Sentinel v. Blaster

[Lockpick]

I have a level 50 DP/Ninjitsu Sentinel and several DP Blasters.  I just happened to be running the 1st DA arc on my DP/Devices Blaster and then the Sentinel as I try to finish their Incarnates and I noticed the time to complete the mission was pretty close.  It made me wonder if the disparity between the classes are overblown.  I tend to think the Blaster pulls ahead significantly, but I wasn't sure if any testing has been done against gameplay as opposed to just numbers in mids.  I decided to do some testing, but don't want to go to far if this has already been done.  My thought is that maybe the survivability of the Sentinel might make up for the lower damage.  I tend to doubt it because I think Blaster can be very survivable, but maybe as you scale up notoriety it makes a difference.  I am thinking about doing the following runs and tracking the times all the way to +4/8.  If this has already been done, please let me know, so I don't waste my time.

 

 

AT	Primary	Secondary	Notoriety Level	Hero Equivalent	Time
Blaster	Dual Pistols	Devices	0	1	9:08
Sentinel	Dual Pistols	Ninjitsu	0	1	9:25
Blaster	Dual Pistols	Devices	1	2
Sentinel	Dual Pistols	Ninjitsu	1	2
Blaster	Dual Pistols	Devices	1	3
Sentinel	Dual Pistols	Ninjitsu	1	3
Blaster	Dual Pistols	Devices	1	4
Sentinel	Dual Pistols	Ninjitsu	1	4

 

I can't figure out how to delete this table, so please disregard.

 

[nihilii]

I don't think this has been done. I think it would be interesting to see.

 

In my own "testing", my Sents outpace my non-Fire Blasters and break even with my Fire Blasters. Quotes because said testing is too haphazard to draw sure conclusions, even for just me specifically. I hope you go on with your project so I can find motivation to be more structured with mine. 🙂

[marcussmythe]

I can see this.  Soloing, the Sentinels greater resilience could allow it to live ‘dangerously’, piling up crowds and hammering away - whereas the blaster must be more circumspect.

[Hedgefund]

I'm going to guess the Blaster will pull away when team size increases due to Sent aoe target caps.  That's assuming the Blaster has a build with bonuses to survive the return fire but... they do. 

[oldskool]

18 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

I'm going to guess the Blaster will pull away when team size increases due to Sent aoe target caps.  That's assuming the Blaster has a build with bonuses to survive the return fire but... they do. 

I think the real reasons is going to be how Devices interacts with the build.  Sure, the AoE target caps are going to help, but that isn't really a full story.  If this is same DP/Devices that Lockpick posted in the Blaster sub it has 45% defense to S/L/E/R.  

Things that could muddy the waters: 

 

1) Targeting Drone.  This grants 80% damage to the first attack.  Also, this is slotted with Gaussian's proc which a DP/Nin build cannot do without Tactics.  Even with Tactics, the Sentinel will not have the proc rate of Targeting Drone in a solo test.  

2) Trip Mine.  Trip Mine does more damage than Empty Clips or Bullet Rain on either AT.  

3) Defiance BS.  Trip Mine grants a high amount of Defiance for clean up efforts.  Hail of Bullets, despite its damage bug, is also going to grant a high amount of Defiance.  

4) Alpha slot.  In this case, the DP/Devices build has Musculature Core T4 as a goal.  Is that in actual play yet?  Is it in play for the Sentinel yet?  

5) Does the Sentinel build use any damage procs?  It won't stop the Blaster from mowing down mass targets faster, but it will help the Sentinel with bosses.  

 

Other things that aren't taken into account.  DP/Devices can regenerate, but it doesn't heal.  DP/Nin has more control over its two bars without inspirations being necessary.  Nin has far more compressive mez resistance, but that may not be a big deal for this test.  The DP/Devices build in question doesn't have Clarion in the plan, but it is unknown if it is currently using it or not.  The Knives of Vengeance aren't exactly CC heavy.  

[Haijinx]

On 7/13/2020 at 2:23 PM, Hedgefund said:

I'm going to guess the Blaster will pull away when team size increases due to Sent aoe target caps.  That's assuming the Blaster has a build with bonuses to survive the return fire but... they do. 

In real play the inevitable multi-Manuevers spam from your team-mates make survivability issues moot on most maps. 

[Lockpick]

I ended up not doing this testing, because I got sidetracked in trying to get some of 50s that are not T4 up to T4.  I am still interested in seeing the outcome, but it is less of a priority.

 

oldskool,

 

These are the builds I am using.  I checked against the characters on Live for accuracy.  Both have soft-capped defenses to certain areas.  I think you are right on Trip Mine.   Maybe a better test would be with my DP/NT blaster? He is soft-capped to S/L/E/N/R, so is pretty sturdy as well.

 

On 7/16/2020 at 10:11 AM, Haijinx said:

In real play the inevitable multi-Manuevers spam from your team-mates make survivability issues moot on most maps. 

 

I was assuming he meant the notoriety levels of getting to +4/X8.

 

Here are the in game builds I was using.

 

2 Glocks (DP/Devices)

Soft-cap to S/L/E/R

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

2 Glocks: Level 50 Natural Blaster
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Devices
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Pistols -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 1: Toxic Web Grenade -- EnfOpr-Acc/Rchg(A), EnfOpr-Immob/Rng(34), EnfOpr-Acc/Immob/Rchg(36), EnfOpr-Acc/Immob(36)
Level 2: Dual Wield -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(7), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 4: Empty Clips -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(5), Artl-Dam/Rech(5), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(13), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(15), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(25)
Level 6: Swap Ammo
Level 8: Bullet Rain -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(9), Artl-Dam/Rech(9), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(13), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(15), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(25)
Level 10: Targeting Drone -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 14: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Smoke Grenade -- HO:Lyso(A)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(19), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(31)
Level 20: Field Operative -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), DctWnd-Heal(36), Prv-Heal(37), PrfShf-EndMod(37), SynSck-EndMod(43), PrfShf-End%(45)
Level 22: Kick -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(45), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 26: Piercing Rounds -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(27), Artl-Dam/Rech(27), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(29), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(29), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(31)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(43), Rct-ResDam%(46)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(34)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 38: Gun Drone -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Trip Mine -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Victory Rush -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(48), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Prv-Absorb%(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 6: Chemical Ammunition
Level 6: Cryo Ammunition
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Void Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Carnival Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
------------

 

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Gunfighter (DP/Ninjitsu)

Soft-cap to M/R/AoE

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Gunfighter: Level 50 Natural Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Pistols -- SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprOppStr-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprOppStr-Rchg/+Opportunity(36)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(11), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(11), Rct-ResDam%(48), Krm-ResKB(48), Ksm-ToHit+(48)
Level 2: Dual Wield -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(7), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Dcm-Build%(36)
Level 4: Empty Clips -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(31), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(37)
Level 6: Shinobi-Iri -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Bullet Rain -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(37)
Level 14: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Seishinteki Kyoyo -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(43), PwrTrns-+Heal(46)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(19), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(23), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Prv-Heal/Rchg(45), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(45), Prv-Absorb%(46)
Level 22: Swap Ammo
Level 24: Danger Sense -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 26: Suppressive Fire -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(27), UnbCns-Dam%(27), GldNet-Dam%(29), Apc-Dam%(34), GldJvl-Dam%(42)
Level 28: Bo Ryaku -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(29)
Level 30: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(34)
Level 35: Blinding Powder -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(40), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(40), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(40), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(42), CrcPrs-Conf%(43)
Level 38: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(39), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(39), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Kuji-In Retsu -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(5), PwrTrns-+Heal(9)
Level 22: Cryo Ammunition
Level 22: Incendiary Ammunition
Level 22: Chemical Ammunition
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ageless Total Radial Invocation
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 1: Opportunity
Level 50: Void Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Cimeroran Core Superior Ally
------------

 

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[oldskool]

13 hours ago, Lockpick said:

These are the builds I am using.  I checked against the characters on Live for accuracy.  Both have soft-capped defenses to certain areas.  I think you are right on Trip Mine.   Maybe a better test would be with my DP/NT blaster? He is soft-capped to S/L/E/N/R, so is pretty sturdy as well.

You're not going to ever pull off apples to apples so what you have is fine.  

You could just make note of their differences and design your test to around that.  

 

For example, on paper your DP/Nin actually has better DPS on a single target than the Blaster does.  I'm serious on this.  I know someone will read that and wish they could stone me for it, but it is real stuff.  It takes Defiance to drive the Blaster's performance higher with that build, AND how you leverage the secondary.  You've got Gun Drone's cool down low enough you could pull a second one out before the first expires.  As long as the summon lives it is going to inflate your ST DPS effectiveness alongside Defiance.  That's assuming you don't take Opportunity into account, but Defiance is guaranteed to be more consistent.  Since you're not testing specifically on bosses this consistency of the Defiance effect is relevant information to test for time. 

I think the real question here is, how much time is saved due to those bolstering effects?  That's a good basis for the test.  

 

Your DP/Nin has slightly faster cooldowns on its AoE and that includes Hail of bullets.  Your DP/Dev has more options including Piercing Rounds and Trip Mine.  That is on top of the expanded target caps native to the Blaster AT.  Once again, the question becomes do all of these tools shorten time-to-kill (hypothetically it should) and if so, how much?  

You could measure the times by limiting the use of Blaster powers like Trip Mine, but that isn't really a good use of the test.  I don't think it is interesting to find out if a Blaster with its right arm tied behind its back is somehow equal to a Sentinel.  I think most people can see that Blasters should have an edge in doing damage, but the real question is just how much does it save time.  

Anyway, both builds look fun and this concept to test is pretty interesting.  I don't have anything comparable to pull of myself as I don't play Dual Pistols on a Blaster as a ranged-only build.  If I were to say that my own DP/MC build out damages my DP/SR build that has as much to do with Martial Combat powers as it does with target caps. 

Edited July 18, 2020 by oldskool