Questions about Necro/Thermal

[Xandyr]

Hi all, and thanks in advance.

 

  I've done every MM primary, and have my faves ( Beast/Time, Demon/Sonic, Thugs/Cold). My first Necro was paired with /Dark. Not sure what I did wrong, but the combination just wasn't....fun. I have a DP/Dark Defender, and that combo is a blast...but back on topic.

 

TL;DR

 How do you slot the Necro pets? And what's the best Incarante Powers to go with Necro/Thermal?

 

 

  I've decided to give Necro another shot...this time paired with /Thermal. Now I know I'm not going to be setting the world on fire and taking down anything and everything solo... i just want to enjoy the pairing and offer great support on teams.

 

 Having said all that, what's the "typical" way of slotting these dumb zombies? I plan on using Soul Extraction for my

"mule" (the + pet defense, +pet resistance, +pet regen).

 I figured in Zombies and GKs, I'd use the MM ATOs, and have an Achilles' Heel in GK. What about the Lich? Slot that bad boy with To Hit Debuff/Accurate To Hit Debuff?

 I'm not all gung ho about slotting as many procs as possible into my pets...1,maybe 2. I feel confident in how I am going to slot all the powers from /Thermal.

 

 And as far as Incarnate Powers, what's the best option here? Go for one that increases Healing? 

 

Appreciate any and all feedback!

 

[Riverdusk]

Not saying it is the best (I'm still tweaking really), and I'm necro/sonic, but I went somewhat with what you have in mind so far and didn't go super proc heavy. 

Zombies: 5 Mark of Supremacy and an Overwhelming Force Chance for Knockdown 

Grave Knights: 5 Soulbound (gets them the BU proc) and an Achilles Heel.  Before getting purples you can use 5 of any pet set here really that gives bonuses you like + the Achilles.

Lich: 4 Command of the MM and 2 Cloud Senses (including the damage proc).  

Soul Extraction: The other 4 special pet IO's and 2 extra Call to Arms

 

I find it really hard to fit in full sets of either of the MM ATO's.  Even if not going proc heavy, every pet benefits a lot from at least 1 proc so you are limited to 4-5 slotting the MM sets, you just have to miss out on some of those extra personal resistances they offer at the 5th and 6th slot.

 

For incarnate don't know that you'd need more healing or to enhance it.  I'd think thermal would do well to stand on its own there, but I'm not super familiar with it.   I went resilient to maximize the resistance shields (cardiac was another option if I was still having end issues), barrier, diamagnetic (helps add even more tohit debuffing to all of their attacks), and hybrid support.

 

As much as people poopoo on the MM attacks, I also recommend at least taking gloom.  It is one of the best (if not the best) MM attack you can take.  In that I went 3 thunderstrikes and 3 damage procs (cloud senses, gladiator, Apocalypse).  As it is my only healing I also took life drain and between the two attacks anyway, I find it really helps speed up taking down the tough single targets (bosses, EB's, AV's)....and gives me something more to do.

 

Looks like @seresibyl3 has a necro/thermal build posted just a little while ago here so you might check that out.  That one looks good too.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Riverdusk

[seresibyl3]

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

For incarnate don't know that you'd need more healing or to enhance it.  I'd think thermal would do well to stand on its own there, but I'm not super familiar with it.   I went resilient to maximize the resistance shields (cardiac was another option if I was still having end issues), barrier, diamagnetic (helps add even more tohit debuffing to all of their attacks), and hybrid support.

 

Looks like @seresibyl3 has a necro/thermal build posted just a little while ago here so you might check that out.  That one looks good too.

^_^

I did end up going Vigor core - but primarily because I wanted zombies to hit and because I am constantly spamming my own attacks and wanted some end relief without having to get ageless (and didn't care for cardiac). If I were using less attacks myself I would have done musculature... but I play a very active style and would be out of endurance very quickly otherwise.... 

[Coyote]

11 hours ago, Xandyr said:

Now I know I'm not going to be setting the world on fire

 

Of course not, it's the Zombies who you'll be setting on fire 😛

 

Also, if attacking with personal attacks for a Necro MM, always get the Theft of Essence +End proc into Life Drain. Running that as part of a regular attack cycle is like having a second slotted Stamina in terms of endurance recovery.

[Xandyr]

32 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

Of course not, it's the Zombies who you'll be setting on fire 😛

 

 

I wondered if anyone would catch that 😆

[Xandyr]

So, I ended up slotting the Lich with 4 Cloud Senses (including the damage proc) and 2 Blood Mandates (ACC/DAM, ACC/DAM/END). 

 The zombies are 6 slotted with Superior Command of the MM (with the pet +AoE Def).

 Grave Knights have the Achilles Heel proc and 5 of the Superior Mark of the MM. The pet +Resist/+Regen IO is slotted in Soul Extraction, along with the other Pet +Resists/+Defense.

 My shields have 4 Aegis in them (one of the shields have a 5th slot for the Unique Aegis IO).

 Both heals are 6 slotted, as is Maneuvers. I used Thaw for another proc mule.

 

 Ran some missions last night, and I was pleasantly surprised. The shields and heals kept all pets alive, and they didn't do too bad as far as damage goes. I think this combo works out a bit better than Necro/Dark (at least for me). I did enjoy teaming and dishing out shields and heals.

 

 Now to work on Incarnate slots...

[seresibyl3]

Maybe try moving around slots a bit so you can put a bit more procs in the pets overall -- it really does do a significant chunk of damage...

 

[kelika2]

No to all of that.

 

Zombies:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

Knights:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

Lich:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

 

There are 3 resist aura IOs giving +10% resist to all and that 30% total stacks well with your Thermal shields

There are 3 def aura IOs, giving two being 5% to all, and one being 10% to aoe

[Riverdusk]

4 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

No to all of that.

 

Zombies:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

Knights:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

Lich:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

 

There are 3 resist aura IOs giving +10% resist to all and that 30% total stacks well with your Thermal shields

There are 3 def aura IOs, giving two being 5% to all, and one being 10% to aoe

Well, you also have soul extraction so there really is no need to try and fit all 6 aura IO's into your regular 3 pet powers.  Even if you want to deck out soul extraction and really enhance it well, you'd still be able to fit at least a couple of the special IO's there.  The IO auras are always on, even if the soul extraction pet isn't going.  You could then put in some of the procs already mentioned (like achilles and cloud senses) to your regular pets.  Unless you are trying to go for a build that skips soul extraction all together.

 

Interesting idea to use some Hamis though, I always forget about them.

 

 

[seresibyl3]

31 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

No to all of that.

 

Zombies:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

Knights:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

Lich:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end blood mandate, 1 end/heal hami, 2 auras

 

There are 3 resist aura IOs giving +10% resist to all and that 30% total stacks well with your Thermal shields

There are 3 def aura IOs, giving two being 5% to all, and one being 10% to aoe

Horrible ineffective slotting

[kelika2]

2 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

Well, you also have soul extraction

Since your pets wont be invulnerable you can still 4/6 Call to Arms (skip dmg/end and aura) and 1 regular damage and 1 regular recharge IO for Soul Extraction.  Or you can put Command of the Mastermind RECHARGE/+AoE def aura in place of the regular recharge IO and free up a slot for the Lich for:

 

Lich:  2 acc/mez hamis, 1 dmg/mez hami, acc/dmg/end blood mandate, dmg blood mandate, 1 aura

 

This slotting gets maximum Mez, dmg and acc out of the Lich.  Please note that Mez/whatever hamis are universal.  It will hold longer, immobilize longer and fear longer.  Remember this if you ever make a Merc mastermind.

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

Lich:  2 acc/mez hamis, 1 dmg/mez hami, acc/dmg/end blood mandate, dmg blood mandate, 1 aura

 

This slotting gets maximum Mez, dmg and acc out of the Lich.  Please note that Mez/whatever hamis are universal.  It will hold longer, immobilize longer and fear longer.  Remember this if you ever make a Merc mastermind.

 

Um, okay, but... the main effect of the Lich is -ToHit debuffs. I prefer to put Cloud Senses into it for great set bonuses, a damage proc, and enhancing the -ToHit. Its damage base is low enough that enhancing it isn't a great benefit, and while mezzing is nice, the Fear will get broken a lot by the other henchmen attacks, while the -ToHit won't. Unless you're running a set that already has a lot of -ToHit (Dark or maybe a Tankerminding Stormie), I think enhancing the -ToHit is more effective.

[kelika2]

11 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

Um, okay, but... the main effect of the Lich is -ToHit debuffs.

i dont want to log in to check the numbers but between unable to control what he does when i dont want to rely on mostly -5% tohits.

also remember that high level enemies resist debuffs

[Nyghtmaire]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

i dont want to log in to check the numbers but between unable to control what he does when i dont want to rely on mostly -5% tohits.

also remember that high level enemies resist debuffs

At level 50, the Lich has the following -ToHit powers/attributes (unenhanced):

 

1. dark blast - 9.38;

2. Torrent - 9.38;

3. Life Drain - 9.38;

4. Tenebrous Tentacles - 9.38; and

5. Fearsome Starr - 18.75(!!!).

 

You're correct that the level shift will negatively impact these numbers. But since there is no other way to effectively raise pet defense beyond unique auras (10% to all, 25% to AOE) and Maneuvers (~4.05%) on a resistance set (like thermal here), this is an amazing option. AOE is a killer, especially in defensive mode. Flooring ToHit, especially minion and lieutenant level, smooths out the incoming damage by allowing the resistance levels to reduce a smaller number of hits all around. With Necro pets’ own self-heals along with secondary healing, it is a very layered approach playing to the strength of the set. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Nyghtmaire

[Hopestar]

On 6/19/2020 at 2:53 PM, Xandyr said:

So, I ended up slotting the Lich with 4 Cloud Senses (including the damage proc) and 2 Blood Mandates (ACC/DAM, ACC/DAM/END). 

 The zombies are 6 slotted with Superior Command of the MM (with the pet +AoE Def).

 Grave Knights have the Achilles Heel proc and 5 of the Superior Mark of the MM. The pet +Resist/+Regen IO is slotted in Soul Extraction, along with the other Pet +Resists/+Defense.

 My shields have 4 Aegis in them (one of the shields have a 5th slot for the Unique Aegis IO).

 Both heals are 6 slotted, as is Maneuvers. I used Thaw for another proc mule.

 

 Ran some missions last night, and I was pleasantly surprised. The shields and heals kept all pets alive, and they didn't do too bad as far as damage goes. I think this combo works out a bit better than Necro/Dark (at least for me). I did enjoy teaming and dishing out shields and heals.

 

 Now to work on Incarnate slots...

Both heals are 6 slotted with what? I'd 6 slot 1 with Preventative Medicine and 5 slot the other with Panacea (all but the proc which I would hope is in Health)
4 Cloud Senses is a good idea, same with Acc/Dam, but listen to something crazy. What about adding 2 Dam/Range HOs for 80 range cones?

 

Level 1: Zombie Horde -- SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(3), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(3), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(7)
Level 12: Grave Knight -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(13), TchofLadG-%Dam(13), ShlBrk-%Dam(15), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15),
Level 18: Soul Extraction -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(19), EdcoftheM-PetDef(19), SvrRgh-PetResDam(21), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(21), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(23)
Level 26: Lich -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(27), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(27), CldSns-%Dam(29), HO:Centri(29), HO:Centri(31)

 

As for incarnates:
Alpha: Intuition/Musculature Radial/Cardiac Core > Resilient Core > Spiritual Radial/Vigor Core > Everything else, it comes down to what you want, more damage, higher resist shield, or healing.

Judgement: Whatever you want for flavor. Pyronic Core will do the most damage, Ion will hit the most targets, and the others are just fun to use.

Lore: Again, choose for flavor.
Interface: Degen Core or Reactive Radial are the best 2, but they'll all work for minions since you have a lot more hits going on than any other AT.
Destiny: Lacking any and all protections for yourself, Clarion is an excellent choice, or Barrier if you want to chance just not getting hit by mez in the first place.
Hybrid: Assault Radial (You have to have it going before you summon) or Support Core (use it any time).

Edited June 25, 2020 by Hopestar

[Nyghtmaire]

19 minutes ago, Hopestar said:

4 Cloud Senses is a good idea, same with Acc/Dam, but listen to something crazy. What about adding 2 Dam/Range HOs for 80 range cones?

I love the dam/range idea. Would the pet AI for the Lich cause it to move out of supremacy range? Nothing that pet management /goto couldn’t handle, but I’ve never even considered this approach.

[Hopestar]

Yeah you should probably watch out for it even though it technically should snap to you if it hits the edge of your Supremacy range, but if anything it should stay in your circle more since Tenebrous Tentacles would be at 56 range from 40 and I'm pretty sure they made it so pets don't target outside of 100 range from you (poor pointless Merc sniper range).

[Xandyr]

@Hopestar, I believe the heals have 4 Numina's (heal/end/rech, heal, heal/end, heal/rech) and 2 Miracles (heal/rech, heal/end/rech). Gets me the bonus to my healing and extra end recovery. If my memory serves me well, that is.