Help me decide . . . Defender or Corrupter Trick Arrow and Assault Rifle

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Hew said:

I did the same thing flea did wth his corruptor, but found that even with school of sharks, ignite generally just isn't cutting it.

 

Back to the drawingboard, but still keeping the char! Just without ignite...

 

I'd imagine it works pretty well when on a team where things are already being immobilized/held by others and then you can just spray it.  I have a feeling I'll end up agreeing with you for when I'm the one having to do the immobilizing/holding.  In those cases your effective cast time for the power is actually the time it takes to get two powers off (back to 4+ seconds easily) which is a really long animation time.  I might keep it for just those teams though.

[Hew]

It does indeed work fairly well on teams with some significant immobs/holds; However, by the time the immobs get laid down, half the spawn is dead, and the effect of ignite is minimal at best, especially when you watch it tick down damage in small numbers against +whatevers. 😕

[Bionic_Flea]

Ignite works really well combined with Oil Slick, which was part of the point of my project.  I also have ignite slotted with the Frozen Blast set so it has a built in immob.

[ZemX]

3 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Ignite works really well combined with Oil Slick, which was part of the point of my project.  I also have ignite slotted with the Frozen Blast set so it has a built in immob.

Can you tell how well that proc is working in Ignite?  I know I used to have a Ragnarok:KD in Caltrops on one of my stalkers back in the day and it seems to work okay.  But the PPM mechanics would seem to suggest the proc rate is really low if it's calculated on the pet's power that ticks at an absurdly high rate (5/s).  Curious how often it would hold them in place without Oil Slick backing it up.

[Hew]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I also have ignite slotted with the Frozen Blast set so it has a built in immob.

I did this as well, but it doesnt fire as much or last as long as I would like 😕

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

Can you tell how well that proc is working in Ignite?  I know I used to have a Ragnarok:KD in Caltrops on one of my stalkers back in the day and it seems to work okay.  But the PPM mechanics would seem to suggest the proc rate is really low if it's calculated on the pet's power that ticks at an absurdly high rate (5/s).  Curious how often it would hold them in place without Oil Slick backing it up.

 

37 minutes ago, Hew said:

I did this as well, but it doesnt fire as much or last as long as I would like 😕

 

It works.  It doesn't go off as much as I would like either, but it usually snags at least a few in a group.  And if those few are minions, they are dead and don't yet know it.  It will get even better once I get to 50 and make it superior.  Oil slick helps a lot, but it's better at keeping things in it's own area.  Ignite's area is soo tiny.  That's the benefit of the immob proc -- if it hits, they are in the patch.

 

[Hew]

Nod flea, thats why i havent respec't it yet. Still pondering on that char. It rocks reasonably hard on teams, depending on difficulty. 

[Onlyasandwich]

Think of ignite as a single target boss burner that can sometimes be leveraged as an aoe.

 

It really shines on hard targets, and AR doesn't otherwise have stellar single target damage.

[Riverdusk]

Could also eventually try throwing spectral interface on top for another immob chance.   And of course for /dark there's also the lucky chance dark servant will tentacle things. 😀

Edited May 23, 2021 by Riverdusk

[Bionic_Flea]

The other thing I do is use Entangling Arrow and Ice Arrow to hold some in place before I ignite the oil slick on them.   The stuck ones tend to get the full force of ignite but even if they break free they still do the flippy floppy and catch oil patch damage.  The other interesting thing it does is make a traffic jam.  When they are all around you, two are stuck, and then the fire goes off, they all try to scramble and end up run into each other.  It's kinda funny.

[JayboH]

On 5/23/2021 at 7:11 AM, Bionic_Flea said:

The other thing I do is use Entangling Arrow and Ice Arrow to hold some in place before I ignite the oil slick on them.   The stuck ones tend to get the full force of ignite but even if they break free they still do the flippy floppy and catch oil patch damage.  The other interesting thing it does is make a traffic jam.  When they are all around you, two are stuck, and then the fire goes off, they all try to scramble and end up run into each other.  It's kinda funny.

How would you tweak this one?  I miss Ignite, but not sure what I should give up.  PGA is a nice chunk of damage debuff for example.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

SpecOps Pixie: Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Secondary Power Set: Assault Rifle
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Flash Arrow -- SphIns-ToHitDeb(A), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(3), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(3), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SphIns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SphIns-%ToHit(7)
Level 1: Burst -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Thn-Acc/Dmg(7), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Slug -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(13), Thn-Acc/Dmg(15), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 4: Glue Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Entangling Arrow -- Acc-I(A)
Level 8: Poison Gas Arrow -- Acc-I(A)
Level 10: M30 Grenade -- Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(23), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(25), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(25), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(27), Bmbdmt-Dam(27)
Level 12: Ice Arrow -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(A), SprEnt-End/Rchg(29), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(29), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(31), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(31), SprEnt-Acc/Hold(31)
Level 14: Acid Arrow -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(33), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(33)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 18: Disruption Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Sniper Rifle -- StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), StnoftheM-Dam%(34), StnoftheM-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(34), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(36), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(36), StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(36)
Level 22: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 26: Oil Slick Arrow -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(40)
Level 28: Flamethrower -- Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(42), Ann-ResDeb%(42), Ann-Acc/Dmg(43)
Level 30: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: EMP Arrow -- Lck-%Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Hold(43), Lck-Acc/Rchg(45), Lck-Rchg/Hold(45)
Level 35: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 38: Full Auto -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(45), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(46), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(46), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(48)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), Rct-ResDam%(48), Rct-Def(48), Rct-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 44: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(50), StdPrt-ResKB(50)
Level 47: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A)
Level 49: Infiltration -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Prv-Absorb%(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(19), Mrc-Rcvry+(19)
Level 2: Stamina -- SynSck-EndMod/+RunSpeed(A), SynSck-EndMod(21), PrfShf-End%(21), PrfShf-EndMod(23)
Level 49: Quick Form
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Spectral Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Robotic Drones Core Superior Ally
------------

 

 

[Spaghetti Betty]

I know the topic is about Defenders and Corruptors, but I wanted to throw a +1 to an AR/TA blaster. I've recently gotten  one to 50 and it's hands down one of my most fun blasters to play. Proc'd out Ice Arrow gives AR another strong ST attack. Gymnastics and Eagle Eye are amazing toggles that make the toon extremely sturdy. And AoE? Yeah, it lays down the law.

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.2.19
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

fox: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Assault Rifle
Secondary Power Set: Tactical Arrow
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Slug -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), Apc-Dmg(3), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(3), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Apc-Acc/Rchg(15), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 1: Electrified Net Arrow -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Buckshot -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(17), Artl-Acc/Dam(19), Artl-Dam/End(19), Artl-Dam/Rech(21), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(21)
Level 4: Glue Arrow -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), JvlVll-Dam%(5), PstBls-Dam%(5), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(7), ImpSwf-Dam%(7), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(9)
Level 6: Ice Arrow -- Dcm-Build%(A), GldJvl-Dam%(9), GldNet-Dam%(11), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(11), ImpSwf-Dam%(13), NrnSht-Dam%(13)
Level 8: M30 Grenade -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(23), Artl-Acc/Dam(23), Artl-Dam/End(25), Artl-Dam/Rech(25), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(27)
Level 10: Upshot -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 12: Sniper Rifle -- SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(A), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(34)
Level 14: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Flash Arrow -- SphIns-ToHitDeb(A), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(33), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SphIns-%ToHit(36), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(50)
Level 18: Flamethrower -- Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(A), Bmbdmt-Dam(34), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(34), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(36), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(36)
Level 20: Eagle Eye -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(42), Prv-Absorb%(42), Prv-Heal(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(43), Mrc-Heal(43)
Level 22: Invisibility -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Ignite -- RechRdx-I(A), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(46)
Level 28: Gymnastics -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Tough -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(31), GldArm-3defTpProc(31)
Level 32: Full Auto -- Rgn-Knock%(A), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Rgn-Dmg(37), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(40), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 35: ESD Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(39), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39), ShlWal-Def(39)
Level 41: Oil Slick Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFrt-Def(45), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(45), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), RedFrt-EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Burst -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(48), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(48), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(40)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(31), PwrTrns-+Heal(37)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
------------

[Bionic_Flea]

16 hours ago, JayboH said:

How would you tweak this one?  I miss Ignite, but not sure what I should give up.  PGA is a nice chunk of damage debuff for example.

My build is on the first post.  I skipped PGA because I'm not a fan of sleeps in this game.  And while it is a big damage debuff, that's only valuable if things are actively shooting and hitting you.  If they are dead, flopping, trying to run, or missing then -dam is not adding anything.

 

Your build seems fine, but if I were to tweak it, I would end up going back to my build.

[JayboH]

15 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

My build is on the first post.  I skipped PGA because I'm not a fan of sleeps in this game.  And while it is a big damage debuff, that's only valuable if things are actively shooting and hitting you.  If they are dead, flopping, trying to run, or missing then -dam is not adding anything.

 

Your build seems fine, but if I were to tweak it, I would end up going back to my build.

Yeah, usually mobs are not flopping or trying to run for a minute straight, which is how long PGA lasts.  Stacks with Ice Arrow, but maybe you are right.

 

I am also not a fan of sleeps other than the elec control patch, but that's not why I grabbed PGA.

 

Do you have end issues?

Edited August 9, 2021 by JayboH

[Bionic_Flea]

Actually, yes.  I did and made some changes to the posted build to help with that.  I put two Performance Shifters into Stamina in place of Power Transfers and a Miracle in place of the Numina in Health.  I also took Support Radial Hybrid.  With those changes it was fine as long as I wasn't shooting non-stop.

 

In newer builds I am 3 slotting Stamina -- 2 Power Transfers (end mod and proc) and the Performance Shifter Proc.  I had hoped that I could just exchange them two-for-two but that +endurance proc is stronger than I thought.

[GastlyGibus]

I know you've already decided, but for anybody else reading this, I would heartily advise against Assault Rifle on Defenders. AR has no secondary effects that can benefit from Defender values, and since you're left with straight damage at that point (most of it being lethal damage to boot) you hit about as hard as a pool noodle. I had a FF/AR Defender that I played to 35 before I eventually shelved them because even on teams I felt 100% useless, and soloing was an absolute chore.

 

Corruptors get the benefit of scourge as well as TA's debuffs to help mitigate AR's lack of them. AR needs to be buffed for Defenders to make it worthwhile as a set, in my opinion. On Blasters and Corruptors it's fine, but Defenders get the short end of the stick, being the least able to benefit from AR's "pure damage" niche.

Edited August 9, 2021 by GastlyGibus

[JayboH]

11 hours ago, GastlyGibus said:

I know you've already decided, but for anybody else reading this, I would heartily advise against Assault Rifle on Defenders. AR has no secondary effects that can benefit from Defender values, and since you're left with straight damage at that point (most of it being lethal damage to boot) you hit about as hard as a pool noodle. I had a FF/AR Defender that I played to 35 before I eventually shelved them because even on teams I felt 100% useless, and soloing was an absolute chore.

 

Corruptors get the benefit of scourge as well as TA's debuffs to help mitigate AR's lack of them. AR needs to be buffed for Defenders to make it worthwhile as a set, in my opinion. On Blasters and Corruptors it's fine, but Defenders get the short end of the stick, being the least able to benefit from AR's "pure damage" niche.

Is Archery worse?  I specifically remember Archery being incredibly low damage on defenders.

[GastlyGibus]

21 minutes ago, JayboH said:

Is Archery worse?  I specifically remember Archery being incredibly low damage on defenders.

I don't think so. Archery has the benefit of faster animations and attacks, and isn't a massive endurance-hog like AR. Power wise they're about the same in my opinion, but you're shooting faster, which means a slight damage boost. 

 

I should probably stress I'm not a numbers guy, I don't min-max, and this is all based on my personal experience. I never had issues with my TA/Archery defender, but Assault Rifle was such a slog for me I rerolled it as a corruptor and never looked back. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by GastlyGibus