Damage resistance caps

[Amerle]

Hi all ... So I hear a lot of discussion about soft cap and hard cap when folks are discussing their resistance levels....can someone explain the difference and any benefit of hitting the hard cap.  Thanks in advance!

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

5 minutes ago, Amerle said:

Hi all ... So I hear a lot of discussion about soft cap and hard cap when folks are discussing their resistance levels....can someone explain the difference and any benefit of hitting the hard cap.  Thanks in advance!

 

So you may be getting confused between resistance and defence
 

• Defence - the soft cap is 45% for reasons explained in great detail in other posts. This is the same for all Archetypes and is something a lot of people aim for when building a character. You can get way more defence than this by it has dimishing returns and isnt really worth it for non Tank/Brute/Scrapper toons without any DDR
   
• Resistance - the hard cap for resistance varies depending on archetype. Resitsance has a hardcap for example if you are a tanker with 90% resistance to smashing damge and get hit by an attack that hits for 100 you will only take 10 damage. There is no way to take any less damage than this from the attack thats why its a hardcap.
  • Tank & Brute = 90%
  • Peacebringer & Warshade = 85%
  • The rest = 75%

 

Obviously the best case scenario is to layer both defence and resitance, thats why sets like Invincability are so tanky. To use my above example again if you have 90% Smashing and also have 45% defence to either Melee/Smashing you barely ever get hit! and when you do get hit its only for 10% of the damage.

 

 

Most squishy toons like Blasters/Defenders/Controllers often build only for defence for a couple of reasons:

• Set bonus give barely any Resistance but loads of Defence
• Defence is better than Resitance in terms of performance for squishy toons like those mentioned

 

hope this helped a bit

[Snarky]

There is a few things about survival that are standard topics.  Def>Res>Heals.  That is extremely general but a good standard.  Now, take my Dark/Dark Brute.  No (very stinking little) Defense naturally available.  No DDR.  I god mid 30s Defense to S/L.  This is not horrid, but without DDR against tough mobs it is usually not worth much.  However, Dark/Dark plays with an underhanded deck.  It has Stealth (Enemies that do not see you will not attack...I hide from crap I dont wanna bother with)  It has two Mezze Auras.  Fear and Stun, and I have them enhanced out the yang for accuracy.  If you are cowering or wandering around like a rock hit you in the head you are not attacking me.  Hiding>Mezze>Def.  and, again, my defense.  well, i have some.  Resist.  Dark is a resist set and I built for it.  Very tough.  And Dark Melee has one of the best heals in the game.  So, even though Def>Res>Heal Dark/Dark cheats around it's weak defense like a four armed cheating poker player.  

 

Oh, and in Incarnate Trials Def softcvap is 65, but most leagues buff you in various ways, including a lot of us running Leadership +Defense powers

[siolfir]

To be a bit more specific the "soft cap" for defense is based on the to-hit formula, which gives a minimum of 5% chance for an even-con minion to hit you. There are accuracy factors involved, but the basis for it is that because most mobs have a base of 50% chance to hit, and this doesn't vary until you get into +6 or higher mobs, that any defense that works towards reducing it beyond 5% is wasted. Thus, a "soft cap."

 

Because there is a hard cap for defense as well: it's 175%-225% though, so well beyond what you need unless the mobs are running a lot of +to-hit. And some are. There's also an Incarnate soft cap of 59%, because mobs in Incarnate content have a 64% base chance to hit, so you need more than 45% there. Note that having defense above the cap, either hard or soft, works to prevent from dropping below them when hit with a debuff, which actually makes going above the soft-cap more valuable for sets without defense debuff resistance - it's just also harder to get there and so not usually worth the tradeoffs to do so.

 

For resistance, a soft cap isn't mentioned because there isn't one. You're capped at -300% resistance on the low end, and either 75%, 85% (for VEATs and Khelds), or 90% (for Brutes and Tankers) on the high end. Again, buffs past the cap work to offset resistance debuffs, which are already resisted by the resistance itself.

Edited June 16, 2021 by siolfir
+5 -> +6

[Amerle]

Thanks so much for the insight. I now realize that I've got a lot to learn.  This game can be as simple as you want or as complicated as you want. The rabbit hole goes very very deep.

[Neiska]

I think SoA's and Widows have the same res caps as Peacebringers/Warshades, I've gotten my Crabber up to 85% before. Not many folks build them that way, but still...

[Doomguide2005]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:18 PM, Amerle said:

Thanks so much for the insight. I now realize that I've got a lot to learn.  This game can be as simple as you want or as complicated as you want. The rabbit hole goes very very deep.

     Truth!

      Most of the time it barely matters on teams particularly radio missions at base difficulty.  And becomes as close to essential as anything in this game if you want to start soloing +4/×8 and AVs

 

     Edit: And I'm certain @siolfiris aware but it isn't until you run into +6 mobs that the base to hit goes up by +5% effectively moving the softcap to 50%.  A +5 mob is still at 50% base to hit.  Only their accuracy mod has increased (to 1.5).  And purple patch and ... Truth!

Edited June 11, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[Doomguide2005]

Woopsy duplication.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Doomguide2005

[Arbegla]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Truth!

      Most of the time it barely matters on teams particularly radio missions at base difficulty.  And becomes as close to essential as anything in this game if you want to start soloing +4/×8 and AVs

 

     Edit: And I'm certain @siolfiris aware but it isn't until you run into +6 mobs that the base to hit goes up by +5% effectively moving the softcap to 50%.  A +5 mob is still at 50% base to hit.  Only their accuracy mod has increased (to 1.5).  And purple patch and ... Truth!

 

One thing to consider though, is that Defense only counters tohit buffs. It doesn't do anything for accuracy modifiers at all.

 

Accuracy actually increases the 'floor' of a mobs final chance to hit you. Basically the 50% chance to hit is only for white (even level) minion class (1.0 Acc) mobs. Anything higher then that in either level, or rank will have a higher 'final' chance to hit you, due to their Accuracy modifiers, even if you have softcapped defense.

 

Basically tohit buffs/debuffs and defense buffs/debuffs are calculated first, then Accuracy is applied to that final number. So, if you have 45% defense, against a mob with an accuracy modifier of 1.5, and no other tohit buffs they actually have a 7.5% chance to hit you, instead of the 5% that you think they would have.

 

floor(AccMod * floor(tohit - defense)) so floor(1.5 * (floor(50-45)) = 1.5 * 5 = 7.5% final to hit.

[Doomguide2005]

     Yes, exactly why I responded with "Truth!" to Amerie's post.

 

     The equation you state at the bottom is still a simplified version.  Both the To Hit and Defense portions are simplified themselves.  To Hit is the net effect of To Hit Buffs and To Hit Debuffs as well as Defense being the net of Defense Buffs and Debuffs.   It's why the equation on the HCwiki says "DefMods" rather than just Defense.  And we still don't see the bottom 😉

 

     And I agree Accuracy mods are on the outside of those inner nested portions so characters can't counter those via defense.  A +5 AV (such as the not uncommon +4 AVs many a sidekick has faced) will have rank (1.5) and level difference (1.5) working in its favor.  Maybe the power itself has increased Accuracy as well.  And then add in the purple patch and that sidekicked Tanker might find Rommy or Recluse or any of a number of endgame AVs bit more painful than anticipated particularly if the particular damage is against a damage they don't resist near cap.

 

      I still remember watching a couple of SG mates running Brutes early on after Villains released.  Now granted this was pre IO but these were also a new foes.  They carried -resist in pretty much every attack.  Few foes blueside were even remotely similar.  Wailers shredded them.  Or similar things happened an issue earlier when Heroes encountered Red Caps the first time with Archery's innate Accuracy mods and proceeded to turn into pincushions.