Improvements to PvP zones

[macskull]

4 minutes ago, Alpha-One said:

And yet there is no way for someone to enter the zone and say "I want to do the stuff that's here but I don't want to be engaged in PvP". Again, Siren's Call is empty, for two reasons I can fathom 1) the level cap, and 2) the bounty system helps players track down and engage others actively. There's no spot to sit and wait in ambush like in the other 3 zones.

Siren's Call used to be the PvP zone. The issue 13 changes significantly reduced the population, the issue 16 changes to exemplaring (keeping powers 5 levels above you instead of 0) drove most of the remaining players away, and now on Homecoming the PvP population isn't really large enough to be active in multiple zones at the same time. It has nothing to do with the bounty system.

 

Also, of course there is no way to enter a PvP zone and not be flagged for PvP. That would go against the entire purpose of the zone's existence. You have two options with regard to PvP zones: enter them and risk being attacked by other players, or don't enter them. If you choose to enter a PvP zone to engage in non-PvP content, despite the numerous warnings telling you that you are indeed entering a PvP zone and can be attacked by other players, that is your own decision.

Edited June 13, 2020 by macskull

[Alpha-One]

Just now, Glacier Peak said:

I disagree with this statement. Are you unaware of the risk implied in the message that displays immediately upon entering a PvP zone or are you choosing to ignore the stated fact that PvP zones exist for PvP?

In essence there is no risk to be warned about. Another player is only able to slow down my efforts (griefing). The number of times I was killed didn't matter in the end. Again, it took two weeks but I have ALL the PvP badges now. The only time RV was relatively empty was during raid hours. I'm bringing up suggestions that might entice players like me to go engage in PvP. I can't empathize with someone who thinks griefing is fun because that's what RV and WB felt like. Might as well call them griefing zones. At least in RV the "fight-clubbers" stayed under atlas statue and left the carebears alone. The rest were hanging out by heavies waiting in ambush.

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, Alpha-One said:

And yet there is no way for someone to enter the zone and say "I want to do the stuff that's here but I don't want to be engaged in PvP". Again, Siren's Call is empty, for two reasons I can fathom 1) the level cap, and 2) the bounty system helps players track down and engage others actively. There's no spot to sit and wait in ambush like in the other 3 zones.

The first assumption you stated regarding why Siren's Call is empty may or may not be accurate, however, the second is not. The bounty system doesn't not give real time locations of each bounty, instead it gives the last location over an interval of time. There are also many places to sit and wait to spike damage or ambush, as you say, in Siren's Call.

[macskull]

1 minute ago, Alpha-One said:

Another player is only able to slow down my efforts (griefing).

Again - and I'm beating a dead horse here - being attacked by other players in a player vs. player zone is not griefing.

[Alpha-One]

Just now, macskull said:

Again - and I'm beating a dead horse here - being attacked by other players in a player vs. player zone is not griefing.

Actively attempting to foil another player from accomplishing their goal is what then?

[arcane]

Just now, Alpha-One said:

Actively attempting to foil another player from accomplishing their goal is what then?

PvP

[macskull]

3 minutes ago, Alpha-One said:

Actively attempting to foil another player from accomplishing their goal is what then?

You want to go into a PvP zone and not engage in PvP, thus foiling the PvPer from accomplishing their goal of fighting and defeating other players. By your own definition you are the griefer.

Edited June 13, 2020 by macskull

[Glacier Peak]

7 minutes ago, Alpha-One said:

In essence there is no risk to be warned about. Another player is only able to slow down my efforts (griefing). The number of times I was killed didn't matter in the end. Again, it took two weeks but I have ALL the PvP badges now. The only time RV was relatively empty was during raid hours. I'm bringing up suggestions that might entice players like me to go engage in PvP. I can't empathize with someone who thinks griefing is fun because that's what RV and WB felt like. Might as well call them griefing zones. At least in RV the "fight-clubbers" stayed under atlas statue and left the carebears alone. The rest were hanging out by heavies waiting in ambush.

No, not in essence - in reality, in absolute reality, and stated with the utmost clarity, you are risking being attacked by entering a PvP zone. You are given 30 seconds after entering the zone to read that message and decide how to proceed. 

 

If you suggested increasing the initial zone PvP flagged in timer in order to accommodate individuals who are reading impaired (those who use text to speech programs) then I would say that's an fair suggestion. That being said, I cannot currently support any of your suggestions as you've stated them for the reasons you've explained.

 

Edit. It's a PvP zone.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Glacier Peak

[Apparition]

If you don't want to chance PvP of any form, don't go into a PvP zone.  Problem solved.

 

Here's the thing.  I absolutely loathe PvP.  I hate it.  So what do I do?  I don't go into PvP zones.  Problem solved.  I don't go into PvP zones for any reason whatsoever.  Even back on live before Going Rogue, I almost exclusively played red side, but refused to go into PvP zones.  That meant going without the two +endurance stat boosting accolades on all of my characters for four years.  It just is what it is.

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, macskull said:

You want to go into a PvP zone and not engage in PvP, thus foiling the PvPer from accomplishing their goal of fighting and defeating other players. By your own definition you are the griefer.

Quoted for truth

[Alpha-One]

Just now, macskull said:

Let's flip this around. You want to go into a PvP zone and not engage in PvP, thus foiling the PvPer from accomplishing their goal (fighting and defeating other players). By your own definition you are the griefer, not the PvPer.

Technically it would be the devs doing the griefing as they code it and implement it. Meanwhile you'll still be able to PvP in the arena. Therefor the only "griefing" happening is that you will no longer have zones to "grief" in. And I'm perfectly fine with that.

[Alpha-One]

New suggestion: create instanced versions of the PvP zones available through LFG to allow players to get those badges and temp powers without being hassled.

[macskull]

1 minute ago, Alpha-One said:

Technically it would be the devs doing the griefing as they code it and implement it. Meanwhile you'll still be able to PvP in the arena. Therefor the only "griefing" happening is that you will no longer have zones to "grief" in. And I'm perfectly fine with that.

In other words: "I don't enjoy the aspect of the game that you like so it should be removed." That, folks, tells you all you need to know about the OP's intentions.

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, Alpha-One said:

Technically it would be the devs doing the griefing as they code it and implement it. Meanwhile you'll still be able to PvP in the arena. Therefor the only "griefing" happening is that you will no longer have zones to "grief" in. And I'm perfectly fine with that.

[Alpha-One]

Just now, macskull said:

In other words: "I don't enjoy the aspect of the game that you like so it should be removed." That, folks, tells you all you need to know about the OP's intentions.

Again I can't empathize with someone who enjoys griefing other players. So yes, my intention is to discourage/eliminate opportunities for griefing. I'm sorry if that's an aspect of the game you enjoy.

[Apparition]

4 minutes ago, Alpha-One said:

Technically it would be the devs doing the griefing as they code it and implement it. Meanwhile you'll still be able to PvP in the arena. Therefor the only "griefing" happening is that you will no longer have zones to "grief" in. And I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

Would you be perfectly fine with PvE being taken away outside of instances?  'Cause that's essentially what you're asking for, in reverse.

 

There is absolutely nothing in the PvP zones that you need for PvE.  Not even for accolades now.  I get The Atlas Medallion and Portal Jockey blue side, and then go back red side.

 

Now if there's things in the PvP zones that you want... well, them's the breaks.

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, Alpha-One said:

Again I can't empathize with someone who enjoys griefing other players. So yes, my intention is to discourage/eliminate opportunities for griefing. I'm sorry if that's an aspect of the game you enjoy.

 

What they are doing isn't griefing.  It's PvPing.  You're the one trying to grief other players, just because you don't enjoy how they play, (which Cryptic Studios and then Paragon Studios added to the game).

[macskull]

5 minutes ago, Alpha-One said:

Again I can't empathize with someone who enjoys griefing other players. So yes, my intention is to discourage/eliminate opportunities for griefing. I'm sorry if that's an aspect of the game you enjoy.

And yet again (what is this, the eleventy-fifth time it's come up in this thread alone) attacking players in a PvP zone isn't griefing. If you want the badges/temp powers/whatever from a PvP zone but aren't willing to accept the risk of getting them you could either 1) not get them or 2) come back later or on a different server. The entire reason those badges/temp powers/whatever are in PvP zones is to get people into PvP zones. The best part is, not a single thing you can get in a PvP zone is required to play the game.

 

EDIT: Also worth pointing out that the apparent stance of the GM team back on live, and the GM team here as well, is that attacking other players in PvP zones is not griefing. If you're getting repeatedly teleported into geometry that you can't get out of by another player then you might have a case (and even then that's barely arguable since there are many ways to prevent that from happening) but just being attacked by another player while in the zone? Nope, sorry.

 

EDITx2: The "getting attacked by other players when I don't want to be" argument is weak at best simply because 1) free server transfers exist and servers that aren't Indomitable have virtually empty PvP zones and 2) even on Indomitable the zones are mostly empty aside from RV.

Edited June 13, 2020 by macskull

[MrsAlphaOne]

Look, badgers are gonna badge, PVPers are gonna PVP.  Gankers are gonna gank, that is what it's gonna be.  Like really what is the thrill/skill of staying in hide then ASing someone getting a Heavy?  No skill, EZ mode seal clubbing.  That's griefing, especially going on and on and on...on the same person because you want them to get mad.   

"Imma make the carebear go away"

 

So, the solution is simple,

 

remove the badges.  remove the temp powers.  remove ANYTHING that will bring the carebears into the zone.  *done*  But then the poor Stalker players that have absolutely no fucking skill won't have anything to do.  I dont' feel bad.

[Alpha-One]

Just now, Apparition said:

 

Would you be perfectly fine with PvE being taken away outside of instances?  'Cause that's essentially what you're asking for, in reverse.

 

There is absolutely nothing in the PvP zones that you need for PvE.  Not even for accolades now.  I get The Atlas Medallion and Portal Jockey blue side, and then go back red side.

 

Now if there's things in the PvP zones that you want... well, them's the breaks.

I would simply stop playing, I don't play multiplayer shooters or other competitive multiplayer games, and I hate PvP based MMOs (Aion, Archeage, etc). And I'm saying this AFTER trying them and give them a good go. I don't enjoy it and I'm certain I'm not alone. If City of Heroes was a PvP focused game I would never have started playing it. As you're saying removing PvE from the game, or making it all open PvP, would just make me uninstall the game. If removing the PvP from the game entirely would cause someone to quit I'd be perfectly OK with that.

[macskull]

2 minutes ago, MrsAlphaOne said:

But then the poor Stalker players that have absolutely no fucking skill won't have anything to do.  I dont' feel bad.

If you're dying to a single Stalker using AS (an interruptible attack with a 4-plus-second animation) plus a followup attack or two (likely 2-3 seconds worth of animation time) you might want to re-evaluate which of you is the bad player.

Edited June 13, 2020 by macskull

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, Alpha-One said:

I would simply stop playing, I don't play multiplayer shooters or other competitive multiplayer games, and I hate PvP based MMOs (Aion, Archeage, etc). And I'm saying this AFTER trying them and give them a good go. I don't enjoy it and I'm certain I'm not alone. If City of Heroes was a PvP focused game I would never have started playing it. As you're saying removing PvE from the game, or making it all open PvP, would just make me uninstall the game. If removing the PvP from the game entirely would cause someone to quit I'd be perfectly OK with that.

 

So no one should take anything you post on this forum from this point forward seriously.  Got it.

[Alpha-One]

Just now, macskull said:

If you're dying to a single Stalker using AS (an interruptible attack with a 4-plus-second animation) plus a followup attack or two (likely 2-3 seconds worth of animation time) you might want to re-evaluate which of you is the bad player.

The stalker has stealth beyond the perception cap, I know I tried to make a blaster with capped Perception to try to thwart stalkers, still couldn't see them. But enjoy that mechanic if you like it.

[macskull]

2 minutes ago, Alpha-One said:

If removing the PvP from the game entirely would cause someone to quit I'd be perfectly OK with that.

There it is again...

 

I think in-game roleplaying is silly but I would never ask for it to be removed because I know other players enjoy it. I think badge hunting and the "gotta catch em all" mentality is silly but I would never ask for it to be removed because I know other players enjoy it. I think the Flight travel pool is awful but I would never ask for it to be removed or outright replaced because I know other players enjoy it.

 

See the pattern here?

[Alpha-One]

Just now, macskull said:

There it is again...

 

I think in-game roleplaying is silly but I would never ask for it to be removed because I know other players enjoy it. I think badge hunting and the "gotta catch em all" mentality is silly but I would never ask for it to be removed because I know other players enjoy it. I think the Flight travel pool is awful but I would never ask for it to be removed or outright replaced because I know other players enjoy it.

 

See the pattern here?

I see you think you're a better person than I, just because my preferences rub you the wrong way. I think the PvP zones offer an outlet for griefers that shouldn't be in the game. Zones that were added 2 years into the game's life. Yes I think they should be removed, not because I think PvP is silly, but because I think it brings the wrong kind of players into the game. The kind that should stick to Fortnite and CoD to get their kicks. If you feel that statement includes you, then I suggest you do some soul-searching.