Mastermind Farming: Discussion/Guide

[smnolimits41]

what about dual boxing Ninja's/Kinetics

[Neiska]

6 hours ago, smnolimits41 said:

what about dual boxing Ninja's/Kinetics

 

The advantage of multiboxing MMs is if you plan ahead it allows more freedom. You could 2 box a Ninja/Kin and a Ninja/Time and end up with quite sturdy and high damage pets. You could juggle the Power Boost + Farsight for a lot of Defense, then when that wears off you could pop Barrier to cover the gap in coverage. That would even leave you 1 spare incarnate power to pick, which you could take another Barrier if you didn't want to use the /time trick, or you could take ageless for END management.

 

But I am sure you could pair a ninja/kin with another MM to make the pets touch enough for hardest level difficulty. I started with Robots/EA and Robots/Time myself. 

[parallelbars]

On 9/13/2021 at 5:21 PM, RonJ73 said:

The HD version is currently processing, but should be ready shortly.  The SD version is fuzzy as heck. 🙂

Thank you so much for posting this video!! I wanted to see what this looked like so badly, and it didn’t disappoint. This is one of the most mindblowing things I have ever seen hahah. Cudos To you @Neiska

[Kiyro]

What multiboxing software do you use? It's been years since I multiboxed a game and at the time I just used a simple key forwarder. I love the idea though. All I play is MMs so for awhile I've been thinking about boxing as a solution to the "I'm not a brute" dilemma. 

[Neiska]

19 minutes ago, Kiyro said:

What multiboxing software do you use? It's been years since I multiboxed a game and at the time I just used a simple key forwarder. I love the idea though. All I play is MMs so for awhile I've been thinking about boxing as a solution to the "I'm not a brute" dilemma. 

 

I don't use any software. Which I believe is against the terms of use, but don't quote me. I simply load 3 accounts and have the power bars set exactly the same, and alt tab between them.

 

As explained in my original post, my two "box" mm's are on follow, with their own t3 pets as their target. This is so that they can use buffs/heals as their autocast powers instead of haste. The /Time has Heal, and the /Kinetics has Felcrum on autocast. Once all pets are up and buffed, I spend very little time on my "boxes". I simply tab to one, and pop a barrier, or click "all pets follow" and tab back to my EA. I actually spend about 80% of the time "piloting" my /Electric. Bodyguard and pet AI largely takes care of the rest. I would suggest try 2 boxing to begin before taking 3 on.

 

And it honestly isn't that difficult as many tools are already provided in CoH and the MM class itself. As 95% of your damage is done by the pets, you can sit back and let them attack what they want to, and you heal and buff them, instead of using them to kill X target first. The pets will get to them in a minute if you are patient. 

 

About the only time I tell pets to kill X target is mostly to get runners/stragglers from the pack. 95% of the time I am in bodyguard mode with all 3 MMs.

[jkwak]

i must say i never farmed my self because i couldnt stand the sheer boredome but this method is really fun, even when you dont have all the enhancements slotted yet it is not bad

currently going x4/+4 and only one of my two MMs has even half the needet enhancements

[Xandyr]

@Neiska I would love to be invited to your team sometime when you do this so I could see it in person. 

[Nyghtmaire]

Saw this in person yesterday. Holy smokes!! This was mind melting!!! I’m still in awe. MM farming is the real deal. Down to a science, and the results return MASSIVE RESULTS. Faster than anything else I’ve seen too from any other combination.

 

Just amazing…

[bustacap]

I did a couple also he started with Tanks Multiboxing but as that took 6 minutes he moved to the Bots and 2-3 minute Moon Map clears

[spurgo1977]

Tried it out with 4 MM but my robots get wrecked really fast. How do i raise resists? I think it's because resists are low...

[Neiska]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:16 AM, spurgo1977 said:

Tried it out with 4 MM but my robots get wrecked really fast. How do i raise resists? I think it's because resists are low...

Hello spurgo,

 

I need a bit more context to be able to point to exactly what the problem might be. But here are a few general things to consider -

1. What level are you? Are you fully level 50? Or are you still in the process of leveling?

2. What difficulty to play on?

3. What secondary powersets are you using?

4. Are you fully slotted or still in the process of getting geared up?

5. Are all your toggles on? Is your END management sustaining those toggles?

6. Do you have your autocasts going? The correct autocasts?

7. Are your pets staying within range of autocasts and buffs or are they running out of range and getting clobbered?

 

I am afraid there are a lot of possible causes, and without seeing what your current builds are or a bit more to go on, it is difficult to pinpoint. 

 

But you can equip pet IO sets that raise "some" resists, but most of it will come from your secondaries. Depending on what secondaries you have chosen, you may not have your big resist buffs yet. If that is the case, I would recommend lowering the difficulty until you reach that point.

 

This doesn't exactly help a lot, I know. But I need a bit more to go on to give advice. 

[Saebeas]

Would this still work with the changes to MM's taking some stuff and putting it into primary attacks, etc...?

[tidge]

7 hours ago, Saebeas said:

Would this still work with the changes to MM's taking some stuff and putting it into primary attacks, etc...?

 

I can't speak specifically to the original recommendations (builds or playstyles), but I think for the Robotics primary, S/L (non-AFK) farming is probably better. The Maintenance Drone alone should provide more reliable healing for the henchmen. The movement of the debuffs from the Robotic henchmen will have a small effect to be sure, but as a practical matter the main performance I have observed relative to that specific change is that the Robotics MM has to be more active in attacking (most) Giant Monsters/AVs than before... but that the net defeat times of those big-sacks-of-HP are quicker than before the change. (I always was active with MM attacks anyway, so I feel qualified to write the previous statement)

 

The other big change specific to Robotics is that almost all of the henchmen attacks do Knockdown instead of Knockback, this frees up slots. Prior to this change, Knockdown globals were necessary to keep enemy swarms clustered.

 

Yet one more minor improvement, but not specific to Robotics is that being able to skip the T1 power in the secondary allows more freedom of builds. I run a Robotics/Traps and the original forced secondary T1 pick of a single-target immobilize was NOT as good for 'farming' as the T2 Caltrops.

[Neiska]

20 hours ago, Saebeas said:

Would this still work with the changes to MM's taking some stuff and putting it into primary attacks, etc...?

 

It should still work. And while I have no current builds I can list there were no major changes to the powers that I did use. If anything, it would likely be better, but that is just me musing. I have not kept my builds publicly current and I am not actively playing much these days.

[Raikao]

Making a Brute for farming. Sure.

 

But multiboxing 3 MMs. At some point I'd rather just not even bother. I mean you do you, but I was kinda disappointed when the thread went to multiboxing.

[Neiska]

On 7/24/2023 at 6:28 AM, Raikao said:

Making a Brute for farming. Sure.

 

But multiboxing 3 MMs. At some point I'd rather just not even bother. I mean you do you, but I was kinda disappointed when the thread went to multiboxing.

 

Oddly enough, it was single MM farming that led me to this entire concept in the first place. Farming with a single MM isn't terribly efficient, they just don't hold up alone. At least to contend with Brutes, Tankers, or any of the other ATs capable of farming. And it was actually the pet threat tables/getting swarmed by 4-5 groups all at once that led me to this concept. If you dislike multi-boxing (and its completely fine if you do!), then your options are limited to actually "farm" with an MM. But multi-boxing MMs/pet swarming is very much a thing, or at least it was when I was actively playing. I have been on a bit of a hiatus but I still regularly check the forums.

 

And a note on MM farming - its possible to be largely hands-free. With my setup at most I was alt-tabbing to pop a buff or incarnate power, and alt tabbing back. The inherent pet AI and MM class itself does the majority of the work.

 

Again, is totally fine if you dislike multi-boxing. It definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea. But for many people it was something new, fresh, another way to farm that can be interesting or even exciting and enjoyable, rather than AFK farming with a Brute which can be mind-numbingly tedious or too repetitive for others. There is no "right" way to enjoy the game after all, but if you are expecting a single MM to be able to keep up with a brute on speed, survivability, damage, inf/minute and everything else, I think you would be hard pressed to do so 1 on 1. 3 on 3 though, the more enemies you fight at a time the more it favors the MM, due to expanded targets allowed. If you fight enough enemies at a time, you can actually surpass a brute. But I doubt a single MM by themselves would be able to do so. I am not saying its impossible, only that I have never found such in the 30 or so MM's I have experimented with.

[Raikao]

4 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

Oddly enough, it was single MM farming that led me to this entire concept in the first place. Farming with a single MM isn't terribly efficient, they just don't hold up alone. At least to contend with Brutes, Tankers, or any of the other ATs capable of farming. And it was actually the pet threat tables/getting swarmed by 4-5 groups all at once that led me to this concept. If you dislike multi-boxing (and its completely fine if you do!), then your options are limited to actually "farm" with an MM. But multi-boxing MMs/pet swarming is very much a thing, or at least it was when I was actively playing. I have been on a bit of a hiatus but I still regularly check the forums.

 

And a note on MM farming - its possible to be largely hands-free. With my setup at most I was alt-tabbing to pop a buff or incarnate power, and alt tabbing back. The inherent pet AI and MM class itself does the majority of the work.

 

Again, is totally fine if you dislike multi-boxing. It definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea. But for many people it was something new, fresh, another way to farm that can be interesting or even exciting and enjoyable, rather than AFK farming with a Brute which can be mind-numbingly tedious or too repetitive for others. There is no "right" way to enjoy the game after all, but if you are expecting a single MM to be able to keep up with a brute on speed, survivability, damage, inf/minute and everything else, I think you would be hard pressed to do so 1 on 1. 3 on 3 though, the more enemies you fight at a time the more it favors the MM, due to expanded targets allowed. If you fight enough enemies at a time, you can actually surpass a brute. But I doubt a single MM by themselves would be able to do so. I am not saying its impossible, only that I have never found such in the 30 or so MM's I have experimented with.

 

Well I have a Brute for Architect Farming. If that's still a thing (haven't played in 3+ years).

 

But luckily I know how to work the /AH so my MM is "outfarming" any Brute, technically :P Which kinda fits the AT as well. Work smarter not harder.

[jkwak]

the most importantly is how satisfying it looks to have an army of pets go up against an army of mobs

 

only downside of this farming method is how you fill the AE to the brim when multiple people decide to farm like this around the same time.... the other day Everlastings Pocket D AE was filled with Demons and Robots, i might look for an other AE to use my chibis there

Edited August 3, 2023 by jkwak

[Neiska]

9 hours ago, jkwak said:

the most importantly is how satisfying it looks to have an army of pets go up against an army of mobs

 

only downside of this farming method is how you fill the AE to the brim when multiple people decide to farm like this around the same time.... the other day Everlastings Pocket D AE was filled with Demons and Robots, i might look for an other AE to use my chibis there

 

I actually don't see many others farming in this way often anymore. If you see someone on Everlasting pocket D with 3 MMs, chances are that it's me. Of course, it could be other people doing it when I'm not on. But compared to a year or two ago the AE is a bit empty these days. You'll see some activity on the weekend, but most evenings its me and a few other fire farmers.

[Hedgefund2]

I decided to give this a go after seeing this thread bumped up.  I've got a LOT of lvl 50 MMs across 3 accounts and many of them Cold.  I did a little back of napkin math to see that 3 colds give 67.5% fire resists with no resist slotting, so I just needed to fill in 22.5% resists to get to 90 from 0, which is covered by the one of the two pet IOs granting 10% and the superior Mark of Supremacy resist/regen IO which grants 15%.

 

I fired up an asteroid map with a bots + thugs + demons, all Cold.  All the minions checked out to be well in excess of 45% to all the defenses and 90% fire.  I didn't monitor time, didn't think it would be relevant given that I wasn't trying to set records, just wanted to experience it.  It was... effective.  I only resummoned 1 pet for each of the 3 MMs (so 3 resummons total).  I did nothing to put a leash on them which I think would have made a huge difference because there were a lot of runners and subsequent chasers and a lot of dispersion amongst the pets.  I just kept changing windows to drop sleet and perhaps heat loss.

 

So I think I get the appeal, if I were in a phase of "stuff accumulation" I'd consider this as a means of farming, but those days are long behind and I shan't be doing this again.

 

Most distressing, when I was checking all the resistances of the pets, I noticed one was at 30%, where I was expected 35.  It turns out I never made superior the ATOs (3 groupings of 2 Mark of Supremacy, 1 set of 4 Command of MM).  Making those superior took 26.25% recharge bonuses up to 40%!!!!!, taking me from "close to perma Hasten" to "easily perma Hasten".  This was on a vet level 25 (no farming) so I put in a good amount of time with this character.  Ugh, I feel like I shortchanged him all that time.