Tanker/Controller archetype?

[TheLeprechaun89]

So I had an idea of a new archetype that has defensive powers like a defender (not as OP at Tanker or brutes) and secondary as controller primary powers. 
 

It's like a cleric almost, but very little damage dealing if any and very dependent on a team like a controller. They might not die as much as a controller, but they'd be at a stand still if they did missions solo due to little to no damage. I'm thinking more buff/debuff/healing powers only. Basically only things that target your opponents or teammates and no holds and stuff really.  

[MTeague]

All ideas are good to bat around. 

But my personal rule of thumb, which of course not everyone is obliged to subscribe to, is that every powerset pairing should be able to handle every story arc solo, at +1x2 with bosses. That's my minimum threshold before I consider a character "viable".  (I should say that, so far, I've been able to manage that with everything I've thrown at it.... even if a couple characters needed to play Captain Hit-And-Fade and whittle down certain particularly troublesome missions.... even my redside empath/psi defender)

 

But my first impression on reading your post is, "So how do I defeat mobs?"

Teaming is great.  If you like teaming, wonderful. Nothing says you ever have to solo. 

But I think every AT / powerset combo should be able to do so. 

[Steampunkette]

There are two big problems I see, here...

 

1) Controls cannot be a "Secondary" set. They always have to be primary. If they were secondary, you'd have to reduce their magnitude and then you wouldn't be able to stun or hold a Lieutenant without stacking and a Boss without 4-stacking.

 

2) The -glacial- speed of doing anything because you're using double-mitigation.

 

Control is a form of Absolute Mitigation. By stopping an enemy from attacking at all, you mitigate all the damage that enemy would do for the duration of the control, while a Defensive Powerset is a matter of Relative Mitigation. In the sense that you're taking an amount of incoming damage and reducing it by a specific percentage value.

 

You're essentially suggesting an Unkillable Archetype (Outside of possibly AVs)... however it would never be able to meaningfully contribute to AV Fights. And if soloing was possible it would take -forever- to kill enemies, as outside of Gravity and Illusion, most sets have next to no direct damage capability.

[TheLeprechaun89]

46 minutes ago, MTeague said:

All ideas are good to bat around. 

But my personal rule of thumb, which of course not everyone is obliged to subscribe to, is that every powerset pairing should be able to handle every story arc solo, at +1x2 with bosses. That's my minimum threshold before I consider a character "viable".  (I should say that, so far, I've been able to manage that with everything I've thrown at it.... even if a couple characters needed to play Captain Hit-And-Fade and whittle down certain particularly troublesome missions.... even my redside empath/psi defender)

 

But my first impression on reading your post is, "So how do I defeat mobs?"

Teaming is great.  If you like teaming, wonderful. Nothing says you ever have to solo. 

But I think every AT / powerset combo should be able to do so. 

OOPS Wrong quote..

Edited April 14, 2021 by TheLeprechaun89

[TheLeprechaun89]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:54 PM, Steampunkette said:

There are two big problems I see, here...

 

1) Controls cannot be a "Secondary" set. They always have to be primary. If they were secondary, you'd have to reduce their magnitude and then you wouldn't be able to stun or hold a Lieutenant without stacking and a Boss without 4-stacking.

 

2) The -glacial- speed of doing anything because you're using double-mitigation.

 

Control is a form of Absolute Mitigation. By stopping an enemy from attacking at all, you mitigate all the damage that enemy would do for the duration of the control, while a Defensive Powerset is a matter of Relative Mitigation. In the sense that you're taking an amount of incoming damage and reducing it by a specific percentage value.

 

You're essentially suggesting an Unkillable Archetype (Outside of possibly AVs)... however it would never be able to meaningfully contribute to AV Fights. And if soloing was possible it would take -forever- to kill enemies, as outside of Gravity and Illusion, most sets have next to no direct damage capability.

Secondary and primary could be switched for sure, and some damage would be present but not much. You'd still be able to slowly kill your enemies in smaller mobs but without a team you'd just be spending an hour on one mission.

I already said the control powers being reserved to buff/debuff/heals for opponents/team mates.  It'd essentially be a sorta hard to kill true support toon that can actually utilize any of their AOE abilities without dying right away, or gather enemies and buff their team to do more damage...  Or debuff the enemies so the team can fight safely... Or just healing as needed while in the eye of the storm sorta deal.  

Edited April 15, 2021 by TheLeprechaun89

[Vulgaris]

I still want the silly option of a melee/support set or support/melee just so "get up and hug the enemy" sets like poison and radiation could shine a bit more.

[Leogunner]

2 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

1) Controls cannot be a "Secondary" set. They always have to be primary. If they were secondary, you'd have to reduce their magnitude and then you wouldn't be able to stun or hold a Lieutenant without stacking and a Boss without 4-stacking.

#1 is absolutely NOT a rule.  Even if the ultimate position is that a control secondary can't control as good as a primary, part of that is covered by the level gap difference and if that happens to be the case and the magnitude is decreased, you can balance this by having the inherent greatly increase the damage instead.

 

As far as glacial kill speeds, we can obviously look at Controller and see that not only is it viable but in some instances, it's actually very prominent in the meta.

 

Ultimately, this all boils down to how the powers are balanced and while you can cite some rules-of-thumb with regards to powerset specializations and what not, OP, it is certainly not impossible.

 

I consider Controller my least favorite of all ATs due to how clunky and unrealistically its powers are distributed but it could be used as a template on what is going to be needed if you want to round out your idea.  Considering the veritable smorgasbord of out-of-set attacks available to everyone, giving it the mods to utilize them well (thinking around Stalker melee mods and Corr ranged mods) and some kind of inherent that gives them more offense, maybe limited on targets who are controlled similar to Controllers, it might make it workable and as conceptually sounds (i.e. barely) as a current Controller.

[MTeague]

2 hours ago, TheLeprechaun89 said:

I already said the control powers being reserved to buff/debuff/heals for opponents/team mates. 

Wait.  Are you talking the Controller primaries?  (Mind Control, Fire Control, Earth Control, etc?) 

or Controller Secondaries?  (much more of which contain buff/debuff/healing)

[Steampunkette]

I seem to have misunderstood... If you're talking about Buff/Debuff/Heals primary and Defense secondary... yeah. Never gonna happen, Bud.

 

Empath/Defense characters could only harm enemies with Brawl and any Damaging Aura Power they happened to get. Same thing with Poison, Pain Dom, Electric, The list goes on.

[dangeraaron10]

Defense and Control I can see.

 

Damage with holds, procced out holds, damage auras, etc.  Basically the proc monster AT.  Not to mention sets like Gravity and Illusion.

 

Defense and Support?

 

Many oofs.

 

It'd rely largely on its epic pool, which makes for a ghoulish leveling and exemplaring experience.

[tidge]

Fortunata (one of the VEAT) offer mixes of control with melee and/or range... plus the wonders of the team buffs. Obviously you are limited as to what types of controls (from the career path, plus available pools like Patron and Presence) but if you want that sort of play style I think you can have it.

[Steampunkette]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Fortunata (one of the VEAT) offer mixes of control with melee and/or range... plus the wonders of the team buffs. Obviously you are limited as to what types of controls (from the career path, plus available pools like Patron and Presence) but if you want that sort of play style I think you can have it.

Warshades as well!

[Zeraphia]

On 4/13/2021 at 8:54 PM, Steampunkette said:

There are two big problems I see, here...

 

1) Controls cannot be a "Secondary" set. They always have to be primary. If they were secondary, you'd have to reduce their magnitude and then you wouldn't be able to stun or hold a Lieutenant without stacking and a Boss without 4-stacking.

 

2) The -glacial- speed of doing anything because you're using double-mitigation.

 

Control is a form of Absolute Mitigation. By stopping an enemy from attacking at all, you mitigate all the damage that enemy would do for the duration of the control, while a Defensive Powerset is a matter of Relative Mitigation. In the sense that you're taking an amount of incoming damage and reducing it by a specific percentage value.

 

You're essentially suggesting an Unkillable Archetype (Outside of possibly AVs)... however it would never be able to meaningfully contribute to AV Fights. And if soloing was possible it would take -forever- to kill enemies, as outside of Gravity and Illusion, most sets have next to no direct damage capability.

I agree with everything you've said... HOWEVER I think maybe, even though it's not optimal for damage or really any task, maybe some people just want to be extremely tanky and control things even if it slows their progression immensely? Every control set (sans Mind) has a pet for its T9, so I think they'll still be getting *some* damage in there. Controllers themselves do actually make progress and damage with just their controls alone as it is.

 

I do support the suggestion of the AT for its sense of style and because honestly I don't consider control powersets or most defensive powersets to be overpowered.

 

+1

[TheLeprechaun89]

21 hours ago, dangeraaron10 said:

Defense and Control I can see.

 

Damage with holds, procced out holds, damage auras, etc.  Basically the proc monster AT.  Not to mention sets like Gravity and Illusion.

 

Defense and Support?

 

Many oofs.

 

It'd rely largely on its epic pool, which makes for a ghoulish leveling and exemplaring experience.

Or...  Why not both?  😛   I'd personally find making a proper Debuffing tanker that herds and makes the enemies weaker would be fun and add a different dynamic to some teams or leagues.  

[TheLeprechaun89]

On 4/14/2021 at 3:45 AM, Steampunkette said:

I seem to have misunderstood... If you're talking about Buff/Debuff/Heals primary and Defense secondary... yeah. Never gonna happen, Bud.

 

Empath/Defense characters could only harm enemies with Brawl and any Damaging Aura Power they happened to get. Same thing with Poison, Pain Dom, Electric, The list goes on.

As is, sure. But as they've done with other new archetypes, they cane modify the powers within that type. Personally I think it'd be a lot of fun to try and level depending on teams, but also boosting those teams so you can get more XP by clearing missions faster.  It's SUPER easy to make a toon capable of clearing maps solo with the archetypes we have, so I'd actually enjoy something different like this.

I also had an idea I stated before this of having two variants.  One for Defense primary and control secondary, and another with control primary and defense secondary.  They could also modify the powers of the corresponding sets for primary or secondary powers like they did with defenders and stuff. 

[Steampunkette]

1 hour ago, TheLeprechaun89 said:

As is, sure. But as they've done with other new archetypes, they cane modify the powers within that type. Personally I think it'd be a lot of fun to try and level depending on teams, but also boosting those teams so you can get more XP by clearing missions faster.  It's SUPER easy to make a toon capable of clearing maps solo with the archetypes we have, so I'd actually enjoy something different like this.

I also had an idea I stated before this of having two variants.  One for Defense primary and control secondary, and another with control primary and defense secondary.  They could also modify the powers of the corresponding sets for primary or secondary powers like they did with defenders and stuff. 

You're not talking about Control, here, Leprechaun. You're talking about Support.

 

And given that fact I don't even know what you -actually- mean by "Defense Secondary". Do you mean like a scrapper with defensive powersets as their secondary or do you mean a tanker with melee powersets as their secondary?

 

Anyway. The reason it won't happen is that every archetype needs to be able to solo. Even at, like, the BARE minimum levels, they need to be able to run content on their own and do so in a manner that isn't frustrating enough to cause most players to immediately give up on the whole AT. And with this one? They definitely would.

 

If you wanna create a character that "Only Works on Teams" you're free to do that. Might I suggest making a Mastermind with only the primary Attack Powers, then grab the whole secondary powerset, and then Power Pool Buffs like Sorcery, Leadership, and Concealment.

 

Should be good and frustrating without spending dev-time on it?

 

As to the "The Devs can change the powersets!" angle: That's got to be part of your suggestion. Try putting together a few powersets to see how it would function in your mind as a solo character.

[dangeraaron10]

2 hours ago, TheLeprechaun89 said:

Or...  Why not both?  😛   I'd personally find making a proper Debuffing tanker that herds and makes the enemies weaker would be fun and add a different dynamic to some teams or leagues.  

 

So rather than using the current support types like Support, Control or Defense it'd be a hybrid like Assault (Melee and Blast) and Manipulation (Melee and Control).  And I guess Composition which is the secondary powerset category of Guardians (Armor and Support.  Guardians use Assault as their primary)

 

So it's like a Guardian, but instead of Assault/Composition it's Control/Composition.

 

Every AT in the game and ones frequently suggested are a combination of Melee, Blast, Armor, Control, Support, and Pet powerset types.  Two hybrid types being Assault and Manipulation.  Your idea is suggesting a new hybrid powerset type.  That'd be a good start to open your proposal with to clear up confusion.

 

Also, splitting an AT between three roles (not including epic pool powers), you need to figure out which one of these roles your AT excels at and which two get a bit watered down.

Edited April 15, 2021 by dangeraaron10

[HelBlaiz]

An AT with Control sets and Armor sets would have way too much mitigation, I think. It would be the safest of safe options, and would be slow to solo as others have mentioned. An AT with Support sets and Armor sets would be right out, as that would lack any form of solo ability. Now an AT with a hybrid control attack set might, maybe work? With an emphasis on softer control, repel, kd, fear, immob rather than harder control like holds and stuns might work? Maybe not. Its hard to imagine a control/armor AT as anything but Never Die, the Archetype. Sure it can have rubbish damage for balance, but then its not only too safe, it's too slow to be engaging.

[TheLeprechaun89]

40 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

An AT with Control sets and Armor sets would have way too much mitigation, I think. It would be the safest of safe options, and would be slow to solo as others have mentioned. An AT with Support sets and Armor sets would be right out, as that would lack any form of solo ability. Now an AT with a hybrid control attack set might, maybe work? With an emphasis on softer control, repel, kd, fear, immob rather than harder control like holds and stuns might work? Maybe not. Its hard to imagine a control/armor AT as anything but Never Die, the Archetype. Sure it can have rubbish damage for balance, but then its not only too safe, it's too slow to be engaging.

idk why people assume you'd never die.   Defense sets other than Tanker defense sets aren't too hard to defeat.  I also stated it should be soloable but like most controllers, soloing would be a slower and more grueling process than some other AT's. I'm also suggesting a new hybrid type power that is more designed for a cleric style AT. They would be vulnerable to being debuffed, and depending on their armor choice will have various weaknesses.

A lot of the new classes seem to be much the same these days.  With the power creep we've received even the weakest of classes become pretty OP.  I'm suggesting a few AT's that might be harder to play. That's what I expected during live when I unlocked WS/PB but it was instead a much easier and stronger AT to play, But at least during live people had to play to their roles more.  
Trollers had to stay back, Blasters died a lot more (unless they were the FEW Blapper combos that were around then) and a tanker was actually important to some teams.  Now it seems a team full on trollers and blasters can plow through without much effort and no casualties.   I feel they can make some pretty cool AT's that are a bit harder to play to add some more challenge and strategy back in the game.      I mean hell I can't even remember the last time anyone has had to used a pull to defeat a room of enemies when it was SUPER common and usually needed during Live. 

[Steampunkette]

4 hours ago, TheLeprechaun89 said:

idk why people assume you'd never die.   Defense sets other than Tanker defense sets aren't too hard to defeat.  I also stated it should be soloable but like most controllers, soloing would be a slower and more grueling process than some other AT's. I'm also suggesting a new hybrid type power that is more designed for a cleric style AT. They would be vulnerable to being debuffed, and depending on their armor choice will have various weaknesses.

A lot of the new classes seem to be much the same these days.  With the power creep we've received even the weakest of classes become pretty OP.  I'm suggesting a few AT's that might be harder to play. That's what I expected during live when I unlocked WS/PB but it was instead a much easier and stronger AT to play, But at least during live people had to play to their roles more.  
Trollers had to stay back, Blasters died a lot more (unless they were the FEW Blapper combos that were around then) and a tanker was actually important to some teams.  Now it seems a team full on trollers and blasters can plow through without much effort and no casualties.   I feel they can make some pretty cool AT's that are a bit harder to play to add some more challenge and strategy back in the game.      I mean hell I can't even remember the last time anyone has had to used a pull to defeat a room of enemies when it was SUPER common and usually needed during Live. 

Lemme 'splain.

 

Armor Powersets are by nature Relative Mitigation. X amount of damage comes at you, you take Y percentage of that damage. If it's Defense based you're taking full damage from a smaller % of attacks than normal, if it's Resistance based you're taking a smaller % of damage from the normal quantity of attacks. But generally speaking 5% Defense is equivalent to 10% Resistance.

 

The level of power of this form of mitigation is based on whether it is the Primary or Secondary powerset. Tankers have Defense for their Primary, so their archetype gets more Defense/Resistance from their Defensive Powers than, say, a Scrapper does since a Scrapper's Defensive Powers are their secondary. The Tanker also gains earlier access to those powers because of it being the Primary Powerset.

 

The character archetype you're describing, then, Defense/Support, would have Tanker-Like values for their Defenses.

 

Support is also a form of Relative Mitigation. It can be used to apply defensive buffs, offensive debuffs, and healing to offset damage taken either proactively or reactively. They can also offer Offensive Buffs to reduce the amount of incoming damage by Murder.

 

With Support Powers as the Secondary Powerset, you'd be at Corruptor rather than Defender levels of Support. Less total values, and slower access to the full powerset.

 

Control Powers are a form of -ABSOLUTE- Mitigation. While an enemy is Stunned/Held/Asleep/Fearful they are doing 0 damage. So rather than reducing damage by a Relative Value, you're stopping damage altogether. These powers cannot exist as a Secondary Powerset, in total, because of the requirements of Stacking Values to overcome a target's Mez Protection.

 

 

Trying to combine a  Defense Primary with a Support Secondary would result in a character that just stands in front of enemies brawling them and debuffing them forever until the enemies die. Why? Because between the debuffs, the heals, and the armor, the character would be essentially unkillable. Also unable to kill most Elite Bosses or -any- Archvillains due to a lack of damage output capable of overwhelming their Regeneration.

 

Trying to combine a Control Primary with a Defense Secondary would result in a similar situation, where everything is locked down at almost all times and very little damage is being done to the character... but very little damage is being done to the -enemies-, either. Sure, once you got to 32 your fortunes would change, but outside of PLing it would be a nightmare to grind levels.

 

Both of them would be a nightmare. Not because they're too strong. But because they're too boring.

 

ESPECIALLY once you reach Incarnate Levels and everything is dead before your Defense/Support or Control/Defense character can take the time to put out Debuffs, Buffs, or Stack Controls to any useful degree.

 

Does it make sense now?

[HelBlaiz]

Controllers are a very frail AT. They don't have a lot of hit points, only get a token amount of defense or resist with select powerset choices, and are far better at healing others than themselves. They die very quickly if they aren't careful. But that is okay! Their main shtick as an AT is refusing their opposition the ability to attack efficiently. A well played controller can hold two thirds of a typical spawn even at level one.

 

Tanks are an incredibly durable AT. With the right power selection against the right opponents, they can literally do nothing but run their toggles and never die. In more realistic cases, they still take a lot of concentrated fire to bring down. And that's okay! They are literally designed to be the lightning rod for a team, soaking up damage that more fragile ATs would be unable to resist. They're doing their job by refusing to not exist. Any AT with Armor sets has been designed to take more punishment than any AT without them.

 

A control/armor AT would be tough enough to grit its teeth through more damage than any of the non Armored ATs while simultaneously being designed to never see the amount of punishment Armored ATs are built to resist due to an over abundance of active mitigation. That is why we're saying the concept is too safe.

 

As for the new hybrid set, I am not quite sure I understand the image you have in mind. It may help if you give us a brief description of what such a powerset would look like, a quick blurb on this hybrid set's take on Fire and the nine powers it'd grant for example.

[TheLeprechaun89]

1 hour ago, HelBlaiz said:

Controllers are a very frail AT. They don't have a lot of hit points, only get a token amount of defense or resist with select powerset choices, and are far better at healing others than themselves. They die very quickly if they aren't careful. But that is okay! Their main shtick as an AT is refusing their opposition the ability to attack efficiently. A well played controller can hold two thirds of a typical spawn even at level one.

 

Tanks are an incredibly durable AT. With the right power selection against the right opponents, they can literally do nothing but run their toggles and never die. In more realistic cases, they still take a lot of concentrated fire to bring down. And that's okay! They are literally designed to be the lightning rod for a team, soaking up damage that more fragile ATs would be unable to resist. They're doing their job by refusing to not exist. Any AT with Armor sets has been designed to take more punishment than any AT without them.

 

A control/armor AT would be tough enough to grit its teeth through more damage than any of the non Armored ATs while simultaneously being designed to never see the amount of punishment Armored ATs are built to resist due to an over abundance of active mitigation. That is why we're saying the concept is too safe.

 

As for the new hybrid set, I am not quite sure I understand the image you have in mind. It may help if you give us a brief description of what such a powerset would look like, a quick blurb on this hybrid set's take on Fire and the nine powers it'd grant for example.

Ok let me elaborate.   The defense powers of say a defender vs a tanker is completely different.  The value of the powers, and the powers that are available to take/if they are prema toggle or temp toggle can be different etc.  Same with the power from the control tree.  Their power, recharge rate, effectiveness, or availability could be altered for the set or even replaced entirely for some powers.  They could throw in some damage in a few control powers that might not have damage previously but reduced damage.  

I think everyone keeps imagining tanker defenses as in ON A TANKER just copy and pasted on a Controller. Which is not what I'm suggesting and not at all how they make new AT's.   Values would be adjusted and powers altered to make it fair of course. People are very quick to make assumptions and turn down an idea based on their assumptions on here. lol

Thank you for asking for clarification rather than just assuming.  😄

[TheLeprechaun89]

17 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Lemme 'splain.

 

Armor Powersets are by nature Relative Mitigation. X amount of damage comes at you, you take Y percentage of that damage. If it's Defense based you're taking full damage from a smaller % of attacks than normal, if it's Resistance based you're taking a smaller % of damage from the normal quantity of attacks. But generally speaking 5% Defense is equivalent to 10% Resistance.

 

The level of power of this form of mitigation is based on whether it is the Primary or Secondary powerset. Tankers have Defense for their Primary, so their archetype gets more Defense/Resistance from their Defensive Powers than, say, a Scrapper does since a Scrapper's Defensive Powers are their secondary. The Tanker also gains earlier access to those powers because of it being the Primary Powerset.

 

The character archetype you're describing, then, Defense/Support, would have Tanker-Like values for their Defenses.

 

Support is also a form of Relative Mitigation. It can be used to apply defensive buffs, offensive debuffs, and healing to offset damage taken either proactively or reactively. They can also offer Offensive Buffs to reduce the amount of incoming damage by Murder.

 

With Support Powers as the Secondary Powerset, you'd be at Corruptor rather than Defender levels of Support. Less total values, and slower access to the full powerset.

 

Control Powers are a form of -ABSOLUTE- Mitigation. While an enemy is Stunned/Held/Asleep/Fearful they are doing 0 damage. So rather than reducing damage by a Relative Value, you're stopping damage altogether. These powers cannot exist as a Secondary Powerset, in total, because of the requirements of Stacking Values to overcome a target's Mez Protection.

 

 

Trying to combine a  Defense Primary with a Support Secondary would result in a character that just stands in front of enemies brawling them and debuffing them forever until the enemies die. Why? Because between the debuffs, the heals, and the armor, the character would be essentially unkillable. Also unable to kill most Elite Bosses or -any- Archvillains due to a lack of damage output capable of overwhelming their Regeneration.

 

Trying to combine a Control Primary with a Defense Secondary would result in a similar situation, where everything is locked down at almost all times and very little damage is being done to the character... but very little damage is being done to the -enemies-, either. Sure, once you got to 32 your fortunes would change, but outside of PLing it would be a nightmare to grind levels.

 

Both of them would be a nightmare. Not because they're too strong. But because they're too boring.

 

ESPECIALLY once you reach Incarnate Levels and everything is dead before your Defense/Support or Control/Defense character can take the time to put out Debuffs, Buffs, or Stack Controls to any useful degree.

 

Does it make sense now?

I feel like you're assuming the defensive/control powers will just be copy/pastes of their origin AT's which isn't at all what they do for new AT's.  Values would of course be altered and the effectiveness of the defensive and control powers would have to be altered to make it fair.  idk why you'd assume they'd do it like that.  It's entirely possible to make this into an AT that is playable and fun and a new playstyle dynamic.
 

[TheLeprechaun89]

Also I think people are forgetting the negatives from certain powersets.   The energy drain of toggles mixed with control powers that can sometimes be a huge end drain per activation.  Certain defensive sets don't have much MEZ defense and can easily get held and detoggled.  Or confused and suddenly the buffs and debuffs are switched making the team vulnerable.

There's also certain enemies that drain your end on their own that can detoggle you and turn off buffs or debuffs and put you and your team in vulnerable situations too.

It seem pretty fair and playable to me... 

Edited April 16, 2021 by TheLeprechaun89

[Steampunkette]

6 hours ago, TheLeprechaun89 said:

I feel like you're assuming the defensive/control powers will just be copy/pastes of their origin AT's which isn't at all what they do for new AT's.  Values would of course be altered and the effectiveness of the defensive and control powers would have to be altered to make it fair.  idk why you'd assume they'd do it like that.  It's entirely possible to make this into an AT that is playable and fun and a new playstyle dynamic.
 

If it has a Control Primary and an Armor Secondary there is no way it could be made "Fun". Effective, yes. Very survivable. But not "Fun".

 

Same for Defense/Support.

 

Don't care what values you tie to their defenses, controls, or support abilities, it would still suck a whole bag of rocks to try and play that character for any length of time.

 

Early on you wouldn't be able to do much of anything. Then in the late-mid range (35-45) you'd get -kind- of useful. And then in the Endgame you'd go back to being largely useless.

 

And I "Assume" they'd follow the current archetype paradigm because there's no reason to assume they'd completely discard all their current balancing setups -just- for this one archetype. Full on discard all the end cost, effectiveness, ,damage, and recharge time mechanics, Archetype Scalar Priorities based on Primary/Secondary Sets, and other levers.

 

Because there's no reason to assume they WOULD be willing to completely start over from scratch on balancing just to make this one incredibly slow and plodding archetype to function.

 

Why in the world do you assume they'd do all that just to try and wedge this archetype that can barely do anything but "Not Die" in the general direction of the NPCs into the game? And can you imagine how hilariously unfortunate it would be to try and take this behemoth into PvP?

 

Woof.

 

That's what I'm gonna call this AT 'til you come up with a different name. The Behemoth.