Fire/MA: the Brunker, and compilation of Fire Armor builds.

[muggtonp]

I've leveled the whole build almost to completion - just a bit more incarnate farming and I'll be done. It's been a great ride from 1-50+, so thanks for posting it here. One small thing, though - some individuals have voiced their displeasure with the lack of taunt on this build. Out of curiosity, what would you drop to slot it in?

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, muggtonp said:

I've leveled the whole build almost to completion - just a bit more incarnate farming and I'll be done. It's been a great ride from 1-50+, so thanks for posting it here. One small thing, though - some individuals have voiced their displeasure with the lack of taunt on this build. Out of curiosity, what would you drop to slot it in?

 

Tell them to suck an egg.

 

I suppose taking out Temperature Protection, then placing the Gladiator's Armor 3% in Plasma Shield replacing the Steadfast -KB, then placing the Blessing of the Zephyr - KB in Fly replacing the Winter's Gift. Build loses 40% slow/recharge debuff resistance.

[Infinitum]

12 hours ago, muggtonp said:

I've leveled the whole build almost to completion - just a bit more incarnate farming and I'll be done. It's been a great ride from 1-50+, so thanks for posting it here. One small thing, though - some individuals have voiced their displeasure with the lack of taunt on this build. Out of curiosity, what would you drop to slot it in?

 

8 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Tell them to suck an egg.

 

I suppose taking out Temperature Protection, then placing the Gladiator's Armor 3% in Plasma Shield replacing the Steadfast -KB, then placing the Blessing of the Zephyr - KB in Fly replacing the Winter's Gift. Build loses 40% slow/recharge debuff resistance.

 

I concur with @Sovera none of my builds contain taunt.

 

Personally I don't need it on any of my builds - that is not to say it is a useless power - but there are many ways to play this game.

 

The question is - do you feel the need to have taunt.  If the answer is no - the " tell them to go suck an egg" approach is validated. 😀

[muggtonp]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

 

 

I concur with @Sovera none of my builds contain taunt.

 

Personally I don't need it on any of my builds - that is not to say it is a useless power - but there are many ways to play this game.

 

The question is - do you feel the need to have taunt.  If the answer is no - the " tell them to go suck an egg" approach is validated. 😀

Hey, fancy seeing you here too

 

I do about 50/50 solo and team based content and I don't imagine taunt is particularly useful solo (cuz, yknow, solo) and I haven't really felt its absence in the multiplayer stuff I run (MSR, etc) - there's always been somebody else doing pulls. I was just surprised when I mentioned it offhand and a bunch of people immediately had a strong reaction to it

[Infinitum]

22 minutes ago, muggtonp said:

Hey, fancy seeing you here too

 

I do about 50/50 solo and team based content and I don't imagine taunt is particularly useful solo (cuz, yknow, solo) and I haven't really felt its absence in the multiplayer stuff I run (MSR, etc) - there's always been somebody else doing pulls. I was just surprised when I mentioned it offhand and a bunch of people immediately had a strong reaction to it

 

Strong reactions does not a decision make - especially when its other people's strong reactions.  😁

[Sovera]

On 7/22/2022 at 7:17 PM, muggtonp said:

Hey, fancy seeing you here too

 

I do about 50/50 solo and team based content and I don't imagine taunt is particularly useful solo (cuz, yknow, solo) and I haven't really felt its absence in the multiplayer stuff I run (MSR, etc) - there's always been somebody else doing pulls. I was just surprised when I mentioned it offhand and a bunch of people immediately had a strong reaction to it

 

It has use in niche situations. You might deem them important enough to pick Taunt, but don't be forced by others.

 

- Taunting Hami's mitos. While staying at range a Tanker will use Taunt to keep the mitos focused on them. Only important if you get picked to do it (I got picked once, said I didn't had it and the raid leader did not even blink and just asked someone else so there is no drama).

- Forcing ranged mobs to come close. The annoyance of mobs who stay far and plink at us forcing to be killed one by one is mitigated by Taunt. But using Taunt or jumping over and arrest them with a refreshing dousing of napalm is the same to me. I experimented with Battle Maiden to see if I could lure her out of the blue circles but she refused and that ended my brief experiment.

- Forcing mobs attacking squishies to redirect to you. Currently not very useful once having agro cap, but will work better with the next patch currently in beta. Still, my approach is keeping a look on the battle field and if I see mobs peeling off to go hug my squishies I just jump over and dump some gas on the mobs before flicking a match.

 

Most of the time I see Taunt used 'wrong' with Tankers jumping into a group and then using it, or just mixing it in their rotation. My brother in tankyness, you are in the middle of the group, you've just agroed them all with your aura so why are you taunting...?

 

So with all said you don't need to excuse yourself if you want to take Taunt. It's perfectly fine and it does have uses. But if you want to live without it is equally fine and viable thus pick what -you- want.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Sovera

[ZemX]

48 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Most of the time I see Taunt used 'wrong' with Tankers jumping into a group and then using it, or just mixing it in their rotation. My brother in tankyness, you are in the middle of the group, you've just agroed them all with your aura so why are you taunting...?

 

I am nearly always standing in the middle of a group while using it.  The whole point of having a 70 foot range, 22.5ft radius, autohit Taunt with -range debuff is that I don't have to leave that group to bring things to me or tear stray aggro off teammates.  If I've got most of the enemies right there with me, I might as well be cooking them on the spot and dishing out AoEs than dancing around a room smack-taunting a few outliers to maintain control, while trailing a dozen enemies chasing behind me, I figure.

 

I weigh it against any other 1-slot wonder I might replace it with and usually can't come up with too many contenders that make the actual "tanking" part of the job quite as easy or effective as that.  In the context of this thread which is about compromising a little of that to do more damage... sure, it makes perfect sense to skip it.   If you solo half the time, there's half the time you're never using Taunt.

[Marshal_General]

I made good use of taunt on an ITF. I jumped into one group and taunted the next one to me. It should be easier with the new aggro changes. I was on a stone/rad, so I had two auras to keep the group I was in taunted.

[Marshal_General]

I am at work so I can't look at your current builds, but do you think the changes to mob attack damage targets will influence your slotting?

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Marshal_General said:

I am at work so I can't look at your current builds, but do you think the changes to mob attack damage targets will influence your slotting?

 

Nope. We're resistance based. S/L defense is just another layer of protection. In the case of the Fire/MA the changes don't even affect it.

[hakurr]

So I just got my Fire / claws tanker to 22 and next will do Posi 1 and wanted to know are you set to AV’s or just EB’s for these

[Sovera]

13 hours ago, hakurr said:

So I just got my Fire / claws tanker to 22 and next will do Posi 1 and wanted to know are you set to AV’s or just EB’s for these

 

TFs will always spawn AVs. If you are super geared it will be fine, but if packing generic IOs then take some Envenomed Daggers from the P2W vendor or you might find you can't outpace the AV's regen.

[Uun]

17 hours ago, hakurr said:

So I just got my Fire / claws tanker to 22 and next will do Posi 1 and wanted to know are you set to AV’s or just EB’s for these

No AV in Posi 1

[Glowman]

On 7/22/2022 at 3:35 PM, Sovera said:

 

It has use in niche situations. You might deem them important enough to pick Taunt, but don't be forced by others.

 

- Taunting Hami's mitos. While staying at range a Tanker will use Taunt to keep the mitos focused on them. Only important if you get picked to do it (I got picked once, said I didn't had it and the raid leader did not even blink and just asked someone else so there is no drama).

- Forcing ranged mobs to come close. The annoyance of mobs who stay far and plink at us forcing to be killed one by one is mitigated by Taunt. But using Taunt or jumping over and arrest them with a refreshing dousing of napalm is the same to me. I experimented with Battle Maiden to see if I could lure her out of the blue circles but she refused and that ended my brief experiment.

- Forcing mobs attacking squishies to redirect to you. Currently not very useful once having agro cap, but will work better with the next patch currently in beta. Still, my approach is keeping a look on the battle field and if I see mobs peeling off to go hug my squishies I just jump over and dump some gas on the mobs before flicking a match.

 

Most of the time I see Taunt used 'wrong' with Tankers jumping into a group and then using it, or just mixing it in their rotation. My brother in tankyness, you are in the middle of the group, you've just agroed them all with your aura so why are you taunting...?

 

So with all said you don't need to excuse yourself if you want to take Taunt. It's perfectly fine and it does have uses. But if you want to live without it is equally fine and viable thus pick what -you- want.

 

 

I agree 100%. The only other reason to run taunt IMO is for hard mode content. The auto hit is really great there. So, I run a separate build for when I do that.

[bustacap]

I have to agree 4 star pugs do cause drama if a tank does not have taunt. I wanted to TA/DP but they needed a tank. They were unkind. 

[Sovera]

On 10/20/2023 at 10:36 PM, bustacap said:

I have to agree 4 star pugs do cause drama if a tank does not have taunt. I wanted to TA/DP but they needed a tank. They were unkind. 

 

4 star teams are highly specialized. You don't bring a Tanker to do damage in one of those.

[bustacap]

This was your earth/em tank build. Mostly just commented on the lack of taunt for 4 stars. The PUGS expect it. I don't see 4 star pugs advertised much anymore so assuming they are private groups/SGs now. Sorry posted late at night to the thread.

[nihilii]

18 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

4 star teams are highly specialized. You don't bring a Tanker to do damage in one of those.

But... But... How else can we do damage if the 4* is Tankers only? 🤔

[Warboss]

On 10/20/2023 at 2:36 PM, bustacap said:

I have to agree 4 star pugs do cause drama if a tank does not have taunt. I wanted to TA/DP but they needed a tank. They were unkind. 

 

Was that 4 out of 5 stars, or 4 out 10? If that later, they WERE being kind.

[Sovera]

Still puttering around in GW2 but feeling the hankering to play CoH again (I'm resisting since I'm chipping at the Skycale and trying to get it over with). I redid the Fire/Ice build and, unsurprisingly, it is better than it was when Frozen Fists was a forced pick and Frozen Aura was a level 38 power. I'm now endorsing Frozen Aura as not having to juggle powers and remove something essential to make room turned it into a definite pick.

 

Freezing touch at 24 is nom nom to deal with Clockwork, and Frozen Aura is good to go for Yin. With three AoE the build will munch through stuff in easy mode. The lack of a T3 or Greater Ice Sword having the rework Greater Fire Sword had will still hurt the single target damage but no one plays a Tanker expecting exceptional single target damage.

 

I left the updated build over here.

[Sovera]

*dusts the thread, again*

 

We're baaaaack.

 

This is in preparation for Page 7, whenever our benevolent god devs deem it fit for consumption.

 

After testing a Stone/Elec I found that the new Thunderstrike gives a much needed help to Elec's ailing ST damage. I unfortunately do not have numbers to offer until our OTHER pantheon of god devs in Mids update the program, but it was some very good chunking of bosses and 2.5 is decent. It still sucks for AoE though. How much does it suck? Well, you know those little gears that pop out of Clockwork bosses? The shockwave only takes about a third of their HP.

 

What Thunderstrike has is the godly chance to proc Force Feedback reliably thanks to doing it in AoE and anyone who followed this thread back in the day has a good inkling of my love of a good FF spammage combined with Burn.

 

I'm particularly proud at how I managed to fit it all and still get good numbers. Some initial testing shows nothing survives the initial BU (with Gaussian) + Lightning Rod + Burn and then Thunderstrike the boss and mop up. I do mean that. Even the lieutenants are dead. This is just while leveling though. I haven't done anything at level 50 yet since I'm saving myself for the release of page 7.

 

But for an armor set based on kill-before-being-killed this is mmmhmmmm *chef's kiss*. I appreciate @Infinitum making me re-test Lightning Rod since I had decided it was not worth using and it was already discarded in my head. In fact I think my previous Elec build in this thread didn't have LR because of that.

 

I would have liked to throw damage procs in both Charged Brawl and Havoc Punch, but, eternal lack of slots rears its head, and the small return. A damage proc in Charged Brawl only had 14% chance to go off and in Havoc Punch it would be 29%.

 

Despite no longer being appreciatively good for ST Burn makes a return to the ST rotation since it still does more damage than using the T1/T2. Havoc + Charged Brawl would do 100 damage less than Burn and take half a second more and two Charged Brawls would do nearly 200 less, so, Burn it is. Like in the ye old golden days before the dev god nation attacked.

 

I can't edit Mid's database since it makes the program crash so I can't place the new stats in it, but even assuming the FF proc did not go off we have a rotation of Burn, Chain Induction, Thunderstrike (this sequence ensures Chain Lightning can use the Gaussian as well as Thunderstrike since the animation only needs to start while the proc is ongoing even if it finishes after it has ended), Charged Brawl, Havoc Punch, Charged Brawl.

Burn recharges in 8 seconds so 1.2 + 2.5 + 1 + 1.7 + 1 = 7.4 seconds. Acceptable, and this assuming the FF proc did not go off. While leveling or while Hasten is not up then Charged Brawl is the bread and butter and it is snuck in between every attack. After some experimenting we can see how many are needed to keep the chain gapless and reduce them as more recharge is acquired.

 

 

The build works in the current page but Thunderstrike will be 3.3 seconds to animate, smaller AoE, and less damage than the new Thunderstrike so I'd wait for it.

 

As usual if someone feels like that they need a leveling build I can cobble something.

 

Tanker (Fiery Aura - Electrical Melee).mbd

[Sovera]

Took the build for a spin over Brainstorm since I really wanted to play some. Leveled it son of kypton style (fully twinked with ATOs and event IOs slotted as soon as they could).

 

From 1-15: regular leveling. No AoE (something could be said about picking Jacob's Ladder, but eeeh) meant defeating everything one by one. Wasn't bad, wasn't great, Charged Brawl and Havoc coupled with the origin power (didn't bother picking prestige attacks) carried me through the early lowbie arcs until I could do Posi 1. Posi 1 was not a problem since I was doing it at 0x1 (no AoE so no point in going higher). Posi 2 went fine until I reached Vhaz, who spawned as a +2, which coupled with only a T1 and a T2 and an origin power meant I couldn't outdamage it.

 

I could have forced it with Envenomed Daggers and inspirations, but heh.

 

 

From 16 to 29: I was 16 by the time I reached Vhaz but had not gone to level. Since I was unable to outdamage its regen I quit and started the TF over. Now armed with Thunderstrike I had at least a heavy hitter (it now hits for just slightly less than Total Focus, which is nice) and some lip service to AoE, but that's fine. Level 17 slots went for Thunderstrike but at 18 I got Burn and kept slotting it until it was maxed. Finally, AoE.

 

Bumped myself from 0x1 to 0x6 even with an unslotted Burn and chugged along. Burn has a longer CD than Thunderstrike, but by using Burn first part of that CD difference is eaten by the animation, then the FF proc kicks, and they were pretty much synced from the very very low levels.

 

Vhaz spawned at +0 and I had Build-up by then so it wasn't difficult or dangerous to whittle it down. Didn't even need inspirations for the guy.

 

Skipped Synapse and went right to Yin. Was level 25 then. Bumped to +1x8. Was stubbornly not wanting to use inspirations and that caused way too many deaths most of them from detoggling. Understandable since none of my armors were slotted (all in damage, baybeh!!). This approach works, but then I'm supposed to live off inspirations, otherwise spare the slots for the armor toggles. It went okay but nothing that really stood out from other Fire Armor combos. Chain Induction remains sucky (does any chain power ever rise from being sucky?), Thunderstrike helps a little bit with AoE but it's most a ST hitter, and it's real job is being a carrier for FF procs.

 

 

From 30 to 34: With Lightning Rod open I started throwing two slots into it and one into Build-up since they are meant to go together. This can be noticed in LR's slotting where I eased up on the recharge so that it matches BU. Lightning Rod clinched the build and the build went from being okay to being DA NUKE! Build-up + Lightning Rod + Burn + Thunderstrike was erasing the majority of any spawn. But then moping was slow. I threw more slots into Chain Induction, finished slotting Lightning Rod and it got better. For someone who does the whole 'defeat the enemies before they defeat you' this is prime steak and I want to play the build for real.

 

I was trying to be cute and use Chain Induction before Burn so that a) it's still inside the Gaussian window (5 seconds. LR = 2.8, CI = 1.2 = 4 seconds, so Burn still catches it. LR + Burn already take the 5 seconds so TS wouldn't fit anyway), and b) so that I can use it a second time inside BU's window. Can't say I noticed much difference either way but +1 bosses usually die in that first rotation, and with them most of the spawn. I was even managing to burst the Freak bosses before they healed but that's more of a matter of timing to catch them while KD. Also, Thunderstrike does not seem to do KD on the main target and instead it does stun. Did not expect that, but I could be wrong since Mids states it does KD on the target. But if so it messes with the idea of TS being a FF carrier once it comes to ST damage.

 

 

Problems: Endurance is guzzled fast and I'm not using Focused Accuracy and Weave yet. I attributed it to fighting the horrid horrid Freaks but even finishing to slot Health and Stamina was unable to keep my endurance up (ok, sure, Super Stunners). LR and TS are hogs.

 

Obviously I need to slot Consume next, slot my armors, etc, all things which will help with endurance and see if an equilibrium can be reached. Level 35 onwards is the homestretch where all the slots trickle back down to the neglected powers. I should have also been using Recovery Serums more freely but was being stubborn again which is not a good look against Freaks and Super Stunners with an unslotted Consume.

 

 

Verdict: Build opens at 18. At 20 the skeleton is up and will be enough to be enjoyable. At 30 it all comes together, 34-ish (going all in slotting only attacks and Hasten) we are in beast mode and no longer sure if playing a Tanker or a Blaster (hyperbole, hyperbole, but check the damage of LR with both BU and Gaussian toggled on). The ST is still mediocre and I found myself spending too much time moping up but that's why we have Fiery Embrace. But, +1 is the time when using T1 and T2 is fine, but when at +3 these attacks will feel like cute little pokes. Even Chain Induction is basically a T2.5 with the same damage as Havoc but 1.2 cast time at least. Ergo the idea remains to spend as much time using TS and Burn.

 

 

I have a leveling build if needed.

Tanker (Fiery Aura - Electrical Melee).mbd