Which sets would you like to see for Domis / Trollers?

[Nightmarer 2]

Well, title says it all. I know this is much easier said than done but hey, one can dream, right? These are the sets I’d like to see for Dominators, Controllers or both. Apologies in advance for not making names but English is not my native language and it is kinda hard for me doing so). Also, some of them would most likely require new animations and I don’t have the slightest clue if this can be done but again, one can only dream:

 

Dominator Primary:

- Illusion Control (hell yeah!)

 

Dominator / Controller Primary:

- Wind Control (I think it was in the makings)

 

- Water Control (I think this one was also in the makings)

 

- Some sort of “Poison” or “Toxic” control, basically, the usual stuff based in toxic / lethal dmg (not necessarily in that order):

 

1. ST immob
2. ST Hold
3. PBAoE Immob
4. Toggle (toxic dmg / def debuff)
5. Targeted AoE (-regen / def debuff)
6. Targeted AoE Hold
7. Location AoE (Toxic dmg / def debuff / slow)
8. Foe Targeted Summon toxic fumes (pets)
9. Main Pet (Something along the lines of The Toxic Avenger)

 

 

Dominator Secondaries

- Poison Assault (again, mix of toxic / lethal dmg)

1. ST Ranged
2. ST Melee
3. Snipe
4. Melee Cone
5. Build Up
6. PBAoE
7. ST Ranged
8. Melee AoE
9. Close Targeted AoE

 

-Brimstone Assault (Fire and or Negative dmg, depending on the attack)

1. ST Ranged (Corruption)
2. ST Close (Lash)
3. Build Up
4. Snipe (whip)
5. Close Cone (Crack Whip)
6. PBAoE
7. ST Ranged
8. ST Melee
9. PBAoE

 

-Weapon Assault (Smashing / Lethal dmg mainly) Ideally with either Dual Pistols or Assault Rifle animations (or both, being able to choose any just for animation effect. For Melee attacks, guess the animation of Brawl when holding a weapon could work here.

 

1. Ranged ST
2. Melee ST
3. Ranged Cone
4. Build Up
5. Ranged ST
6. Targeted AoE
7. PBAoE
8. Melee ST
9. Ranged ST

 

 

I know this is probably impossible. I know other servers have implemented Air and Water Control but tbh, I play in HC so I don’t really know / care how well these work in other servers.

 

Anyway, I just thought I’d share and I’d honestly like to know what sets people would like to see in Dominators / Controllers (or just Dominators and then we’ll see about trollers :))

[krj12]

No opinion on Dominators, but for Trollers Wind and Water Control.

 

I'd love something a bit more esoteric called Aquatic or Sea Control - which would be a hybrid of Plant,  Water,  and Dark Controls.   ( i.e. Writhing seaweeds and Tentacles like Plant/Darkness control,   

Water spouts,  Whirlpools like water blast, but with fish swimming around in it, etc - you get the gist )   Probably a bit more ambitious than the prior two though. :)

 

[BrandX]

I would love Illusion Control on a Dominator, just for concept reasons.  As far as I know however (not a big time Dom player myself) Illusion would be terrible for Domination.  So, if things had to be changed up, I'd be okay with it, as long as I got the ability to use Illusions 🙂

 

I've used it as a Troller back on live and I just feel it'd be more fun to use with an assault set. 🙂

[Nightmarer 2]

1 hour ago, BrandX said:

I would love Illusion Control on a Dominator, just for concept reasons.  As far as I know however (not a big time Dom player myself) Illusion would be terrible for Domination.  So, if things had to be changed up, I'd be okay with it, as long as I got the ability to use Illusions 🙂

 

I've used it as a Troller back on live and I just feel it'd be more fun to use with an assault set. 🙂

Also,, the +rchg domis also pursue for permadom would also pave the way towards perma PA so it's a win-win scenario. I hate that most times I need to get compromises with certain powers because of needing +rchg for permadom but here, you get double benefit in exchange for that extra rchg compromise

 

[BrandX]

13 minutes ago, Nightmarer said:

Also,, the +rchg domis also pursue for permadom would also pave the way towards perma PA so it's a win-win scenario. I hate that most times I need to get compromises with certain powers because of needing +rchg for permadom but here, you get double benefit in exchange for that extra rchg compromise

 

I do realize the double +RCH benefit would be nice.

 

I do wonder if an idea would be to move Phantom Army to Tier 9 (still keep it able to me made permanent) and add in a new ability that gives Domination build up.  Maybe an attack animation that conjures a phantom to single target attack the target and then disappears?

 

Not sure if such an animation would work, as it might be sort of pet based instead of just the animation of the attack, and I'm not sure how that would work with domination, if at all.

[...]

Illusion doms would be amazing. I honestly don’t think the set would need to be changed at all. Just port as is. 
 

Some may say that the set won’t benefit enough from domination. But realistically it has 3 powers which would (single target hold, single target confuse, aoe confuse). This is very par for the course, as most sets have 3-4 powers which benefit from domination. No ground effect benefits from domination! 
 

Example: Earth has single target immob (lol), aoe immob (less useful than quicksand in most scenarios), single target hold and aoe disorient. So really just 2 useful powers that benefit from domination. Electric control is similar (chain confuse only dominates on the first target, ground sleep doesn’t benefit at all). Some sets are better, but you get the idea. 

 

Anyway, I’d also like to see “energy control.” To match energy assault. 

[oedipus_tex]

Until recently I had a giant white board in my home office that said:

 

CELESTIAL CONTROL

 

with a list of possible powers and ideas. 

 

Alternative names would be Astral Control or Galactic Control. Basically this is a mix of powers of undefined origin you might associate with a demigod, galactic entity, Lovecraftian alien, or anyone whose powers aren't clearly defined. I think it would be a good contrast to the very strongly elemental sets we currently have, and a way to have a second powerset that deals Negative Energy damage (I see it as a mix of Neg Energy + Cold). 

[Normal Thomas]

Illusion Control is pretty unique to Controllers I think. There would need to be a lot of retooling to get the set to function with the Dominator archetype. It's a control set with 3 pets and 2 invisibility powers and a high damage attack. This leaves three powers that could benefit from domination and none of them are moderate recharge group controls like a group immobilize, stun, confuse, fear etc. Hard to make it Dominator friendly without completely changing the nature of the set.

 

Wind Control was pretty close to completion before shutdown. That's probably be the most feasible to implement in game. However, if feasability wasn't an issue, I'd love to see a magnetism control or technopathy (technology control) powerset.

[oedipus_tex]

Illusion Control seems to me like it may need to be split into Illusion Control (dominator version) and Illusion Assault.

 

Spectral Wounds, Group Invisibility, and Phantom Army go to the Assault set, with the strength of the rest of the attacks balanced around the value of PA. 

 

Replace Spectral Terror with a spherical version of Fearsome Stare.

 

Replace Spectral Wounds with a single target immobilize, any will do. Maybe it randomly picks an illusory element from fire, ice, or electric.

 

Replace Phantom Army with whatever dominate-able AoE you think works. There aren't currently any cone shaped Stuns in a control set, that could be a possibility. There are also no PBAoE click Confuses or Sleeps.

 

Having Illusion Control keep Improved Invisibility is fine and within the rules for control sets for Dominators (e.g. Plant has Spirit Tree).

Edited December 30, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Blackfeather]

Slapping this down as usual. 🙂

[Nightmarer 2]

1 hour ago, Blackfeather said:

Slapping this down as usual. 🙂

Me likey Insect control

[...]

9 hours ago, Normal Thomas said:

This leaves three powers that could benefit from domination and none of them are moderate recharge group controls like a group immobilize, stun, confuse, fear etc. Hard to make it Dominator friendly without completely changing the nature of the set.

Many dominator primaries have problems with not benefiting from domination. Earth (earthquake, volcanic gases), electric (jolting chain, static field, synaptic overload [only 1st target dominated]), fire (bonfire), darkness (shadow field), gravity (dimension shift, impact mechanic), ice control (ice slick, slows in general).

 

Some sets are more effected than others, but the "not domination friendly" argument doesn't hold water; many sets are currently not domination friendly. And dominators =/= domination. Dominators = control + damage. Illusion control, as is, provides control in the form of super awesome taunting pets.

 

8 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Illusion Control seems to me like it may need to be split into Illusion Control (dominator version) and Illusion Assault.

 

Spectral Wounds, Group Invisibility, and Phantom Army go to the Assault set, with the strength of the rest of the attacks balanced around the value of PA. 

 

Replace Spectral Terror with a spherical version of Fearsome Stare.

 

Replace Spectral Wounds with a single target immobilize, any will do. Maybe it randomly picks an illusory element from fire, ice, or electric.

 

Replace Phantom Army with whatever dominate-able AoE you think works. There aren't currently any cone shaped Stuns in a control set, that could be a possibility. There are also no PBAoE click Confuses or Sleeps.

 

Having Illusion Control keep Improved Invisibility is fine and within the rules for control sets for Dominators (e.g. Plant has Spirit Tree).

Overall I think of Phantom Army as a soft control power, and therefore a better fit in the primary. The only pet doms get in their secondary at current is voltaic sentinel, which has it's... problems.

 

PA remaining in the primary would allow for more primary to secondary pairings.

 

That said, I'd take PA in an assault set and play the shit out of, too.

[...]

9 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Replace Spectral Terror with a spherical version of Fearsome Stare.

 

Replace Spectral Wounds with a single target immobilize, any will do. Maybe it randomly picks an illusory element from fire, ice, or electric.

 

Replace Phantom Army with whatever dominate-able AoE you think works. There aren't currently any cone shaped Stuns in a control set, that could be a possibility. There are also no PBAoE click Confuses or Sleeps.

A PBAoE immobilize doesn't yet exist, either, and could fit nicely in a set with SI in the primary.

[oedipus_tex]

21 minutes ago, Vooded said:

Overall I think of Phantom Army as a soft control power, and therefore a better fit in the primary. The only pet doms get in their secondary at current is voltaic sentinel, which has it's... problems.

 

PA remaining in the primary would allow for more primary to secondary pairings.

 

That said, I'd take PA in an assault set and play the shit out of, too.

 

 

I'd prefer it in an Assault set to mix things up a bit. Then you could play Fire Control, Electric Control, etc with some version of Phantom Army. The rest of the Assault set would be balanced around you getting PA. It wouldn't need to be the exact same PA Controllers get. Maybe the three pets would be spread among multiple powers and different in other ways.

Edited December 30, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[...]

2 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I'd prefer it in an Assault set to mix things up a bit. 

Ya the more I think about it, the more I could go either way. 

 

I doubt we'll see it anytime soon though. Sounds resource intensive. On an unpopular AT. When there are a 1000 egregious balance issues. And they can't recruit developers because of the NDA for the talks. 

 

One can dream though. 

[Outrider_01]

Phantom Army could be changed to act like Haunt in Dark, a single target temporary pet attack.

[Normal Thomas]

8 hours ago, Vooded said:

Many dominator primaries have problems with not benefiting from domination. Earth (earthquake, volcanic gases), electric (jolting chain, static field, synaptic overload [only 1st target dominated]), fire (bonfire), darkness (shadow field), gravity (dimension shift, impact mechanic), ice control (ice slick, slows in general).

 

Some sets are more effected than others, but the "not domination friendly" argument doesn't hold water; many sets are currently not domination friendly. And dominators =/= domination. Dominators = control + damage. Illusion control, as is, provides control in the form of super awesome taunting pets.

That's true but there are plenty more powers in those sets that do benefit from domination (especially cause all of those sets have a group immobilize). Small blemishes in otherwise very congruent sets. The same cannot be said for Illusion Control which is systematically reliant on pets to provide its own unique form of control (best exemplified with Phantom Army). @oedipus_tex is definitely on track with how the set would have to be reworked.

 

[...]

1 hour ago, Normal Thomas said:

Small blemishes in otherwise very congruent sets.

 

That set defining abilities do not benefit from the class defining inherent is much, much more than a small blemish. I'd argue that this is a serious design flaw. 

 

Electric control only benefits from domination on the generic holds and immobs that most sets get. 4 powers. Illusion control has 3 powers that would benefit from domination. This is not the chasm that you make it out to be. 

 

Your example that all sets benefit from domination on the aoe immobilize is a little... weird. How often do you actually cast your aoe immob on the dominators you play? Does the extra duration actually make a difference, vs casting again or using it for aoe damage? Using the single target hold as a example would have been much more convincing...

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Vooded
Clarity

[Normal Thomas]

21 minutes ago, Vooded said:

Your example that all sets benefit from the aoe immobilized is a little... weird. How often do you actually cast your aoe immob on the dominators you play? Does the extra duration actually make a difference, vs casting again or using it for aoe damage? Using the single target hold as a example would have been much more convincing...

 

I uh don't play Dominators. I prefer Controllers. But even with Controllers in the span of about 90 seconds or so I will have cast a group immobilize atleast a couple of times. I will have probably cast my hold more though.

[...]

8 minutes ago, Normal Thomas said:

I uh don't play Dominators. 

I rest my case. 

[ClawsandEffect]

Illusion Control for Dominators could use one minor tweak to make it work. Replace Grant Invisibility with an AoE Immobilize, confuse, or sleep power. 

 

In my experience, Grant Invisibility is the most skipped power on Illlusion Controllers, so altering the set to replace it for a Dominator port shouldn't upset anyone. 

[oedipus_tex]

I wish Dominator powers that summoned psuedo pets worked like Shadow Field does. That would help Electric and Ice and have an impact on a potential Illusion Control.

 

Basically when you summon Shadow Field, the first pulse of the power Dominates but subsequent pulses do not. I'd like to see other similar powers updated to work similarly:

• For Electric Control:
  • Static Field: Add a 20ft radius Mag 3 Sleep for ~5 seconds (enhanceable) with the Domination! text
• For Earth Control:
  • Volcanic Gasses: Add a 20ft radius Mag 3 Hold for  ~7 seconds (enhanceable) with the Domination! text
• For Illusion Control:
  • Spectral Terror: Add a 20ft radius Mag 3 Terrify for ~7 seconds (enhanceable) with the Domination! text

Edited December 31, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[...]

5 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I wish Dominator powers that summoned psuedo pets worked like Shadow Field does. That would help Electric and Ice and have an impact on a potential Illusion Control.

 

Basically when you summon Shadow Field, the first pulse of the power Dominates but subsequent pulses do not. I'd like to see other similar powers updated to work similarly:

• For Electric Control:
  • Static Field: Add a 20ft radius Mag 3 Sleep for ~5 seconds (enhanceable) with the Domination! text
• For Earth Control:
  • Volcanic Gasses: Add a 20ft radius Mag 3 Hold for  ~7 seconds (enhanceable) with the Domination! text
• For Illusion Control:
  • Spectral Terror: Add a 20ft radius Mag 3 Terrify for ~7 seconds (enhanceable) with the Domination! text

So. Much. Yes.

 

Would be nice if synaptic overload dominated on the entire chain as well. 

[oedipus_tex]

23 minutes ago, Vooded said:

So. Much. Yes.

 

Would be nice if synaptic overload dominated on the entire chain as well. 

 

Agreed. I consider that a "must fix" issue. 

[...]

On 12/31/2020 at 8:02 AM, ClawsandEffect said:

In my experience, Grant Invisibility is the most skipped power on Illlusion Controllers, so altering the set to replace it for a Dominator port shouldn't upset anyone. 

I'd likely use GI mainly as a lotg mule, and perhaps if the defense bonus stacked with SI (can't recall atm). Which is probably a good reason to remove/change. 

 

On 12/30/2020 at 11:53 AM, Outrider_01 said:

Phantom Army could be changed to act like Haunt in Dark, a single target temporary pet attack.

We already have that though. Why replicate a power?

 

Speaking Personally, I want PA on a dom to experiene an iconic power that I'm very nostalgic about In a new play context. I wouldn't want it changed too much, which is why @oedipus_texsuggestion to put it in the assault set and balance the rest of the secondary around PAs damage (no snipe, no cone for example) is actually a really good one. 

On 12/29/2020 at 10:31 PM, oedipus_tex said:

Replace Phantom Army with whatever dominate-able AoE you think works. 

What about a location based confuse? Call it illusion chamber, or chamber of confusion, or some derivative thereof. 

 

Give it a nice visual impact. I'm thinking something like faraday cage or the force field status protection bubble. Something that makes it clear where the effect ends. 

 

Let it dominate on the first tick. Let it tick often enough and the confuse duration be enhanceable so that it could keep a boss confused if slotted to 95% confuse duration. 

 

Let it be "just perma" at high recharge. Something like 30 second location duration with 2 min cooldown. 

 

Give it a reasonable size location based effect. Smaller than seeds of confusion and mass confusion likely. 

 

Let it notify mobs.  

 

Under those conditions I think it would be balanced (easier to balance location based confuse duration than the "confuse is the best mez but considered the worst by some so it has the longest duration" situation we're in right now). And incredibly thematic. 

 

But keep deceive as an illusion control power; mind control is the only current troller/dom set with 2 confuses, but would remain king/queen of non-notify. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Vooded
Forgot a word