Did Chilling Embrace get a nerf?

[Solarverse]

It just feels a bit off ever since coming back to the game. I have not checked the stats until now and see that is only has -32% Recharge? That is such a minimal amount when compared to when if I am standing next to an NPC using the same thing my powers go on about a -500% Recharge...or at least it feels that way. I checked the other AT's and notice that they also have a -32% Recharge Debuff and I am thinking to myself here, shouldn't the Tanker's primary have higher values than the Scrapper secondary?

 

I mean, I guess it's possible that it has always been this way, however, I played Ice a lot on Live in the days and it sure feels like the -Recharge in the set is almost pointless today when you compare it to how the set felt on live. And it's possible if it did change, this change was on live and I just didn't put it all together until now....or, it is possible that the Tanker Primary for Chilling Embrace has always only had a minor -32% Recharge component.

[macskull]

According to the version of City of Data from the internet archive Chilling Embrace was -32% rech even back on live. Whatever modifier is used to handle recharge (I thought it was melee_slow but that seems to not be it since Chilling Embrace also has -32% on Brutes even though their melee_slow value is lower) is identical between Scrappers and Tankers so it's not a primary vs secondary thing but rather an AT modifier table thing. It's also worth pointing out that the recharge floor is -75%, or 4x normal, so -32% is getting enemies almost halfway there.

[Vanden]

I think it was, in fact, reduced a long time ago. They reduced the -Recharge and added a -Damage effect, since Ice Armor Tankers had to take big alpha strikes and the -Recharge alone wasn't doing anything to help with that.

[Solarverse]

6 hours ago, macskull said:

According to the version of City of Data from the internet archive Chilling Embrace was -32% rech even back on live. Whatever modifier is used to handle recharge (I thought it was melee_slow but that seems to not be it since Chilling Embrace also has -32% on Brutes even though their melee_slow value is lower) is identical between Scrappers and Tankers so it's not a primary vs secondary thing but rather an AT modifier table thing. It's also worth pointing out that the recharge floor is -75%, or 4x normal, so -32% is getting enemies almost halfway there.

Good information, appreciate that.

[macskull]

8 hours ago, Vanden said:

I think it was, in fact, reduced a long time ago. They reduced the -Recharge and added a -Damage effect, since Ice Armor Tankers had to take big alpha strikes and the -Recharge alone wasn't doing anything to help with that.

I can't find anything in old patch notes specifically about reducing the -rech, but it looks like -dam was added in Issue 5 and boosted to a higher value in Issue 6.

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, macskull said:

I can't find anything in old patch notes specifically about reducing the -rech, but it looks like -dam was added in Issue 5 and boosted to a higher value in Issue 6.

It wouldn't be so bad if when we slot Slow enhancements that it actually had an effect on the -Recharge. Makes me wonder if Slow Enhancements at one time did affect it? I just can't shake that mobs are attacking more frequently than what they used to way back when. I even put together an Ice/Spines Tank to try and get that recharge down a bit more, but it only adds another 8%. Not sure if that stacks or not...I know Icicles does not even have a -Recharge, Slow or any other secondary effect, it's just straight forward lethal damage which I personally find very disappointing considering how much endurance running that Toggle costs.

 

The only other two AoE Damage Toggles that do nothing but straight forward damage is Blazing Aura (again, I find disappointing, it should at least do a DoT or have some type of debuff effect) and Death Shroud (which confuses the hell out of me why it doesn't have a -ToHit Debuff...the Ghost version sure does and their version is OP as hell!)  which again does straight foward damage. Every other power set for Tanks that is an AoE Damage Toggle also comes with a nice debuff. Why are Dark, Fire and Ice neglected in this department? As fun as a set that it is, there are many aspects about Ice that is just disappointing. I guess that's a gripe for another day though since it has little to do with the topic.

[macskull]

6 hours ago, Solarverse said:

It wouldn't be so bad if when we slot Slow enhancements that it actually had an effect on the -Recharge. Makes me wonder if Slow Enhancements at one time did affect it? I just can't shake that mobs are attacking more frequently than what they used to way back when. I even put together an Ice/Spines Tank to try and get that recharge down a bit more, but it only adds another 8%. Not sure if that stacks or not...I know Icicles does not even have a -Recharge, Slow or any other secondary effect, it's just straight forward lethal damage which I personally find very disappointing considering how much endurance running that Toggle costs.

 

The only other two AoE Damage Toggles that do nothing but straight forward damage is Blazing Aura (again, I find disappointing, it should at least do a DoT or have some type of debuff effect) and Death Shroud (which confuses the hell out of me why it doesn't have a -ToHit Debuff...the Ghost version sure does and their version is OP as hell!)  which again does straight foward damage. Every other power set for Tanks that is an AoE Damage Toggle also comes with a nice debuff. Why are Dark, Fire and Ice neglected in this department? As fun as a set that it is, there are many aspects about Ice that is just disappointing. I guess that's a gripe for another day though since it has little to do with the topic.

Recharge slows are specifically unaffected by enhancements and buffs because they'd be ridiculously OP otherwise, especially considering how few attacks NPCs have and how little slow resistance NPCs tend to have.

 

It's worth pointing out of the six armor sets with damage auras half have secondary effects (Stone, Elec, Bio) and the other half don't (Fire, Ice, Dark) so it's not like there's a precedent one way or the other and with the possible exception of Bio the secondary effects of those damage auras don't necessarily bring a whole lot to the set.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

It's worth pointing out of the six armor sets with damage auras half have secondary effects (Stone, Elec, Bio) and the other half don't (Fire, Ice, Dark) so it's not like there's a precedent one way or the other and with the possible exception of Bio the secondary effects of those damage auras don't necessarily bring a whole lot to the set.

Crap, you're right. For some reason I was counting Spines' Quills which swayed the numbers a bit in my head. But yeah, that is a secondary attack power, not a primary defensive power. Which now begs the question, why would a Tank even have a Damage aura if the Tank already has a Debuff Aura? The whole point of the Primary set is to mitigate damage, so where does it make any logical sense that a Tank gets a power that does nothing but Toggle AoE Damage? You could say to hold aggro with, but then that leaves Ice in question because it already has Chilling Embrace, so it doesn't need Icicles for that.

 

Sorry, things in my head have to add up logically or I tend to dwell on it until my brain can find a way to make logical sense of it.

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Solarverse