Thugs/Time advice

[Orange Dragon]

Looking for advice on power pools for a Thugs/Time. Currently 30 and was going to respec. I'm thinking Hasten and Super Speed, Leadership for Maneuvers and Fighting for Tough and Weave. I'm planning on getting Mace Mastery so I'm not sure if Fighting is superflous when I would get Scorpion Shield at 41. Would I be better off taking more powers from Leadership? I'm fighting end drain hassles now which I would assume Chrono Shift will alleviate. Originally took Maneuvers and Tactics from Leadership, but find I don't use Tactics due to endurance issues. 

[TheSpiritFox]

I went with leaping, speed, tp for TP friend, leadership, and fire mastery for bonfire. Thugs/time works better as a pet tank than a tankermind due to the complete lack of any form of mez resist or protection, if stuffs attacking you times juncture is getting detoggled. 

[tidge]

I agree with @TheSpiritFox. I have a Thugs MM and I think I'd really have to change the concept to make it a viable Tankermind. I just don't think the Thugs behave well enough to be trusted! However, if you want to stick with it...

 

I wouldn't pass up Tough and Weave. Even with Scorpion Shield you will need more slots to add Global IO pieces (as well as set bonuses).

 

The Endurance issues you encounter are real for MMs. Look for +MaxEnd bonuses (sets, accolades) as well as Endurance discounts from set bonuses. If you want to Tankermind, you need to be able to grab aggro... My observation is that rapid attacks will drain your Endurance faster than anything else. My Tankermind (Robotics) didn't even pick attacks until level 30. My Thugs MM attacks only come from an Epic pool.

 

I should be explicit that I went Bots/Traps for a Tankermind since I had lots of ways to grab aggro before personal attacks, and I could (eventually) leverage the attacks into being AoE knockdowns/debuffs to support the ranged-only Robots. With Thugs/Fire, I generally do keep the Thugs on defensive and I try to draw attention with proc-bomb attacks... but because the Thugs have a mix of close/range, they will very rarely stay near me, so I have a harder time balancing offense (from them) and defense (for myself) with them.

[Crysis]

I have several */Time and Thugs/* MM’s, including a Thugs/Time.

 

On mine I’ve softcapped DEF for S/L/Melee and almost capped S/L resists, thus don’t really find mezz’s land that often.  So I jump into spawn with TJ running and the henchmen on Defensive and they follow me right into the -TOHIT debuffed spawn.  I have slotted Boxing and Cross Punch which both do horrid damage but gives me some additional aggro ability and some soft control.  I also have 190%+ recharge so I can spam the heal as needed.

 

Most of the Thugs/Time builds I see are Ranged DEF soft cap and use Bonfire.  Effective also but I do like to be in melee and tankermind and thematically slugging it out alongside the Thugs feels right.  

[Elthenar]

5 hours ago, Crysis said:

I have several */Time and Thugs/* MM’s, including a Thugs/Time.

 

On mine I’ve softcapped DEF for S/L/Melee and almost capped S/L resists, thus don’t really find mezz’s land that often.  So I jump into spawn with TJ running and the henchmen on Defensive and they follow me right into the -TOHIT debuffed spawn.  I have slotted Boxing and Cross Punch which both do horrid damage but gives me some additional aggro ability and some soft control.  I also have 190%+ recharge so I can spam the heal as needed.

 

Most of the Thugs/Time builds I see are Ranged DEF soft cap and use Bonfire.  Effective also but I do like to be in melee and tankermind and thematically slugging it out alongside the Thugs feels right.  

I do something similar. I use Clarion so CC's are rarely an issue.

 

The thing people forget about Mace Mastery is Power Boost, which is just as important as Scorpion Shield if not more so. Power Boost will add about 6% of defense all to Farsight, which then buffs all your pets and team.  You can also get up to 16% +tohit to the whole team as well. Those two things combined are a big deal. You can get damned impressive defenses on your own and have the Pets soft capped to everything.

[Crysis]

6 hours ago, Elthenar said:

I do something similar. I use Clarion so CC's are rarely an issue.

 

The thing people forget about Mace Mastery is Power Boost, which is just as important as Scorpion Shield if not more so. Power Boost will add about 6% of defense all to Farsight, which then buffs all your pets and team.  You can also get up to 16% +tohit to the whole team as well. Those two things combined are a big deal. You can get damned impressive defenses on your own and have the Pets soft capped to everything.

Yes, I have PB on my Bots/Time, but on my Thugs/Time, I took Soul Mastery for the RES shield.  That gives me two layers of defense.

 

My Thugs are S/L capped without power boosted Farsight.

[iaele]

On 3/2/2021 at 12:18 PM, Crysis said:

Yes, I have PB on my Bots/Time, but on my Thugs/Time, I took Soul Mastery for the RES shield.  That gives me two layers of defense.

 

My Thugs are S/L capped without power boosted Farsight.

Can you please give me your build? Ty in advance.
Alessio

[StrikerFox]

On 2/27/2021 at 7:14 AM, Orange Dragon said:

Looking for advice on power pools for a Thugs/Time. Currently 30 and was going to respec. I'm thinking Hasten and Super Speed, Leadership for Maneuvers and Fighting for Tough and Weave. I'm planning on getting Mace Mastery so I'm not sure if Fighting is superflous when I would get Scorpion Shield at 41. Would I be better off taking more powers from Leadership? I'm fighting end drain hassles now which I would assume Chrono Shift will alleviate. Originally took Maneuvers and Tactics from Leadership, but find I don't use Tactics due to endurance issues. 

 

Consider dropping Maneuvers, avoiding the Leadership pool entirely. Base defense each Enforcer provides is +8.4%, +16.8% total. Add 10% from Edict/CtA and +20% from PB/FS. Pets will be around +46.8% def, already softcap.

 

With Scorpion Shield + PB/FS + Steadfast + Glad Armor, your MM would be softcap to S/L without Maneuvers and Weave as well. Energy defense will be at around +40% which is pretty easy to get if you want to softcap that too (2 slot Basilisk's Gaze, 3 slot Thunderstrike, 5 slot Superior Winter's Bite etc).

 

PB+FS provides more +tohit than Tactics. Also Enforcers have Tactics of their own, so pets won't have much trouble hitting. Though Leadership Tactics provide some confuse/fear protection and Assault provides taunt/placate resistance. In most cases, they're not needed.

 

Could also technically drop Superior Command of the MM +AoE def and still be softcap. I kept it, have it slotted in Gang War as I want it to have a quicker recharge. 

 

 

 

[brasilgringo]

Here's my current Thugs/Time. I went with PowerBoost + Clarion Radial + Farsight, which is putting the pets at 50%+ melee/ranged and 60%+ AOE def, when stacked with the Enforcers' buffs and pet uniques.   

 

My own defenses (on the MM) are also soft-capped for melee/ranged but not AOE (~41%) except when PB is up, as long as I use Clarion+PB.  With just PB+Farsight, they're around 33-37%.  Sure, S/L/E def are 50% though due to Scorp Shield (with PB'd Farsight).

 

That said, it doesn't feel quite as powerful as I'd like. I'm pretty happy with the pet slotting, but I have no attacks so just end up healing and debuffing.  My Necro/FF MM now feels stronger in some ways with the 3 attacks and spectres.  Open to suggestions.

 

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DIrtyHarry_Thugs-Time_MM_LIVE_Fev2023.mxd

Edited February 2, 2023 by brasilgringo

[Meknomancer]

3 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

Here's my current Thugs/Time. I went with PowerBoost + Clarion Radial + Farsight, which is putting the pets at 50%+ melee/ranged and 60%+ AOE def, when stacked with the Enforcers' buffs and pet uniques.   

 

My own defenses (on the MM) are also soft-capped for melee/ranged but not AOE (~41%) except when PB is up, as long as I use Clarion+PB.  With just PB+Farsight, they're around 33-37%.  Sure, S/L/E def are 50% though due to Scorp Shield (with PB'd Farsight).

 

That said, it doesn't feel quite as powerful as I'd like. I'm pretty happy with the pet slotting, but I have no attacks so just end up healing and debuffing.  My Necro/FF MM now feels stronger in some ways with the 3 attacks and spectres.  Open to suggestions.

 

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DIrtyHarry_Thugs-Time_MM_LIVE_Fev2023.mxd 5 kB · 1 download

 

 

I agree on the necro/ff feeling like a much better play. I put that down to page 5 changes. Until thugs/beasts/demons get the same treatment my thugs/time is on a break. Only difference i see in power picks is i took empty clips on mine for the force feedback proc/temporal selection/assault instead of the fighting pool. 

[Crysis]

On 1/28/2023 at 1:39 AM, iaele said:

Can you please give me your build? Ty in advance.
Alessio

 

There's a bunch of different ways to build a Thugs/Time.  I got some inspiration from another poster here on the boards, don't recall whom, and skipped all my personal attacks in favor of going all punchy/kicky.  I stay on BG mode, jump into the middle of spawn with TJ running.  Between my S/L/M softcapped DEF and the -TOHIT of TJ, I eat the alpha and the boys come in gunning and swinging.  Then whomever the Bruiser is pounding on I jump over and do Kick+Punch+CrossPunch repeatedly.  It's fun and Cross Punch is decent soft control.  Plus my +Recharge is bonkers high (hits over 300% at times) so Burnout is up pretty frequently for the fun double GangWar.  I have another variation of this build that goes Leviathan for Knockout Blow to add more punchiness to the character.

 

By comparison, I'm also including an equally strong build that relies on Bonfire to keep the spawn flopping while the thugs mop the floor with them.  That's a more traditional Ranged +DEF softcap build.  A friend of mine in-game herds with this very effectively, basically hopping from spawn to spawn with TJ running to pull aggro, ducks around corner, drops bonfire and then....ducks in a barrel.  Just leave the henchmen waiting around corner using Goto and Passive commands.

 

Very different playstyles, but I love "Stay Classy."  It's basically Ron Burgandy with the News Crew gang doing beatdowns.  I'm obnoxious withe petsayall dialogue during battles lol.

 

"Rick, where'd you get that grenade?"

 

Enjoy, by no means perfect builds for either, but just shows the versatility of the Thugs/TIme powersets.

 

 

Stay_Classy_Alternate_SoulMastery.mxd timeless_beauty_-_Mastermind_Thugs.mxd

Edited February 2, 2023 by Crysis