New Hero Story Arc

[Ukase]

On 1/4/2021 at 9:46 PM, Orange Dragon said:

Solo. And I had the mission and leveled doing radios before running it. So the mission was at level 23 and I had hit 24. No changes to difficulty. As far as I'm concerned this content is completely unbalanced. In addition, the dialogue you are given if you fail the penultimate mission is just ridiculous. 

I can't speak about how failing this mission impacts the feel of the arc. I agree, there were some mission objectives that could have been made more clear. 
I had zero problems on my 2 blasters, corruptor or tank with those zombies exploding on me, in fact, I was thrilled because I didn't have to defeat them. They commit suicide, and they dealt me next to no damage. I was wondering why they were even there. (all were done solo)

I think many of us have different arcs/npcs that we don't enjoy dealing with, story arcs we find tedious or ridiculous for one reason or another. Difficulty has yet to be a reason for me, though. If everything is a cake walk, then the game gets dull - and candidly, the game is already quite dull for more than a few of us, as far as difficulty goes. The community is probably the one thing keeping folks who feel this way playing the game. 

I've done each arc a few times, and after having been through them, I didn't find them remotely difficult. 
Thing is - my characters are built fairly well, with what I consider "the best IOs I can buy". I do think if I weren't soft-capped on defense or with max hp, certainly some parts would be quite challenging. If that is the case here - where you're just playing with common IOs, or SOs, or you're on one of the ATs that are late bloomers, or a kheldian that is designed for team play (note that you get buffs for having certain ATs on your team which suggests that premise) yeah, I can certainly see where it would be tough. But "unbalanced"? 

I'd like a little more explanation of how you define that, or what you mean by unbalanced. 

All that aside, sorry you didn't like it. Perhaps you could give an example of an arc you did find balanced, that you enjoyed? 

[Myrmidon]

On 1/6/2021 at 6:22 AM, Piecemeal said:

One of the things I'm going to need going forward is arranging teams across a wide variety of builds during testing. Unenhanced, sort of enhanced, DO's, SO's, some IOs, IO'd out the yinyang, solo vs teams

This and I am very glad that we have a Freebies menu on test to help easily facilitate it.

[Orange Dragon]

9 hours ago, Ukase said:

I had zero problems on my 2 blasters, corruptor or tank with those zombies exploding on me, in fact, I was thrilled because I didn't have to defeat them. They commit suicide, and they dealt me next to no damage. I was wondering why they were even there. (all were done solo)

I've done each arc a few times, and after having been through them, I didn't find them remotely difficult. 
Thing is - my characters are built fairly well, with what I consider "the best IOs I can buy". I do think if I weren't soft-capped on defense or with max hp, certainly some parts would be quite challenging. If that is the case here - where you're just playing with common IOs, or SOs, or you're on one of the ATs that are late bloomers, or a kheldian that is designed for team play (note that you get buffs for having certain ATs on your team which suggests that premise) yeah, I can certainly see where it would be tough. But "unbalanced"? 

So, first, if you read my later posts you will see that I had said I walked back my initial reaction of the arc being unbalanced. I just finished Roy Cooling's arc yesterday, so I agree that the newer missions were being designed to be harder. I expect that has alot to do with the fact that common IOs and IO sets were now a thing and the older missions were designed with only SOs in mind. Not only do you fight Castillo at the end of Roy's final mission, but when he is defeated a Malta Titan shows up to slap you around. So, yeah. 

 

That being said, the fact that you had zero problems is not a fair or realistic comparison. You admit that you are using a character that has the best IO sets you can buy. New content should not be designed for min/maxers. My character is a PB slotted with all level 25 common IOs along with a few of the Luck of the Gambler procs. I would say that is an average build. I shouldn't need max hit points and soft-capped anything to be able to get through a mission. The exploding zoombies are actually going to be a problem for a lot of characters. In the second mission after beating the boss, you are suddenly ambushed. I had just used a self-heal after beating the boss and the explosion took me down to a sliver of health. If I was on my blaster with no self heal, I would have been killed after basically finishing the mission. And, honestly, it felt like a cheap shot. However, you learn the stragedy and adapt for later missions. 

 

My real issue was the dialogue upon failing, which I felt was insulting. I didn't realize that you even got a choice between Hero or Vigilante, as failing defaults to Vigilante and you are basically berated for failing. Piecemeal has already stated that it's going to be looked at with a possible rewrite, so I'm happy to hear that. I may end up rerunning it after all once those changes are released. Perhaps on a sturdier archetype.

[Snarky]

26 minutes ago, Orange Dragon said:

My real issue was the dialogue upon failing, which I felt was insulting. I didn't realize that you even got a choice between Hero or Vigilante, as failing defaults to Vigilante and you are basically berated for failing. Piecemeal has already stated that it's going to be looked at with a possible rewrite, so I'm happy to hear that. I may end up rerunning it after all once those changes are released. Perhaps on a sturdier archetype.

And there it is.  I struggle with Blasters.  But for the strangest reason.  The description says they are ranged.  Ranged?!?  It literally took me years to accept they were designed as Blappers.  Range was an afterthought.  Still, even after fully understanding that, I look at the description.  Where's my ranged T9s?  Where?  Why all the melee attacks?  Why?  So, there we go. Some things will never be right. 

[Coyote]

35 minutes ago, Orange Dragon said:

My character is a PB slotted with all level 25 common IOs along with a few of the Luck of the Gambler procs. I would say that is an average build. I shouldn't need max hit points and soft-capped anything to be able to get through a mission.

 

Sounds like a standard build in the 20s for me, bar a Panacea and the two +Def uniques, maybe. Otherwise, it's probably impossible for an AT without an armor set to cap defenses in the 20s or probably even in the mid 30s, even with the best IOs that you can buy. You'd need to be an exemplared character so you could have slotted more sets for set bonuses, even if you do lose some enhancement values due to exemplaring, in order to be running this arc with soft-capped non-armor characters.

 

I think that story arcs should be balanced around characters leveling up at that level, not around exemplared characters with max slots and full IO set bonuses.

[Snarky]

Yeah, most high end builds depend on Superior versions to top them off.  Even my beloved Invulnerable isnt truly softcapped until everything is topped off at 50.  But seriously, what the heck pre 50 is going to stop Invulnerable with 35% defenses?  Uh, besides Arachnos, Carnies, freaking Rularuu, the PPD with Psi.  Ya know, I need better armor...sigh.

[Ukase]

13 hours ago, Orange Dragon said:

My real issue was the dialogue upon failing, which I felt was insulting. I didn't realize that you even got a choice between Hero or Vigilante, as failing defaults to Vigilante and you are basically berated for failing. Piecemeal has already stated that it's going to be looked at with a possible rewrite, so I'm happy to hear that. I may end up rerunning it after all once those changes are released. Perhaps on a sturdier archetype.

Yeah, I can see how that would rub someone the wrong way. I did a villain arc, and on the second mission, the contact had one word for me. 
"Stupid". 
No next mission immediately popped up, no prompt to reply, (or retaliate). Served me right for going red side in the first place. 

Unfortunately, what you say is probably how things should be - an average build shouldn't have as difficult a time of it as you said. A PB (or Warshade) is literally starved for slots. Usually, you've got 3 forms, but you get the same number of slots, despite having a lot more powers that could use some help. And it's definitely harder at 25 with much fewer slots than exemped from 50. 

I think you're also correct in that a sturdier AT would fare better. Which is a shame, isn't it? Seems like any AT should be able to do the task with the right amount of problem-solving skills and reflexes. 
I hope you'll continue to play despite the lack of enjoyment you had. There's still fun to be had, particularly with the right bunch of folks to join you. 

[GoldenAvariel]

I haven't made it all the way through the hero arc and this thread makes me want to wait to finish it. I have to agree the data-dump was a bit much and I enjoy reading the dialog. The contact had an annoying personality but not everyone can be a Hero cheerleader so that didn't bother me. My only real problem with it so far are the ambushes that literally spawn right on top of  you and explode. They didn't do much (or any) damage most of the time to my tank but it was startling and immersion-breaking (are they teleporters or what?). My wife had a much squishier character and learned to hover after the second time that happened.  We were the proper level for the arc, I think toward the end of the level range, with a combo of SO's and normal IO's.

 

I did the red-side arc solo on a mastermind and I thought it was a lot more fun and made more sense. I've always been a big fan of Doc Buzzsaw and thought her dialog was spot on for her. My only problem with that arc was the hoards of Protectors and the constantly running boss in the Crey mission.  I had to run for the vator and sometimes all the way out of the mission a few times to space out the ambushes and recover, resummon and restock inspirations. But at least those ambushes didn't spawn right on top of me. I do think the prison break mission had some confusing objectives that could be cleaned up maybe but I made it through. That character was also toward the end of the range and outfitted with normal IO's except for some Franken slotting.

 

Since they were new missions we ran them at +0/x1.

Edited January 9, 2021 by GoldenAvariel