Is leadership range more for tanks?

[cohRock]

Today my level 33 tank was teamed with two brutes.  I noticed that my Assault and Tactics showed up for them before their Maneuvers and Tactics would buff me.  The detailed info for all our leadership powers said that they all have a radius of 60 feet, which was probably right for the brutes.  But my tank seemed to buff them at about 100 feet.  Does anyone know if this is a bug or simply incorrectly documented behavior?  It would make sense to me that leadership on tanks and defenders would have a larger range than other archetypes.  Their primary job is to protect teammates (though in different ways).  So giving them a larger range would be one way to accomplish this.

 

BTW, one of the brutes was level 50 and the other was 36.  This wold seem to eliminate a mechanic where range gets larger with character level.

[GastlyGibus]

I can't say for certain as I've not tested it, but Tanker's Gauntlet increases the range on their AoE's with a few exceptions as part of the homecoming changes to Tankers. I don't know if that extends to power pools, but if it did, that would be why you're getting a longer range.

[kiramon]

I still see 60 in the power descrip, for whatever thats worth 

[macskull]

If it is getting buffed from Gauntlet it wouldn't show in the power attributes for individual powers since Gauntlet's bonus is a global "proc" that is applied after the fact (this also helps out Tankers because proc calculations continue to use the non-boosted radius).

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, GastlyGibus said:

I can't say for certain as I've not tested it, but Tanker's Gauntlet increases the range on their AoE's with a few exceptions as part of the homecoming changes to Tankers. I don't know if that extends to power pools, but if it did, that would be why you're getting a longer range.

 

Range and Radius are different mechanics, though.  And Range buffs don't increase Radii.  Equipping Intuition Core Paragon (Alpha slot), Intuition Radial Paragon(Alpha slot) or Clarion Radial Epiphany (Destiny slot) would be the easiest and fastest way to test whether there's a bug allowing Range buffs to affect Radii.

 

55 minutes ago, macskull said:

If it is getting buffed from Gauntlet it wouldn't show in the power attributes for individual powers since Gauntlet's bonus is a global "proc" that is applied after the fact (this also helps out Tankers because proc calculations continue to use the non-boosted radius).

 

And this would make it easy to test on a number of archetypes.  If it affects one global proc, it should affect others.

 

That said, 100' is a 66.67% increase over the base Radius, a figure which, to the best of my ability to discern, is only possible with Incarnate abilities, or specific buffs like Boost Range (plus something else buffing Range, as Boost Range tops out at 59.6%), neither of which is available to a level 33 tanker (that i know of).  What's the value for the Range buff from Gauntlet?

[macskull]

24 minutes ago, Luminara said:

And this would make it easy to test on a number of archetypes.  If it affects one global proc, it should affect others.

 

That said, 100' is a 66.67% increase over the base Radius, a figure which, to the best of my ability to discern, is only possible with Incarnate abilities, or specific buffs like Boost Range (plus something else buffing Range, as Boost Range tops out at 59.6%), neither of which is available to a level 33 tanker (that i know of).  What's the value for the Range buff from Gauntlet?

Gauntlet is a 1.5x multiplier, which would make 60ft Leadership toggles into 90ft. That being said, I don't think anything other than Gauntlet currently affects radius and arc. Range bonuses only buff range, not radius or arc (though you can make the argument that the longer range on cones makes their effective area larger, it's still the same arc).

Edited September 8, 2020 by macskull

[kiramon]

I’ll give this a test tomorrow 

[kiramon]

Well, it definitely does increase the range to 90. Go tanks?

 

(Dom vs tank, the max range at which maneuvers appears on the target)

[cohRock]

Thank you for the analysis and testing, folks.  So gauntlet extends radial powers by 50%.  Nice!  I still kinda think defenders should get the same Leadership range bonus, but I'll gladly accept what we have.

 

Hmm, I wonder if a tank with Ice Melee has his Ice Patch radius extended from 10 to 15 feet.  A controller's Ice Slick would still beat it, at 25 ft., but 15 ain't nuthin' to sneeze at.  And a fire tank's Blazing Aura would expand from 8 to 12 feet. -- same with Spines:Quills and Stone:Mud_Pots.  I think if I were to build a farmer knowing this, he'd be a tank, not a brute.

 

Irradiated Ground (Radiation Melee) seems to have a different, non-radial mechanic.  I wonder if its effective thickness is also affected by gauntlet.

Edited September 8, 2020 by cohRock

[macskull]

Gauntlet radius/arc buffs do not apply to all powers - as a general rule the buffs do not affect armor set or pool powers and even in melee sets there are powers which specifically ignore the mechanic (Spine Burst and Footstomp are two I can think of off the top of my head). The fact that leadership toggles are getting the buff is probably a bug.

[Pzn]

2 minutes ago, macskull said:

Gauntlet radius/arc buffs do not apply to all powers - as a general rule the buffs do not affect armor set or pool powers and even in melee sets there are powers which specifically ignore the mechanic (Spine Burst and Footstomp are two I can think of off the top of my head). The fact that leadership toggles are getting the buff is probably a bug.

I don't know if it's consistent but I've noticed that gauntlets increased radius does apply to some primary powers on tankers.  The DoT auras on my dark and bio tanker have an increased radius.  So does ground zero and radiation therapy/dna siphon/dark regen.

[EmmySky]

21 hours ago, cohRock said:

Thank you for the analysis and testing, folks.  So gauntlet extends radial powers by 50%.  Nice!  I still kinda think defenders should get the same Leadership range bonus, but I'll gladly accept what we have.

 

Hmm, I wonder if a tank with Ice Melee has his Ice Patch radius extended from 10 to 15 feet.  A controller's Ice Slick would still beat it, at 25 ft., but 15 ain't nuthin' to sneeze at.  And a fire tank's Blazing Aura would expand from 8 to 12 feet. -- same with Spines:Quills and Stone:Mud_Pots.  I think if I were to build a farmer knowing this, he'd be a tank, not a brute.

 

Irradiated Ground (Radiation Melee) seems to have a different, non-radial mechanic.  I wonder if its effective thickness is also affected by gauntlet.

I have a fire/spines farmer and a spines/fire farmer....even if there are increased radii for the tank, the brute is still faster.

[macskull]

When page 4 was on the test server I ran a few arcs with a Rad/Fire Brute and Fire/Rad Tanker with essentially identical builds and my results showed that even with the radius and target cap buffs for the Tanker, the Brute was still faster, though not by as much as previously. The higher Brute damage cap still outweighs the increased radius/target cap. The earlier versions of the page 4 changes (double radius, 600% cap) had the Tanker pulling ahead but those got reined in (1.5x radius, 500% cap) before it went live.