New Hero Story Arc

[Orange Dragon]

I don't even know where to begin. Honestly, I'm not willing to waste the time to write a proper review. It's awful. If this was an AE arc I would have one starred it after the first mission or two and stopped playing it. Desperately needs to be edited for content. Clearly designed to be a 'challenging' mission and ends up being ridiculously bad. If this is the 'quality' new content we can expect, I'll stick to the old missions. Hard pass.

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Orange Dragon said:

Desperately needs to be edited for content.

Can you be a bit more specific?

[Coyote]

Huh. I really liked it. Lots of new enemy types, some with new tactics. Some interesting action point events in missions.

The dialogue between the character and the agent was a bit forced for some kinds of characters, but that's about all that I didn't like.

[Snarky]

Are you talking about the new arc (Docc Buzzsaw villain side)  I have only done the Red version nd I thought that rocked with a side of choc cheesecake.  If you are talking about the corny joining a hero club with Flambeaux and the thing that makes mooorp noises I get your point.  Tough to suffer through even as a joke.

[Orange Dragon]

The dialogue, particularly at the beginning, is repetative. Information that should be included, such as the defeat of Vahzilok (if you haven't done the missions in years) is left out. Other information is repeated several times. There is an assumption that you know the lore as well as the person who wrote the story arc. This isn't true for new players or even old players, like myself, who haven't done some of the content for a very long time. The intro dialogue is just overly extensive. Info dumping is not good story telling. 

 

In regards to the beginning missions themselves, ambushes that appear on top of you and then explode when you just finished beating the mission boss is annoying at the very least.

 

If you don't want spoilers, then don't read further ...

 

 

 

 

Penultimate mission with Pathogen:

Reduced health and endurance - check

Boss becomes untouchable during power up - check

Waves of ambushes including enemies that have excellerated movement and then explode on top of you - check

Boss get electric powers that do endurance drain - check

After beating boss you get 5 minute count down to finish or fail mission so no time to heal - check

Fires all over that you have to move through and do further damage - check

Another ambush - check

Unclear objectives - check

Mission in IP on the opposite side of the zone from hospital requiring over a minute to get back to if you die - check

Khelds spawn Quantums for added fun - check

If you fail the mission - THE CONTACT STOPS TALKING TO YOU - check

 

Final mission with Cortex:

Had enough and actually skipped this mission after first failed attempt to fight Cortex since, you know, in addition to fighting a boss with psi damage, he should defintely spawn additional ambushes with exploding enemies during the fight.

 

When you finally turn in the mission to complete the story arc you are chastised for failing the mission with Pathogen and your only choice in completing the mission is to tell the contact that "I'm sorry I failed. I choked." 

 

I choked. Seriously? No. The missions are completely unbalanced. The thing I was most excited about when I heard that Issue 27 was released was the new content. Finally. After all these years. I can't even tell you how disappointed I am. 

 

 

[Orange Dragon]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

Are you talking about the new arc (Docc Buzzsaw villain side)  I have only done the Red version nd I thought that rocked with a side of choc cheesecake.  If you are talking about the corny joining a hero club with Flambeaux and the thing that makes mooorp noises I get your point.  Tough to suffer through even as a joke.

The new Issue 27 hero side mission with Agent Watkins. After my experience with it, I have absolutely no intention on running the villian side mission.

[Snarky]

hmmmm, i ran this at level on my Brute Redside story arc toon , was just the right level when it came out.  Granted this toon was pretty enhanced even at that level, but it wasnt "SO MUCH TOUGHER THAN EVERYTHING I HAVE BEEN DOING"  

 

I do know Redside lore pretty well.  I thought the story just was a marvelous work of moving the plot of Redside into the future.  I wrote a glowing review somewhere on the boards about it at the time.  Just gave me a great feeling the city is still moving on and the lore is getting deeper.

 

Again, I did not find it mechanically challenging.  And i seriously suck at mechanics.  I mean, I am not a good player lol.  No really.  I am still Bruting even though I started playing before fitness pool was inherent and travel powers were unavailable until 6 (hover) and the real travel at like 14. Incarnate trials I have run a hundred times I will look at some days watching another player and be like.  "Oh, thats why we do that..."

 

But yes, If you are not steeped in lore it might mean a lot of nothing to you.  Story I do pay attention to.  That is why I love Redside, dislike Blueside, and hate the politics of Goldside.  This arc was a lot about another deep lore thing in the city.  If you do not care what is happening beneath Sharkhead or why Lord Recluse got his powers then you also wont care much about one of DR Vahziloks Eidolons seeking assistance.

 

When I compare it to the Dreck that is the Hero side joining the w/e Super club at level 4? it is not even close for me.  The villain story arc (contest of death?) was a little better than that horsecrap.  But that is not saying much.

 

THis new story arc I just loved.  Sorry you did not like it though.  Maybe it is a Redside vs Blueside thing.  I struggle to run any Blueside content.  For me, being a Venture Bros style Supervillain and a member of the League of Calamitous Intent is where it is at.  

 

Someday you might look at the Redside version and see if it is any better.  Sigh, and someday I will need to run that Blue...

Just now, Orange Dragon said:

The new Issue 27 hero side mission with Agent Watkins. After my experience with it, I have absolutely no intention on running the villian side mission.

 

[Max Firepower]

We spanked it earlier today.  I was sidekicked up on a low teens toon, only one or two of our six members were on level with no exemped 50’s and so on.  I believe we ran at +2/x8.  Yeah, challenging, but not horrid for us.

 

was this at a high difficulty level, running solo?

[summers]

I absolutely adored the Blue-side story and haven't done Red-side yet. It was very deep in lore and was unique and challenging with diverse missions. I thought it was, for a single player or small RP team, some of the very best content ever written for the game.

 

I don't think it's good for a team though. There's too much narrative for people to sit around during, and only one person can engage in it. But not everything needs to be for every one, or every sized composition.

 

If the same quality can be made into something more team and TF friendly I think Homecoming is in fantastic hands. Piecemeal I think killed it with this story!

[Orange Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Max Firepower said:

We spanked it earlier today.  I was sidekicked up on a low teens toon, only one or two of our six members were on level with no exemped 50’s and so on.  I believe we ran at +2/x8.  Yeah, challenging, but not horrid for us.

 

was this at a high difficulty level, running solo?

Solo. And I had the mission and leveled doing radios before running it. So the mission was at level 23 and I had hit 24. No changes to difficulty. As far as I'm concerned this content is completely unbalanced. In addition, the dialogue you are given if you fail the penultimate mission is just ridiculous. 

[Max Firepower]

Just now, Orange Dragon said:

Solo. And I had the mission and leveled doing radios before running it. So the mission was at level 23 and I had hit 24. No changes to difficulty. As far as I'm concerned this content is completely unbalanced. In addition, the dialogue you are given if you fail the penultimate mission is just ridiculous. 

I will admit I was chatting with my friends more than reading the script.

 

there did seem to be moments of.... “Huh.... I don’t quite get that...” but we moved on.

 

I expect I will run it again, but I will pay attention.

[Orange Dragon]

8 minutes ago, summers said:

If the same quality can be made into something more team and TF friendly I think Homecoming is in fantastic hands. Piecemeal I think killed it with this story!

My feeling is the exact opposite.

[summers]

1 minute ago, Orange Dragon said:

My feeling is the exact opposite.

There's nothing wrong with that, too!

[BurtHutt]

I hate to say it but I didn't care for either side's version. The blue side was worse. I was not the team lead so I didn't get a lot of the dialogue. When there was dialogue, it flooded in and was a lot to take in - just too much. Then you add the run arounds and travelling to various locations...it was just too much. 

 

I was really hoping the Homecoming team would add original stuff as well. Unfortunately, in my opinion, we were given variations of enemy factions that've been around for a around a decade and a half. 

 

Piecemeal did some good stuff here for sure. I don't mean to insult him. Quite the opposite. He learned the system and put it all together etc (and whoever helped him?). I wish I could do that! However, I just didn't enjoy the arcs. 

[Glacier Peak]

I'm honestly happy someone who clearly loves the game and it's lore took the time to weave together such a challenging and rewarding story arc entirely as a self taught volunteer. This arc was on the beta server for many weeks getting tested, it's content revised, and it's scripts edited based on the input from many players. So comparing it to any content made by the legacy paid professional developers is a little unfair. 

 

That being said, I like the way this arc progresses, the Easter eggs it contains both in its dialog and its game mechanics, and the challenges that pop up throughout. 

 

So while I don't agree with your critique, I'm happy you care enough about the game and this content to give your two cents. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[BurtHutt]

29 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I'm honestly happy someone who clearly loves the game and it's lore took the time to weave together such a challenging and rewarding story arc entirely as a self taught volunteer. This arc was on the beta server for many weeks getting tested, it's content revised, and it's scripts edited based on the input from many players. So comparing it to any content made by the legacy paid professional developers is a little unfair. 

 

That being said, I like the way this arc progresses, the Easter eggs it contains both in its dialog and its game mechanics, and the challenges that pop up throughout. 

 

So while I don't agree with your critique, I'm happy you care enough about the game and this content to give your two cents. 

Oh I am a huuuuuuuuge fan of the game. Piece et al did great. However, it was not that fun to play through the arcs. I don't solo so I didn't get a lot of the dialogue etc as it was on the team lead. 

 

Going forward, I'd suggest keeping the text to a minimum and have it viewable to all - if possible. 

[Soyuz]

Is it harder than most of the launch content? Yes. Is it completely unbalanced? Not really. I can't speak for the experience on large teams, but I just soloed it on a pool-power-challenge character and the only real problem was Cortex. Got myself a Shivan for that guy, but looking back on how the fight went I could probably have handled him by just stocking up on purples in advance (or teaming up, but I don't like to inflict my gimp-ness on people).

 

It's a bit like the Night Ward content, or dealing with Malta. You might be able to chew through Council with the difficulty cranked way up, but you'll have to dial it back a bit for some of the tougher enemy groups. No shame in that.

 

As for the dialogue, it's lengthy in places but I preferred it to the old "The Sky Raiders have stolen Weapon Q and must be stopped! They're over there. Go get 'em." approach.

 

Overall I'd give it 4/5. An excellent first effort, I thought.

[Orange Dragon]

Ok. I've had time to sleep on it and mull it over. My problem is more with the dialogue and less with the actual enemies. Do I think the content could use some balancing? Yes. I defeated Pathogen, but used all my resources. This was on a PB with 3 self heals. OK, fair enough. There was a warning to do this on a team, so fine. However the timed exit wasn't challenging. It was overly problematic. Additional mobs spawn in a setting where fires do additional damage and you have to click glowies in a certain order, I think. Not sure since I died and had to slog my way from one end of IP to the other using fly. Even with Quatum Excelleration it took over a minute with a 5 minute countdown. This could have easily been solved by placing a temp hospital right outside the mission with the hazmat team. 

 

The dialogue however is just insulting. I'm not sure what to say here. If you fail the mission, the contact refuses to speak with you. OK. You are able to figure out what to do and finish the arc. However, when you turn in the mission to the hazmat guy and get the cure for the disease you have, you are chastised for failing the mission. You are accused of 'dereliction of duty' and your option to turn in the mission is to tell the contact "I choked". This really feels like the author gets to tell you how crappy your character is for failing the mission. Do I think that was the intention? No. It still comes off that way. Like I said, the dialogue is insulting. 

 

I've played Homecoming on and off for a while, but when I saw that a new big issue had launched with new content, I was SO excited. I created a brand new character and played up to 20 just to get the new mission content. Maybe my hopes were set too high. I get it's all volunteers and I really do appreciate all the hard work they put in because they love the game. But having contacts tell your character that they are a loser is just not cool.

 

One star. Will not play again and will not even bother with the villain side arc. 

[Coyote]

I managed to squeak by the timer on that mission, but I do play at high difficulty, so I didn't think too much of it. So I didn't get to see the "failed mission" dialogue. I also wasn't too pleased with the dialogue at the start of the mission, it feels like the character is given several choices in the dialogue... and then railroaded into selecting the right one. If that was the design goal, I'd have preferred to have the dialogue just tell you what you're doing in the mission. So, dialogue-wise, I agree, it's a bit lacking in some ways.

 

However, I don't think it's all that bad. I mean, it has a LOT of dialogue. With that much content, it's not a surprise that some of it is lackluster... but I'd rather have a lot of writing, than some story arcs that have very little writing, no choices, just "Ubelmann the Unknown" and finding out information after information about him, with little NPC dialogue, no choices, etc. Give me more writing, and I'll deal with the fact that not all of it will be top-notch.

 

For the game mechanics, unquestionably, it's more challenging. It may well require lowering the difficulty level. But I managed it on the usual difficulty for that character, who was a MM (and thus extra vulnerable to all of the AoE fire and Zombicide explosions). Unquestionably, if you switch from Scroll of Tielikku to that arc, the difficulty level will surprise you. However, compare it to the other new arc in the 20s with the cloning, that ends in a fight against Protean... it's only a bit harder, but has an Elite Boss rather than an AV. Although each mission will actually be more challenging, overall it's probably easier to complete this on most characters than the Clone War arc. I mean, a Peacebringer in the 20s trying to fight Protean is likely to end up as sushi. Or fried calamari.

 

Overall, given HOW MANY new and interesting things were put into a single story arc, and comparing it to Task Forces that use all normal mobs, little or no special dialogue, and only a special mob as the end AV, this is definitely way better than the average, IMO.

[Orange Dragon]

10 minutes ago, Coyote said:

However, compare it to the other new arc in the 20s with the cloning, that ends in a fight against Protean... it's only a bit harder, but has an Elite Boss rather than an AV. Although each mission will actually be more challenging, overall it's probably easier to complete this on most characters than the Clone War arc. I mean, a Peacebringer in the 20s trying to fight Protean is likely to end up as sushi. Or fried calamari.

It's interesting that you mentioned Protean. That specific story arc came to mind this morning when I wrote my follow-up and is the main reason I would walk back some of my initial 'unbalanced' review. Someone else mentioned using a Shivan, which honestly I sort of forgot about. But the failed mission dialogue is seriously egregious. There isn't a single other hero arc where the contact basically tells you that you're a lousy hero and your response dialogue is to agree. 

[Hew]

@Orange DragonDumb question. Were you running at 0/1? You know, the expected difficulty for someone running solo, and not trying to slotallthethingsandbeaminigod?

 

For me, blowing all of your inspirations on a cataclysmic fight between you and the notyou is _how this is supposed to work_. Not using inspirations, temps, whathaveyou and STILL churning through content is kind of the antithesis of what I feel this game is all about. Generally we live in this bubble of certainty, where any risk or chance of death is obliterated to the point where there ultimately IS NO risk... I blame a lot of this on set ios. They will never go away.

 

There are a LOT of ways watkins can interact with you, depending on what you do, when, and how. Generally he is always a jerk, but he has lots of variations of jerk you can get. It isn't a one time deal. Running the arc several times is the only way to see all the different possible content/responses he has to offer.

 

The first time I ran this arc, I did it with a total grab bag of people below 20, around 20, and some in their 30s. No incarnates, no 50s. We blew through it, died a bunch, killed a bunch, and had a blast. We did not have preconceived notions about what the content should be, or look like, other than it would NOT be Issue 1 content.

 

Having run all of the Going Rogue content (much of which comes with painful difficulty tags... lots of scars and humiliated incarnates), I can say that these two arcs are right in line with where the game was headed at shutdown. 

 

This arc ranks for me equal to (with some better, some worse bits) to all that content from GR (6, Marchand, et al). It matches what I expect when I play a SSA, be it either WWD, or Pandoras Box. The rewards are pretty nice, it has cool badges.

 

Always Winning is Not Winning At All.  (personal motto)

 

You NEVER get a real feeling of any accomplishment if you know going in it will 100% end in your favor with minimal pain. The 'Cuda mish in Marchand's arc is a great example of steamrolling till you hit a brick wall at 80 mph. In fact, all of the GR arcs have elements that will stomp you into a mudhole. Going for avatar smasher? Better hope your team is diverse and well balanced!

[Coyote]

26 minutes ago, Hew said:

Having run all of the Going Rogue content (much of which comes with painful difficulty tags... lots of scars and humiliated incarnates), I can say that these two arcs are right in line with where the game was headed at shutdown. 

 

That was my feeling also... this arc is a lot tougher than older arcs, but it's in line with arcs from First Ward, actually easier than Night Ward, and comparable to the newer content both blueside and redside. And I prefer having the difficulty raised up with ambushes, weird opponents, and elite bosses, than some really nasty AVs.

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Orange Dragon said:

But the failed mission dialogue is seriously egregious. There isn't a single other hero arc where the contact basically tells you that you're a lousy hero and your response dialogue is to agree. 

 

I do recall a few other missions where the dialogue is annoying. Especially some "rescue so and so" and "prevent this from being destroyed", when I play at +1/x5 in the 20s. Good luck preventing splash damage from destroying the object in the first salvo, or in keeping so and so alive when he jumps into a fight... and then knocks back some mob into the next spawn. So I'm already annoyed that I failed because the idiot NPC got himself killed before my Blaster could save him, and then... the NPC who sent me there tells me how disappointed he/she is with me.

 

And it is really annoying, I agree. Having a possible failure mission, then failing it (especially the first time you see it, when you're unprepared for all the tricks), and then being told off by an NPC for sucking as a hero, yeah, that makes want to reach into the screen and punch some NPC right in their favorite pixels. It is a bit of a dialogue failure here, especially with a pretty difficult mission that is not that hard to fail.

[Orange Dragon]

32 minutes ago, Hew said:

@Orange DragonDumb question. Were you running at 0/1? You know, the expected difficulty for someone running solo, and not trying to slotallthethingsandbeaminigod?

 

For me, blowing all of your inspirations on a cataclysmic fight between you and the notyou is _how this is supposed to work_. Not using inspirations, temps, whathaveyou and STILL churning through content is kind of the antithesis of what I feel this game is all about. Generally we live in this bubble of certainty, where any risk or chance of death is obliterated to the point where there ultimately IS NO risk... I blame a lot of this on set ios. They will never go away.

 

Difficulty was the default setting AND I leveled to 24 before doing the mission, so it was actually set 1 level lower. As I mentioned, I used all my resources i.e. I used most of my inspirations. I don't believe I have any temp powers that could be used. Also, comparing hero contacts to villain and rogue contacts just isn't a fair comparison. While I do agree that newer content was being designed to be harder, it was not being designed to put down your hero if you failed. Villains and rogues have a completely different feel to them. Heroes are supposed to be heroic. My biggest complaint is the dialogue. The contact is a jerk. Fine. But having a hero contact tell your character that they suck is not OK. Full stop. If this is where the writing is heading, then I will not play it. 

[Orange Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

I do recall a few other missions where the dialogue is annoying. Especially some "rescue so and so" and "prevent this from being destroyed", when I play at +1/x5 in the 20s. Good luck preventing splash damage from destroying the object in the first salvo, or in keeping so and so alive when he jumps into a fight... and then knocks back some mob into the next spawn. So I'm already annoyed that I failed because the idiot NPC got himself killed before my Blaster could save him, and then... the NPC who sent me there tells me how disappointed he/she is with me.

Agreed. I just did the Faultline/Fusionette missions while getting to 20. But to be clear, having an annoying contact tell you they are disappointed in you is usually followed up with a "here's how to make it up". I'm obviously paraphrasing here, but the very final turn in mission goes something like this ...

 

Agent Watkins no longer talks to you.

Turn in mission to hazmat guy. Hazmat guys says "Agent Watkins wanted me to tell you that dereliction of duty usually comes with a $10,000 fine and is punishable by blah blah and you really shouldn't even get this cure for the disease you have, but blah blah and standards for heroes is getting higher now so it's OK to tell you that you suck."

Your response dialogue is "I'm sorry I failed. I choked."

 

I didn't choke. I had to fly across the entire zone of IP to get back to get to a 5 minute timed mission. Click glowies in a specific order. Fight mobs that have spawned after I had already cleared to the exit. Oh and the building is on fire and you are forced to pass through damaging zones.