Ill/Psn vs. Ill/Rad, who's the better killer?

[The_Warpact]

So...fiddling around on Mids and just making builds, then got into the thought process to see what would be a better GM/AV killer, solo TF runner, honestly I see that its easier on /Rad to get perma PA and better -regen. But, Psn has its strengths too with -recov in psn trap and comperable debuffs. Granted this is by numbers that I can see but, honestly which would be the better of the two?

The smaller radius of debuff on Psn is something to be considered but /Rad active toggle on RI to me is a drain, /Rad is a killer to be sure but would Psn as a faster debuff be beneficial for quick strikes with PA doing what they do best. Maybe I'm just trying to make Psn a workable set for slaying.

 

Thoughts?

 

[oedipus_tex]

Cold Domination or Trick Arrow IMO are probably better than either, if you're talking about sheer ability to strip the enemy of resistance and debuff their ability to respond, but I'm not sure if you're interested in those sets.

 

Between Rad and Poison my money is on Poison. But Poison's debuff aura in some ways plays against a ranged Phantom-Army-as-tank strategy.

 

Rad is an older set, a fan favorite from issue 1 that IMO in some ways hasn't really kept up with the times. It's certainly not bad, but I think a lot of the newer sets are better designed. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[The_Warpact]

9 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

TLDR Both have a lot of skippable powers so you have flexibility in building; Overall AM gives a big leg up when it comes to chasing bonuses. Rad is an early bloomer, Poison is the late bloomer; something to consider if exemplaring often.

 

-Recovery in PPT wont do anything to improve the situation unless you can sap Endurance too. One on one the -Recovery is not very effective because of how the clouds spawn from the trap and the low rate of applying the -Recovery debuff.

 

Ill/Rad is the better all rounder, its tough to beat AM. Ill/Rad is good out of the box and is very hard to jack up a build. It even has AM which has endurance management with its Recovery boost, plus a damage boost and about three Purple Sets worth of +Recharge too. If you plan to exemplar this is the better pick as you front load some of your best powers.

 

/Poison has the slightly better debuffs and big PROC potential. It can bosses out with double stacked ST Holds at range (you could feasibly do the same with CC + Blind in melee). PPT also has good uptime for added AoE Control/Damage. Ill/Poison is the "Pro" pick with a slightly higher upper end of performance. Its much more challenging to get PermaPA, PROC out powers and chase whatever other goals, like softcapping. Ill/Poison is a little rough if you start spamming your poison debuffs, especially if you are PROCed out.

 

I vote Ill/Poison for the fun factor and something more unique. Ill/Rads are a dime a dozen for good reason.

 

 

Yeah, I think I'm just trying to get the assurance that I need to go through with it.

Psn is a set I've been wanting to play for along time and making my solo GM/AV killer. I did forget about the procs, thanks.

[The_Warpact]

6 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

Cold Domination or Trick Arrow IMO are probably better than either, if you're talking about sheer ability to strip the enemy of resistance and debuff their ability to respond, but I'm not sure if you're interested in those sets.

 

Between Rad and Poison my money is on Poison. But Poison's debuff aura in some ways plays against a ranged Phantom-Army-as-tank strategy.

 

Rad is an older set, a fan favorite from issue 1 that IMO in some ways hasn't really kept up with the times. It's certainly not bad, but I think a lot of the newer sets are better designed. 

I had a demon/cold mm that was my GM killer for awhile and cold is an outstanding set, TA I've never really messed with.

I think I'm trying to really want to make Psn a successful set for what I want it to do. Thanks.

[Braddack]

3 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

I had a demon/cold mm that was my GM killer for awhile and cold is an outstanding set, TA I've never really messed with.

I think I'm trying to really want to make Psn a successful set for what I want it to do. Thanks.

My Main is an Illu Poison, and he wrecks so hard, no matter if solo AV / GM Hunting or Teaming, the Debuffs are ungodly good.

[The_Warpact]

7 hours ago, Braddack said:

My Main is an Illu Poison, and he wrecks so hard, no matter if solo AV / GM Hunting or Teaming, the Debuffs are ungodly good.

You have your build that you could post? I've made a few so far but I'm just not happy, I think primarily I'm trying to get cap on def/res AND get the rech I need.

[Xandyr]

Illusion/Dark

[Braddack]

5 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

You have your build that you could post? I've made a few so far but I'm just not happy, I think primarily I'm trying to get cap on def/res AND get the rech I need.

Sadly i dont have an Build for you as i never used Mids, i am kinda a Newbie here.

 

But its pretty simple, you dont need Res / Def on this Toon, only as much as possible Recharge.

 

Your PA has an Build in Taunt in any Attack and your Superior Invisibility has an buid in Tread Reduction. So you normaly never get any agro.

 

for larger spawns your Poison Trap locks all reliable down.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Braddack

[The_Warpact]

9 hours ago, Braddack said:

Sadly i dont have an Build for you as i never used Mids, i am kinda a Newbie here.

 

But its pretty simple, you dont need Res / Def on this Toon, only as much as possible Recharge.

 

Your PA has an Build in Taunt in any Attack and your Superior Invisibility has an buid in Tread Reduction. So you normaly never get any agro.

 

for larger spawns your Poison Trap locks all reliable down.

Yeah I usually build my toons like tanks with soft cap res/def, this is one think I wondered if I just shoot for high rech and leave it at that.

[The_Warpact]

37 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

This is a planned build with the Presence pool (for teaming and testing) in place of the Experimentation pool (I really like this pool for soloing and theme):

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- (A)(3)(3)(5)(5)(7)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- (A)
Level 2: Deceive -- (A)(7)(9)(9)(11)
Level 4: Pacify -- (A)(50)
Level 6: Flash -- (A)(17)(19)(19)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- (A)(21)
Level 10: Hasten -- (A)(21)
Level 12: Group Invisibility -- (A)(23)
Level 14: Envenom -- (A)(23)(25)
Level 16: Weaken -- (A)(25)(27)(27)(29)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- (A)(29)(31)(31)(31)(33)
Level 20: Intimidate -- (A)
Level 22: Invoke Panic -- (A)(33)(33)
Level 24: Combat Teleport -- (A)(48)(50)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- (A)(34)(34)(34)(36)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- (A)(36)(36)(37)(37)(37)
Level 30: Unrelenting -- (A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- (A)(39)(39)(39)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- (A)(40)(40)(40)(42)(42)
Level 38: Scorpion Shield -- (A)(42)(43)(43)
Level 41: Poisonous Ray -- (A)(43)(45)(45)(45)
Level 44: Disruptor Blast -- (A)(46)(46)(46)(48)(48)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- (A)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- (A)(50)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Brawl -- (A)
Level 1: Sprint -- (A)
Level 2: Rest -- (A)
Level 2: Swift -- (A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- (A)
Level 2: Health -- (A)(11)(13)(13)
Level 2: Stamina -- (A)(15)(15)(17)
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
------------

 

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With Experimentation:

  Reveal hidden contents

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Experimentation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- (A)(3)(3)(5)(5)(7)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- (A)
Level 2: Deceive -- (A)(7)(9)(9)(11)
Level 4: Toxic Dart -- (A)(17)
Level 6: Flash -- (A)(19)(19)(21)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- (A)(21)
Level 10: Hasten -- (A)(23)
Level 12: Group Invisibility -- (A)(23)
Level 14: Envenom -- (A)(25)(25)
Level 16: Weaken -- (A)(27)(27)(29)(29)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- (A)(31)(31)(31)(33)(33)
Level 20: Experimental Injection -- (A)
Level 22: Corrosive Vial -- (A)(33)(34)
Level 24: Combat Teleport -- (A)(34)(34)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- (A)(36)(36)(36)(37)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- (A)(37)(37)(39)(39)(39)
Level 30: Adrenal Booster -- (A)
Level 32: Phantasm -- (A)(40)(40)(40)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- (A)(42)(42)(42)(43)(43)
Level 38: Scorpion Shield -- (A)(43)(45)(45)
Level 41: Poisonous Ray -- (A)(45)(46)(46)(46)
Level 44: Disruptor Blast -- (A)(48)(48)(48)(50)(50)
Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- (A)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- (A)(50)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Brawl -- (A)
Level 1: Sprint -- (A)
Level 2: Rest -- (A)
Level 2: Swift -- (A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- (A)
Level 2: Health -- (A)(11)(13)(13)
Level 2: Stamina -- (A)(15)(15)(17)
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
------------

 

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Ty ill check when I get home.

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

 

I think PermaPA. and capped RES + DEF may be difficult but probably doable if its a goal; lots of sets offering Ranged DEF bonuses offer +RECH too. I haven't really explored the idea with this combo yet.

 

The big tradeoff depends on how much PROCing you want to do. On Controllers builds, my general rule of thumb after getting key powers to Perma or near Perma status, the choices is usually split; either build for RES + Ranged DEF or S/L DEF + PROCs. Strong DEF Secondaries can generally go for capped DEF + PROCs + RECH (Permawhatever), a DEF Epic just makes capping, PROCing and Perma easier in most cases; less slots on DEF bonuses, more slots for PROCs.

 

With this combo, even if you can pull off slotting PROCs, the ST Debuffs are a little bit higher End per Animation so you'll tank your End and can't recover with too many toggles running. The debuffs themselves endure for 30s so they aren't necessary to spam in most situations unless you have several hard targets to deal with.

 

I'll repost when I'm done optimizing my build and figuring out what works for me; thats like the seventh iteration. The builds I posted has altslotting that brings it up to permaPA; its more me trying to experiment and brainstorm where I want to go with the build. Its a good combo but I'm distracted by crippling altitis so she's sitting in the high 30s right now.

 

Yeah after reviewing in my mind which direction I want go I'm going to shoot for Def and Perma. 

Stay out of melee with the blitz strike option of debuffs and let the pets cause all the havoc.

I know in some situations with AVs/GMs there will be the "oh shizz" i just got overwhelmed. 

But all part of the game.

[The_Warpact]

Ok this is what I came up.   Although taking it out against Scrapyard I didn't even dent him....

 

 

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