Tail + Burn is available straight from Positron part 1 with only Crippling Axe Kick needing to be replaced for Thunder Kick until level 30 (if exemplared). Or simply replace Crippling Axe Kick for Cobra Strike for a pretty minor damage dip. CAK is still better is wanting to hit pylons since it has a -res proc that can be slotted in.

- Pretty damn sturdy with 90% resists (with ATO stacks + Barrier) and 45% to Melee, Ranged and AoE, and 50% to melee (with Barrier).

- The slotting is a bit more exotic than my norm. The upside of the exotic slotting was that I realized I was so close to S/L cap that Tough was almost not needed. A bit of juggling and it turned out to not be needed at all. This makes one less toggle which is always nice. Tough still needs to be taken to reach Weave but it's merely a mule.

 

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Downsides:

- Definitely squishier than my Rad/MA. The build works very well against simple opponents as @Camel mentions in his guide. It is not difficult to survive grabbing agro saturation in the monster hunt during Hami raids. But once debuffs start being used things can go sour very fast. 

- Dragon Tail plays horribly with the Clockwork's weakness to KB gimmick. Save yourself angst and use an unslotter to substitute one IO of your choice from Dragon Tail for a Sudden Acceleration while going through that TF during leveling or if deciding to put yourself through it again once at max level.

- The downside of the exotic slotting has Hasten suffering a bit and at a hefty 144 seconds but the FF procs are going to help narrow that gap.

 

It is important to notice that the build HAS sapper protection. It is actually a rather good sapping protection (98% endurance drain resistance) but we need to be pre-emptive about it. Basically it is Consume. Using it gives a two minute buff and since Consume recharges in one minute this is easily a perma effect. But, it needs to be used pre-emptively. If you're doing sapping content (a friend of mine made an AE arc purpose made to slap me, and it worked really well with sapping enemies) use Consume either on cooldown or keeping an eye on the buff. But this does not protect against -recovery debuffs! Standing by a Super Stunner when it resurrects will still smack your recovery down. But at least a Sapper will not take a huge gulp of of your blue bar leading to catastrophic detoggling.

 

 

 

 But the leveling, how is the leveling?

 

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When I reach a pack of mobs I will usually open with Storm Kick (defense, resistance from the Tanker IO), Build-Up, Burn, (DAMAGE!), then Dragon Tail (Force Feedback proc acceleration and soft CC). Because of the slotting this order means Dragon Tail will always be ready at the same time as Burn. It is thus easy to align both allowing Burn to go first so it enjoys the FF proc. Then Cobra Strike (big damage all procced out as it is further enhanced by Builds-Up and the Gaussian proc (Gaussian lasts 5 seconds, so 2.3 seconds from Burn + 1.7 seconds Dragon Tail = 4 seconds)) followed by another Storm Kick (keep dem Tanker +resistance procs rolling and defense up). By now Burn is available once more and everything can start over.

 

In single target I try to go with Storm Kick, Cobra Strike, Storm Kick, Crane Kick. Loop over. Burn whenever it is up. As the hardest hitter skill of the build it takes precedence.

 

Do not try to hoard Build up and Fiery Embrace. I would not use both at the same time though. Build-up + Burn will already kill minions and using Fiery Embrace at the same time would only double kill them. I would rather stagger the use of both but use them all the time. Fire Armor primes for being an offensive armor set and it is something to lean on. BU + Burn, keep fighting, Burn is up again? Now use it with FE. The Force Feedback procs ensure they come back often.


 

 

The build with Cobra Strike instead of Crippling Axe Kick. The changes are minor (Cobra Strike 327 damage VS Crippling Axe Kick 352), but the upside is that the build has all the AoE and ST by level 20! A friend wants to do Positron part one? Go in there like a champ with your full AoE and ST kit fully slotted, no greyed out attacks. Not many builds can boast of this. If wanting to play with pylon times take Crippling Axe Kick instead and replace one of the damage procs in it and Burn for a -res proc, but I have explained below why I stopped using -res procs, and that was the reason to take CAK so there is no particular reason to wait until 38 to have a full kit. Everything else after level 20 is just to add more damage or sturdiness.

 

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 Incarnate priority:

 

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Leveling build with tips:

 

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Something I tested around page 4 or 5 was incarnates and their effect. Not napkin math but actual testing.

 

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To use -res procs or not?

 

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+4 AV testing:

 

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Pylon testing:

 

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A must read for any beginner Tank who wants to be a powerful Tank.  It's jam-packed.  I've just discovered this thread.  So I'll mine it for 'pearls of wisom.'

 

A sound read.  One I'll keep coming back to for all the details.

 

eg.  Your noting of which tanks can AND can't fit 'Force Feedback' is noteworthy.  It is something I've only recently wrapped my head around with my 'ten tank rolls'.  Some attack sets you can.  Some you can't.  Useful to know if you want a high octane build.

 

Impressive.

 

Azrael.

Edited by Golden Azrael
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Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

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I like your '80-20' approach.

 

You don't HAVE to build an immutable tank.  You can build an AT (any AT...) to the point where it will give a good account for '80%' or 'most' of CoH's content.  (Ie.  It may not survive all edge cases.  It may not have the fastest Pylon Time.)

 

But if you build a very good (as opposed to 'Excellent') Tank which you can enjoy playing.  He can 'hang' with the big boys even if he's not the 'Superman' on the block.

 

I call this 'reach.'  Eg.  When you're leveling.  Weave.  '5%, you don't notice that.'  (I do.)  Then you take Cj.  Another 2.5%.  Then Manoeuvres.  Another 2.5-4%.  All of a sudden, you have At least ten per cent defence to all damage types.  Pop a luck and that's another 15% giving you a temporary 25%.  Add that to Resistances of 60-80% and you're a Tank that can handle themselves.


Obviously a build out can push you close the cap or past it depending on your trade offs.

 

Azrael.

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Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

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Posted (edited)
  On 9/14/2020 at 10:24 AM, Sovera said:

On a lark I have started leveling a new character on Excelsior and decided on iron man rules (no inf transfers). Which means starting with zero cash and like a destitute refugee (from another server).

 

A few things were immediately noticeable as I went on and it ended being that my experience in leveling with ATOs and attuned IOs made a world of difference. I mean, yeah, intellectually I knew it, but the rose tinted glasses made me remember leveling without them much easier than it turned out to be.

 

 

I leveled feeling super squishy and my damage output being no great two shakes. Burn, as praised as it is by the community, is a weak little thing when we compare its basic slotting to the procced out slotting. Just like Savage Leap of Savage Melee Burn takes to procs like fish to water. The summoning of a pseudo pet who tries to use the procs a second time, coupled with the long recharge and animation makes it an amazing host for damage procs. In its ultimate form it is a 10 second ish mini nuke and in its basic form it is a warm breeze.

 

Anyway, I will add my experiences as I leveled because new new players can certainly make use of it.

 


 

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"It was still annoying and if I was to start over I would do two endurance reduction in each attack and cover the gaps with the use of Swipe."

 

Ya don't say? 😉

 

Seriously.  My golden rule for stamina equilibrium (which is what I call the conflict between stamina going out and stamina coming in...) is toggles.  Minimum?  x1.  For Fighting Toggles?  x2.  Tough and Weave seem expensive.  I wouldn't run Man's from Leadership with no end red in it? 😮

 

I'm obsessive about it.  In fact, my SO builds are often better with stamina than the build outs.


Attacks?  If it's above ten?  x2 End Reds.  If it's below ten, at least 1 End Red.

 

You had plenty of stamina coming in.  Just not enough inertia on the stamina going out.  And it's easily and quickly spent on an AoE, MA (quick performing set) Tank.  You already had loads of damage up to L20.  The priority for me, when 'turbo levelling' is end.  Keeping my feet.  I don't have to stop because I prioritise the Eq.  Since the patch, Tanks do plenty of dam.  And if you have Fire AoE armour, you're golden, even unslotted for damage.

 

I'm not surprised you were having end issues.  (Almost all alts seem to have a problem with end on that TF, though.)

 

An enthralling guide.

 

I'll take notes for my next Tank.

 

But which of your Dragon, Turtle or Ice/Fire will I choose?

 

Azrael.

Edited by Golden Azrael
Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

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Posted

As for incarnates.

 

I used Cardiac on my Fire/Fire Tanker.  Stamina problem well and truly vanquished.  I had it sorted with SOs.  Fire is a squishy tank.  So I like Cardiac's -20 % to incoming damage?  I can take Ageless Radial to soften/stop the debuffs to slowing up my #regen attack/survive chain on the alpha mob hit.  Plus Winter's Gift (which I'd put in CJ.)  Plus the Avalanche style sets.  Base global recharge of 60-70% plus Hasten.  130-140% recharge?

 

I can make up the damage by?  The Tank patch.  I'm a fire tanker.  I'll take Assault Incarnate.  I'll take Pyro Judgement and 'vark' anything that decides it wants to 'Have a go...'

 

Plus I get damage bonus points from my purple sets.

 

I have build up.  I Fire Embrace.

 

I have burn.

 

I have a damage Tik.

 

Just how much damage do I need? 😮

 

Azrael.

Sovera

Sovera

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I am trying to figure out why I am enjoying the Fire/Stone Melee and what makes it stand out from The Big Three (Ice, Martial Arts, Claws). I'm thinking it may be because it has a bit of everything from The Big Three hybridizing it into a single entity.

 

Ice has a big hitter in Freezing Touch and has an early Build-up, but lacks a good single target rotation that feels good thanks to Greater Ice Sword being terribad (so bad it's about the same to use an AoE in a ST rotation with all the downsides it entails). Ice Patch makes it safe and good out of the box though.

 

Claws has a good attack chain, a very good early AoE, but lacks a heavy hitter and Follow-up has its downsides. For example I wanted to test my Claws/Fire Brute in Moonfire after having done it on the Fire/Stone Melee Tanker and was surprised at having so much of a hard time getting through the first mission since I was not using inspirations to mimic the Fire/Stone run. The vampyres would debuff my accuracy so much I would have to slowly hope for a lucky shot since Follow-up could not even hit to buff my accuracy. On the other hand a set (like Stone Melee) with an early build-up had no problem with that (or with low level Circle of Thorns with the bosses doing the big forcefield, the little ghosts doing -acc and the big ghosts doing a -ToHit aura) because they can punch through with BU + Gaussian.

 

Martial Arts has a late Build-Up preventing punch-through until 28 and lacks a heavy hitter. It makes up for this with the unique gimmick of allowing a resistance based armor to softcap melee/ranged/AoE. The Force Feedback proc in an AoE is a world of difference compared to just having it in a single target skill and it has a large impact on the damage output of a build that has two Build-Up mechanics and healing/endurance clickies. This is why the build is a beast that is as offensive as the others while being a veritable turtle.

 

 

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A Tanker is is the best position to overlook this with two choices in armor sets that can do AoE by themselves and soon: Fire Armor with Burn at 18 allowing to exemplar as low as level 13 and still melt a spawn by themselves while having it for every pack. And Radiation Armor who can use proc bombs in Radiation Therapy and Ground Zero to do all the AoE needed (preferably paired with one of the attack sets that has FF procs. Rad/Stone Melee is not quite to my standards since it would take reaching 26).

 

Fire Armor also helps with ST with Burn being powerful enough to replace an ST attack and also providing cleave (if five or less mobs left there is no need to use AoEs, just keep hitting the boss and Burn will coincidentally handle the rest) and Fiery Embrace for further pushing. The combo of both can be alternated for long enough to make Tanker damage feel good.

 

Build-Up lasts 10 seconds and has a 28 second CD (less with FF procs), so we use it, the 28 seconds start ticking, and when the 10 seconds are over we use Fiery Embrace. Fiery Embrace lasts 20 seconds. So when it is over the 18 seconds have elapsed and we can use Build Up again for another 10 seconds.

 

 

 

I'm digressing. Back to the topic.

 

Stone Melee is very nice. The animations are just a touch slow but not too much. War Mace/Axe prime for their 2.5 animations despite hitting hard. Rad Melee's heavy hitter is a glacial 2.9 and even Energy Melee has at least a 2.77 Total Focus in the rotation and that's for those who don't also do 2.9 slow Energy Transfer.

 

Stone Melee on the other hand chills about with 1.8 animations. Heavy hitter? 1.7. To compare it does 613 where Knockout Blow is 631 (782 with one stack of Rage) and 2.4 animation, Devastating Blow is that glacial 2.9 and doing 577 damage, Crushing Uppercut is 740 with three combo points and 2.3 seconds. Freezing Touch is a blazing 1.2 animation but pays for it and being a T7 by doing 514 damage.

 

Not seen in a vacuum they all have their perks though. EM is still the best ST damage and being mainly energy it gets past the annoying resistances, KO Blow comes with Rage that can be twice stack to push the damage even more, Devastating Blow has Irradiated Ground ticking in the background for much more damage than a mere damage aura could dream of (plus being a very good vehicle for two -res procs which push Devastating's damage).

 

 

Now Fire/Stone Melee, well, it just combines the best traits to produce a good playing experience. It will not do the most ST, or do the most AoE (Tremor pays for the wide native radius by doing a nudge more damage than Stone Fists), or be the safest, but, it has a little bit of everything.

 

The attack chain starts early. Even without having everything in place there are few gaps where waiting for something to cycle so we can press a button. Even super low level.

Two FF procs in the ST chain make everything feel better in the low levels. We have Consume up faster, heal, Burn.

It does not need to reach 38 to finish the attack chain. Rather level 38 is just a damage boost since the attack chain remains unperturbed.

It is a -bit- safer by doing a mass KD with each Tremor, and each Tremor is a near guaranteed FF proc which boosts the offense and defense by making all clickies available sooner.

Early AoE in Burn, later boosted by Tremor.

 

 

Now with this Is Fire/Stone The Strongest Build? No. Fire/Rad cleared Yin in 40 minutes where Fire/Stone did in 48 minutes (and Fire Rad later on gets a second AoE), but so many people hate Devastating Blow for good reason, and until then we twiddle thumbs because we don't have a complete ST rotation. Energy Melee will do more damage, but what a slog to 38 to complete the ST and gaps until then.

 

But playing it I'm thinking, this is smooth, this is buttery, I'm brawling mobs with the No Weapon animations and they keep on being thrown up in the air and interrupted, I'm throwing BU + Burn followed by Tremor and half a spawn is dead.

 

 

At the risk of making Bill sad again Claws is in danger of being pushed from The Big Three.

 

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- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

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Posted (edited)

Interesting read, Sovera.

 

A Trinity of Tanks.

 

Then you roll a Fire/Stone Tank.  🙂

 

I smile.  Because a while back, before I went on my Tank Top Ten spree....

 

I decided to see what all the fuss was about regarding Brutes.  (Sure, I'd rolled a Shield/SS Brute and capped it out in all positions...who hasn't?  A real 'gangster' with Electric fence, Ball and Pyro' Incarnate to AoE the hell out of mobs...stacking with Shield Charge and Foot Stomp....  *Hmm....Mmmm...powerful this one is....)

 

So I did an experiment and rolled x3 concurrent levelling Brutes.  Rad/Rad.  Fire/Stone (*Waves at Sovera) and?  Elec Armour and the Energy Melee.

 

Oh yes.

 

I did the beatdown to L50.

 

Rad/Rad.

 

And I do like all three for different reasons.  Rad/Rad melts.  And it hits hard single target.  You get the damage ticks.  Then you get that Tier 9 with the Res' Boosts and Dam' Boost.  It's off the charts good.  It will melt Council +4x8 with no resistance from them.  Ambush mobs, the lot.  All melted.

 

Fire/Stone.

 

This came from my slight irritation of play Invul'/Energy Tank and Invul' having no passive tick.  I wanted MOAR damage.  (I think this was before the Tanking patch and BEFORE the Energy Melee pass.)  So I put my Tank on 'pause' to level up later.

 

I rolled the 'Brute' version of two brutes.  Fire/Energy and Fire/Stone.  I was far more satisfied with the aggregating damage from a brute and the passive tick.  It was night and day compared to pre-patch Tanks.  


So I came back to the idea of a Fire/Stone Brute with my 3-Way Challenge.

 

Fire/Stone on a Brute is a revelation.  Yes, we know Fire does damage.  But Stone melee seems to get bonus if you have Fire armour?  What I like about Stone is it is fun.  Nothing beats getting Fisted (!) by a Stone Fist.  Or a Stone Hammer.  Or another STone HaMmUR that is even bigger than the other one.   You get TWO AoEs.  One that didn't used to do damage but now DOES!  (And that makes a big difference on the post Patch Tank.)  And another that is up in the air, down to the ground knock the skittles over satisfying.  It never fails to 'give.'  Stack those two?  You get decent hedge trimming values for a mob.  Fit x2 Force Feedbacks in those and mobs never keep their feet with a foot stomp and a crashing beat down.

 

Then you get Seismic which is absolutely  quick, devastating and super accurate stun tastic.  Stone is relentless.  It's the one melee set I've tested than any other.  WP/Stone Tank.  Stone Dominator.  Stone Brute.  Stone/Stone Tank...  (All of these I did on live as well.)  So that's 8 times, at least I've played Stone Melee.  

 

With fire?  It's riotous.  Council mobs hate me...and I give them a burning kicking.

 

Elec Armour/Energy Melee.

 

+4x8 Council Mobs can hurt me over time.  But I have a pocket regen button that brings my health back.  And Power Sink to dampen their enthusiasm.  Mean time?  You deliver some City Rocking Blows to to +4s.  Two shots minimum.  Many one shotted.  It hits with Heaven and Earth.  The much improved AoE/Cone and AMP'ed Total Focus mechanic thin the herd with compelling speed.

 

Wide Screen Truck Hitting.  The mother of said.

 

I could roll ANY of these as Tanks and Find them compelling.

 

My Conclusion?

 

You'll really enjoy a Fire/Stone Tank.

 

Best of both worlds.  You get some AoE Burn, some BIG hitting Melee Attacks.  You even get a couple of Melee AoE attacks that stack with your burn auras and keep mobs on their Az. 

 

You even get fun thrown in for free.

 

Azrael.

 

 

Edited by Golden Azrael
Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

Posted
Posted

The simple fact is Stone IS that good.  Put Fire behind it.  And...I did it on a brute.  But a post patch Tank and following the Stone pass...be worth rolling said wit a Tank.  Relentless.

 

My Stone/Stone Tank is insanely good.  Walks into a +4x8 Arachnos mission.  You know what's coming next. 🙂

 

Claws.  Never tried it on a Tank.  But it's sublime on my Scrapper.  Though I dare say I'll crib some finer points from your Fire/Tank build.  Focus.  Chunk.  Spin.  And a Claw AoE throw attack.  Vicious stuff.  Aint no mob going anywhere went I gets my claws inta dem.  (Proc city.  Assault Radial Tier 4.)

 

Th' only way they leave is through a cheese grater.

 

Azrael.

Sovera

Sovera

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

*crawls out of Manticore's TF* ....two.. hour... long... Over 30 minutes just to kill Hopkins twice... Fighting something that has like 65% Smash resistance tested my will to live.

 

 

Edited by Sovera

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

PLVRIZR

PLVRIZR

Posted
Posted
  On 6/8/2022 at 10:11 PM, Sovera said:

*crawls out of Manticore's TF* ....two.. hour... long... Over 30 minutes just to kill Hopkins twice... Fighting something that has like 65% Smash resistance tested my will to live.

 

 

Expand  

Solo?  At what diff?

 

The upgraded PP Elites are no joke, either...

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Sovera

Sovera

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 6/9/2022 at 1:23 AM, PLVRIZR said:

Solo?  At what diff?

 

The upgraded PP Elites are no joke, either...

Expand  

 

Solo +1x8, no deaths. PPs were no problem. In fact I can count on the fingers of one hand any PP who managed to get their T9 off thanks to Seismic Smash keeping them perma CC until death.

 

No, it was basically killing the two AVs at the end. The woman was okay, but dat Hopkins... Tanker damage, no -res, and pure smash was not a good combo against that AV in particular.

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well, AVs are bit grindy.  I always thought so.  Entire teams thraping an AV for 20 mins and wondering why they got nowhere.

 

That's where I'd call a Rad/Sonic Defender as back up.

 

I limit my Tanks to doing EBs.  I haven't got the patience for solo-AVs.

 

Would Rad/Stone better for that?  And the 'Degen' Interface from the Incarnate Interface?

 

Anything S*L resistant.  We know when we hit that wall in the 40-50s where the debuff based play grinds.  GRINDS!  I guess I just double up and hit them harder. 😛  I love giving the Malta Gunslinger the Seismic Beatdown.

 

'You're not Captain America now, are ya?#

 

Azrael.

Edited by Golden Azrael
Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

Posted
Posted
  On 6/9/2022 at 1:23 AM, PLVRIZR said:

Solo?  At what diff?

 

The upgraded PP Elites are no joke, either...

Expand  

 

I thought some of the mobs were getting upgrades here and there.  I even got Taunted by one of them which I hadn't noticed before...

 

Azrael.

Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

Posted
Posted
  On 11/20/2021 at 7:12 PM, Rakshir said:

@Sovera, Could you use Spring Attack with the Fire / Ice build to get another AE and a FF +recharge into the build ?  I'm not a big fan of Flight, so will have Super Jump and Combat Jump already.

Expand  

 

I'd say.  'Try it.'

 

I 'DID' put a Force Feedback in Shield Charge on my Shield/MA Tanker.  I had 'that' many AoEs in the end I could just use a couple of powers with FF and max out my Melee with Oblivion Set in SC.

 

I, ofc, find Force Feedbacks best in AoE attacks when surrounded with 'moar' mobs.  Both my Shield MA and my Shield Elec Armour are 300% recharge at times (with other recharges taken into consideration...)

 

Azrael.

Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 6/9/2020 at 1:40 PM, Rathulfr said:

I never liked the term "scranker".  It always makes my lips itch.  😬

 

Expand  

 

Well, here in the UK, you'd better watch yourself saying dat ta someone.  *(Brunker, 'You called me, what?!')

 

Ok, Sovera.  I've read re: the basic idea behind all three builds.  The Fridge.  The Dragon.  The Turtle.  The idea: one is safe, one deals the damage and another comes out top in both metrics in terms of 'Balance' for your Brunker terminology?  (Is cool for a CoH phrase that caught me off guard and will go down in community Lore.  Sure, why NOT a mix of Tank and B****?)

 

The one question I'd ask Sovera?  If they had to give a 'Fun Factor' out of 5 for each one, I wonder how they'd score?  I've done Claws on live and HC.  I think it's seamless.  It is for melee what Energy is for blaster.  Pure butter.  (Many of the 'old school' sets are silky smooth though.  The design on them.  Top Notch.)  MA is super cool.  But I'd rate Stone higher than MA.  Will Sovera's Fire/Stone Odyssey supercede even their Fire/MA?

 

I've saved 'most intriguing' of each build variations to my Mids Folder.

 

*Tanker Dice rollin' hand.  **Gettin' real itchy.  (Don't do it Azrael, you've rolled Ten Tanks in a Row...let it go, man.  We don't want ta have to take you down tuh the Tank Therapy Centre.)

 

Azrael.

Edited by Golden Azrael
Sovera

Sovera

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
  On 6/9/2022 at 11:15 AM, Golden Azrael said:

 

I thought some of the mobs were getting upgrades here and there.  I even got Taunted by one of them which I hadn't noticed before...

 

Azrael.

Expand  

 

The new ones now do -res (deadly on defense based sets but not much on resistance sets), -def, psi attacks and confuse. Taunting has always been a thing from the juggernauts.

 

 

  On 6/9/2022 at 11:12 AM, Golden Azrael said:

Well, AVs are bit grindy.  I always thought so.  Entire teams thraping an AV for 20 mins and wondering why they got nowhere.

 

That's where I'd call a Rad/Sonic Defender as back up.

 

I limit my Tanks to doing EBs.  I haven't got the patience for solo-AVs.

 

Would Rad/Stone better for that?  And the 'Degen' Interface from the Incarnate Interface?

 

Anything S*L resistant.  We know when we hit that wall in the 40-50s where the debuff based play grinds.  GRINDS!  I guess I just double up and hit them harder. 😛  I love giving the Malta Gunslinger the Seismic Beatdown.

 

'You're not Captain America now, are ya?#

 

Azrael.

Expand  

 

Manticore is level 30-35 so no Degenerative yet. Hopkins is -always- a slog though. So even coming out of it disheartened I accept the guy is my kryptonite lite (because I did get him even without envenomed daggers or insps 😛 ).

 

Otherwise the TF went swimmingly with PPs locked down, juggernauts prevented from bubbling up  and even the S/L resistant bosses being slapped down without undully slowing things. Locking the psi/-def/confusing bosses before they could get up my face felt amazing.

 

This is also part of the 'smooth 'buttery' experience. Sure, we can plow through or wait for the bubbles or T9s to elapse. Or we can prevent them from happening.

 

Edited by Sovera

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Sovera

Sovera

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 6/9/2022 at 1:23 PM, Golden Azrael said:

 

Well, here in the UK, you'd better watch yourself saying dat ta someone.  *(Brunker, 'You called me, what?!')

 

Ok, Sovera.  I've read re: the basic idea behind all three builds.  The Fridge.  The Dragon.  The Turtle.  The idea: one is safe, one deals the damage and another comes out top in both metrics in terms of 'Balance' for your Brunker terminology?  (Is cool for a CoH phrase that caught me off guard and will go down in community Lore.  Sure, why NOT a mix of Tank and B****?)

 

The one question I'd ask Sovera?  If they had to give a 'Fun Factor' out of 5 for each one, I wonder how they'd score?  I've done Claws on live and HC.  I think it's seamless.  It is for melee what Energy is for blaster.  Pure butter.  (Many of the 'old school' sets are silky smooth though.  The design on them.  Top Notch.)  MA is super cool.  But I'd rate Stone higher than MA.  Will Sovera's Fire/Stone Odyssey supercede even their Fire/MA?

 

I've saved 'most intriguing' of each build variations to my Mids Folder.

 

*Tanker Dice rollin' hand.  **Gettin' real itchy.  (Don't do it Azrael, you've rolled Ten Tanks in a Row...let it go, man.  We don't want ta have to take you down tuh the Tank Therapy Centre.)

 

Azrael.

Expand  

 

Fun fun I would say the MA version. The first times we do Burn followed by Dragontail and everyrhing is burning, flopping, FF procs acrivates... It is glorious. Someone describbed it as turbo charged blowtorch and it fits.

 

The cherry on top is the 45% defense. It takes doing content with a ton of debuffs to appreciate how they are not landing.

 

But with your preference to level with SOs then Ice Melee (do try to stick minimum two damage procs in Burn).

  • Haha 1

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

Posted
Posted

Well, that's pretty good going when you put it like that.

 

The thing is.  Every narrative needs a nemesis?  Or where would the fun be in CoH if you were completely immune.

 

Part of the fun reading your Brunker thread is the 'struggle' of your journey to get that holy grail of balance in Defence/Attack for Tanks.

 

That's the whole challenge of 'what's the best tank?'

 

Everybody has a solution for the design trade offs involved.  In particular, I had fun reading your proc solutions in your Brunker Tank Trinity.  

 

Proccing is something I've got into in the last year.  And laser targeting in a Tank build deals aggregate damage or speed.  (One you've wrapped your head around them.)

 

And your cake fest of procs in a couple of powers made me think, 'I want a slice of that...'

 

Azrael.

Golden Azrael

Golden Azrael

Posted
Posted
  On 6/9/2022 at 1:39 PM, Sovera said:

 

Fun fun I would say the MA version. The first times we do Burn followed by Dragontail and everyrhing is burning, flopping, FF procs acrivates... It is glorious. Someone describbed it as turbo charged blowtorch and it fits.

 

The cherry on top is the 45% defense. It takes doing content with a ton of debuffs to appreciate how they are not landing.

 

But with your preference to level with SOs then Ice Melee (do try to stick minimum two damage procs in Burn).

Expand  

 

That's good to hear.  You have to give it to MA.  It's very 'explosive.'  Nothing quite beats Crane Kick and the Mob flies 'off camera.'  It always gives.

 

'Turbo-Charged' is a phrase I've come to use on my Tank drive chains.  (The FF's have been a recent science for me.  Turbo-Charged.  The means by which armours and attacks recharge their intentions.)  And a Turbo-Charged BLow TOrRcH sounds like rains glorious fun.  With a capital F.  All dat burning, proccing, floppin'...FF (what does the F stand for *wink.  Force Feedback or *********** fun?)

 

Like you say, I try to move Heaven and Earth (without chopping up my Primary and Secondaries...) to get that 45% Melee cap.  If you have that on a Fire/MA.  They're going to be difficulty to handle.  And like all great fights?  It's who gets the 1st punch in...

 

Aye.  My preference IS to level with SOs.  Recently, I've softened my stance on this to surgically add the 'odd' Unique IO as they become available.  You know, the usual suspects of Panacea, FF's.  Global defences.  I'd maintain to any 'Starter' Tank or anyone 'new' to Tanking?  Just a handful of of Uniques and later, the Tanking ATs can go a long way for relatively little coin.  As I've noted re: your build advice.  You often include a 'cheap' build option.  Ergo.  You DON'T have to spend hundreds of millions to have fun.  Using your 80/20 rule you can create a fun tank that is 'good enough' for most game content.

 

The 'two dam' procs in Burn is noted. 🙂

 

Azrael.

 

 

  • 1 month later
muggtonp

muggtonp

Posted
Posted

Thanks for posting this - I've been stealing it and having a lot of fun. I might just be dumb, but is the one posted under 'leveling' the final product for Fire/MA?

  • Thumbs Up 1
Sovera

Sovera

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 7/17/2022 at 10:52 PM, muggtonp said:

Thanks for posting this - I've been stealing it and having a lot of fun. I might just be dumb, but is the one posted under 'leveling' the final product for Fire/MA?

Expand  

 

Yep, good catch. It's been up for years and no one ever noticed. I've replaced it for a real leveling build for Fire/MA.

  • Thumbs Up 1

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

muggtonp

muggtonp

Posted
Posted
  On 7/17/2022 at 11:33 PM, Sovera said:

 

Yep, good catch. It's been up for years and no one ever noticed. I've replaced it for a real leveling build for Fire/MA.

Expand  

Alrighty, so to steal the final build properly I WOULD want cobra strike over crippling axe kick

Sovera

Sovera

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 7/18/2022 at 1:43 AM, muggtonp said:

Alrighty, so to steal the final build properly I WOULD want cobra strike over crippling axe kick

Expand  

 

You can have either. Near zero difference if the slotted damage is compared. CAK does a tiny bit more damage and can slot a -res proc if you intend to break pylons. But while leveling there is no point in using Thunder Kick since it is very bad in terms of damage.

 

For leveling the rotation is something like Storm Kick, Crane Kick, Cobra Strike, Thunder Kick, Storm Kick. If there are gaps then mix in more Thunder Kicks. But around 20-ish the recharge starts kicking in and Thunder Kick can be completely removed from the equation. Without Cobra Strike then Thunder Kick would still be in use until 38.

 

At max level and depending if you never intend to exemplar pick CAK or Cobra Strike. If you do exemplar lower than 33 then Thunder kick is back on the menu.

- Simple guide for newcomers. - Money making included among other things.

- Tanker Fire Armor: the Turtle, the Allrounder, the Dragon, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

- Tanker Stone Armor: beginner friendly (near) immortal Tanker for leveling/end-game and Stone Armor framework.

- Brute Rad/Stone and compilation of Brute Stone Armor builds.

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