Are there AEs you think could just be part of the full game?

[TerroirNoir]

I have been going through a lot of the mission architect AEs and have obviously played things that go from really bad to really good. There are some that I think would just fit right in to the main game immediately though and some that would with a little bit of fixing.

 

Have the rest of you a list of games like that?

 

The dev choices are weird because they contain both arcs that could fit right in like the above mentioned ones and also arcs that are fun but really should be only in the AE because they would not work in the game at all even though they might be a good experience to play.

 

I have not finished all their stuff but these three writers I would put any of their stuff that I have played so far into the main game. @Darmian and @cranebump and @Take One. I am not excluding others yet but I just have not got to them properly.

 

Darmian has a whole set of Praetoria work that feels part of the game and their other stuff feels the same. But I have not finished the long story yet so I will finish that.  Cranebump has stuff that is really right for the Kings Row feel and when I am playing it I feel I should be running to Blue Shield to level up when it is done. Take One has stuff that involves West Libertalia and they also have the same exact feel I get from when I play anything with that.

 

But that is just me and the story AEs that I like playing.

Edited September 30, 2021 by TerroirNoir

[cranebump]

All of Darm's stuff is so well grounded in Lore than it can be slipped in pretty easily (esp. the Praet stuff).  I'd add that there's a slew of arcs with (at the very least) selected missions that could work as radios, or even tips, with a bit of tweaking.

 

As far as "fitting into the game," I liken finding that fit to locating "where the sidewalk ends" (with certain stories), then working in those open spaces. For example, my current Cage arcs are based on the question, "What happened to the Iron Widow after she was kidnapped and released (in the Petrovich arc)?" She seems to be gone for good. But what if she came back, ostensibly to continue "the good fight" on behalf of the Scrapyarders (not to mention in honor of her husband)? Boom! There is a gap to work in right there, so that's where I went (and ended up writing myself into 4 arcs [2 done, 2 I still have to design]). Using a similar "What's missing?" philosophy led me to fiddle around with a low level vill TF arc because there really isn't a Pos1/2 analogue (hence, The Port Oakes Task Force [pts I & II]).  Darm's Praet arcs fall into similar spaces (and more firmly than mine, I'd say).

 

Lore-adjacent or not, there's a ton of AE stories that can be wedged into any zone on the basis of the contacts there, and the zone's general feel. For example, I return to KR in original arcs because (1) I think of the zone as home for my street level vigs, and (2) I want that Daredevil/Hell's Kitchen vibe. If it's not already clear from the way several of my stories end, I lean a lot toward the idea that, on the heroic side, at least, you're doing some real good, but, in the end, it's like trying to hold back the ocean. All victory is fleeting, and some wins feel like losses. That's what the Row says to me.

 

Now, if I can just figure out what, say, Skyway says to me, I might trundle on over there for a bit.:-)

Edited September 30, 2021 by cranebump

[TerroirNoir]

As I said I have much more SFMAs to play but I think some of the AEs could be transferred to the actual game easily with regards to the plots and stories.  I do not know how easy it would be to change all the code since I read somewhere on here that the in game missions are quite different in make to the AEs even if they look almost the same. It is just a suggestion to fill in more missions I feel. If these are already there then maybe something other than the Dev Choices, even though I am looking forward to the next ones, or the Hall of Fame although most of those seem to be farm things, could be done. 

 

If I was playing the Skulls in Kings Row and ended up doing a @cranebump set of arcs sideways from that then that would be very cool. Or if I was on the Christine Lansdale mission then ended up doing some @Take Onerelated missions that also would be cool.

 

(Please excuse phone use earlier. I have fixed my typos).

[Darmian]

Well, thanks for the vote of confidence!  But personally I don't think it is difficult to build/create an AE that is Lore compliant with the game as is, it just takes a bit of time. In order to do that you have to explore the arcs and game world already in existence first and then I'd add you could read the novels (if you can find them!) and the comics (they're all here.)

 

Now, the in game material (plus novels & comics*) are pretty much it for "actual canon".  You can also deep dive in the Lore AMAs as well but they're mostly post 2012 sunset responses based on intentions, rememberings, contradictions between various original developers and outright nonsense and some humour. That's not to say they're worthless, they aren't. But for example discussions on where they considered taking the game are not the same as where they would have taken the game, if you see what I mean. TLDR = do read them but they're not ironclad set in stone.

 

Anyway, all of that just goes to say that you could build a decent lore AE from, for instance, Proton's back story, with a little thought on how he ended up in Primal. What happened him after the Twinshot arc?  Come to think of it why hasn't Positron of Primal had long chats with him about his armour?  Lots of things there, and that's just off the top of my head. Grym and Dillo are even more of a blank slate than Proton! Manticore is seen as the Shining Stars' mentor but is it because of Twinshot, or is it because of Proton?

 

* A lot of the material in the comics, due to it happening coterminously with the evolution of the game's timeline, gets effectively retconned. The novels, being set in the past prior to the game's launch, don't suffer from this.

 

The other two writers you've mentioned are very good at what they do. I'd add @Ankylosaurto that list as well, since he deep dives into lore in ways that we don't. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Darmian

[TerroirNoir]

Just now, Darmian said:

The other two writers you've mentioned are very good at what they do. I'd add @Ankylosaurto that list as well, since he deep dives into lore in ways that we don't. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses.

On @cranebump's recommendation I have added @Ankylosaurto my play list.

[Ankylosaur]

@Darmian thanks for the vote of confidence as well! 

 

The most "outside the lore" of mine is Adventures in Wonderland, and even it has an anchor in the in game reality (as much as the books do).

 

My arc list is long, and a bit daunting, but if you ever want details about the areas of the lore the arcs explore let me know.

 

Like @cranebump I often have questions that inspire me to explore an answer

• How did people end up in the Shadow Shard?
• Where did the snakes in the isles come from?
• What if people wanted to embrace Eden / DE as a return to nature / paradise?
• Who is gathering and supplying Arachnos, Longbow, the Family, and the Council with Praetorian Tech?
• How come Marshall has not tried to weaponize the Arachnoids?
• What is King Midas' story?
• Where are the Carnival of Light, Forlorn, and other evacuees calling home now?
• How come Arachnos is not trying to get new magic from Croatoa?
• Why isn't the Order of the Winds coming down on Scirocco and Ice Mistral?
• What does Langston Corp. do? (never did work in Gold Brick candy into that though I meant to. 🙂 )
• Why does Port Oakes still not have a governor named by Recluse?
• What is Astoria like after Mot is defeated?
• Why did the Circle stop making appearances in Faultline and Dark Astoria (after they were revamped)?
• Why are the Nictus still hanging out on earth after thousands of years of not conquering it?

And sometimes I just have an idea for a fun use of a mob or custom mob or map I have never used before that I try to shoehorn in. 😉

Edited October 1, 2021 by Ankylosaur

[NyxiaSnow]

I agree with everything said in here so far, but just to add my two cents to the conversation I feel a few AE arcs can also be introduced into the game like Radio/Newspaper' type missions. Granted it would be nice to have an actual contact to talk to in the game world, and getting to choose where you need to go to do the missions and talk to random contacts in the game world itself.

 

I think most dedicated AE authors, like the people mentioned above, are actively trying to make arcs that are lore friendly. Everyone here is trying to answer some question or expand on some aspect of the game.

 

Mine too are centered around certain aspects of the lore that I want expanded on, and just took it upon myself to write those arcs and be as lore friendly as possible.

 

To give an example, I'd say my arc on the Nictus war tries expands on things that, in the AMAs, they said had reached a dead-end due to staff changes with people who were working on it leaving the team. So 'Kheldian Uprising' attempts to add to it by establishing the Nictus as a genuine Nemesis/Council style threat. It has you explore the origins of the Nictus, deal with the head honchos on Earth, and hopefully add gravity to the entire war; while still being open ended enough that there can be further expansion on the topic in either direction moving into the future or past. It was also my first arc!

Spoiler

(I even have loads of easter eggs hidden in it, like the optional boss Requiem announcing he'd escape to the past (Cimorora), and a secret hidden ending where if you fail the last mission it has major ramifications such as Twilight's Son disappearing from Ouroboros, and explaining the origins of Dimension Lamda Rho 57-20 (aka the Werewolf dimension), where the main bad guy won in the Kheldian War.)

 

As a bonus expansion on my point, the following section contains spoilers for my Webb of Destruction Arc; I'd recommend you play it yourself before reading this, but here's a bit of behind the scenes:

Spoiler

 

To preface this: There is a mission blueside where you fight your alternate dimension version of you. It was originally implied that this clone was either Primal or Praetorian you, depending on your alignment. But there was apparently a big outcry from players that they wanted to personally create their own Praetorian counterpart. Pinned to this is there is no lore on Arachnos' origins. Also, in my opinion, Cole is a tragic hero and deserves a better nuanced explanation for why he did the things he did...

 

Enter my arc - It attempts to do a lot of things at once, and I think, from the reviews I've gotten, does so successfully without being too complex? The trilogy seeks to answer/expand on four things:

 

1. What is the rest of the Praetorian world like/what was it during the Hamidon War? - Answer is arc 1: I really tried to frame it as a fight for survival, it was just lucky that the Croatoa maps have the green haze so I could explain that as radiation from the nuclear suicide a lot of countries chose over Hamidon's occupation.

 

2. Why did Cole do what he did? - Answer is Arc 1: Praetoria is pretty awful during the Hamidon Wars and Cole tried resolving the war by escaping to/conquering our dimension

 

3. Who founded Arachnos? - Answer is in arc 2: Time traveling Praetorians that founded Arachnos as a means to stop Hamidon before he became too powerful, remaining in the boundaries of the lore that it was founded in Italy, and 'The Weaver' (Russo in my arc) and Weaver-One (Dr. Webb) were both founding members.

 

4. Why do you never see the Praetorian version of you in game? - Answer is in arc 3: In conjunction to the regular redside arc you play in Ouroboros, Mender Tesseract has you assassinate yourself in the past (the time traveling Praetorian), and then announces at the end of the arc that the other menders found that changing the past so that you never arrived in Primal Earth was better for the casualty curve... So it avoids the pitfall of taking agency away from players and how they want their Praetorian counterpart to be, but also explains to those that don't have a plan for their Praetorian Counterpart why they never see themselves in game; All while framing it in the larger Ouroboros story of trying to get Recluse into power/making him stronger. (I even have a hidden letter from Dream Doctor lying around in one mission).

 

Also Dr. Brian Webb was the founder of Portal Corp in Primal Earth, but I explained in my arc that his company in Praetoria had been lost in New York after the Nuke went off in Shroud City next door. The Clockwork tech was stolen by Berry after Webb disappeared to our timeline but again that's just a small easter egg (and I really don't like Berry so I'll do anything to take a shot at him...)

 

 

All in all I think if it were up to me, all our missions would be added to the game! Loads of authors seek answer questions, and I think adding them to the game would make the entire lore aspect better... only problem is trying to get all the overlapping stories to fit into a larger narrative (and getting people to actually read the arc content)! 😜

Edited October 4, 2021 by NyxiaSnow

[Darmian]

I'll say right now that you should go out and play @NyxiaSnow's  "Kheldian Uprising" and "Webb of Destruction" trilogy.  Definitely worth it.

[TerroirNoir]

1 minute ago, Darmian said:

I'll say right now that you should go out and play @NyxiaSnow's  "Kheldian Uprising" and "Webb of Destruction" trilogy.  Definitely worth it.

I have added those to my list too and I have decided not to read Nyxiasnow's hidden text!  I like surprises in the stories I play. My list is getting longer all the time now though but that is a good thing I feel.

[GM Impervium]

On 10/1/2021 at 2:29 PM, Ankylosaur said:

@Darmian thanks for the vote of confidence as well! 

 

The most "outside the lore" of mine is Adventures in Wonderland, and even it has an anchor in the in game reality (as much as the books do).

 

My arc list is long, and a bit daunting, but if you ever want details about the areas of the lore the arcs explore let me know.

 

Like @cranebump I often have questions that inspire me to explore an answer

• How did people end up in the Shadow Shard?
• Where did the snakes in the isles come from?
• What if people wanted to embrace Eden / DE as a return to nature / paradise?
• Who is gathering and supplying Arachnos, Longbow, the Family, and the Council with Praetorian Tech?
• How come Marshall has not tried to weaponize the Arachnoids?
• What is King Midas' story?
• Where are the Carnival of Light, Forlorn, and other evacuees calling home now?
• How come Arachnos is not trying to get new magic from Croatoa?
• Why isn't the Order of the Winds coming down on Scirocco and Ice Mistral?
• What does Langston Corp. do? (never did work in Gold Brick candy into that though I meant to. 🙂 )
• Why does Port Oakes still not have a governor named by Recluse?
• What is Astoria like after Mot is defeated?
• Why did the Circle stop making appearances in Faultline and Dark Astoria (after they were revamped)?
• Why are the Nictus still hanging out on earth after thousands of years of not conquering it?

And sometimes I just have an idea for a fun use of a mob or custom mob or map I have never used before that I try to shoehorn in. 😉

 

Looking through that list, I can confidently say that you'll appreciate the content coming with page 3 😃

 

More on-topic, keep the names coming, folks! We're always on the lookout for new Devs Choice candidates!

[Ankylosaur]

20 minutes ago, GM Impervium said:

Looking through that list, I can confidently say that you'll appreciate the content coming with page 3 😃

 

@GM Impervium I am sure I will! (Though I am also fairly confident that I will have a hundred things to edit to make them gel with the "new canon" introduced by Page 3. 🙂 )

 

Said another way - I've answered all those questions in my own way, and if my answers are different than yours I either have to parallel universe mine or rework them to make them fit in. (e.g. I saw you shared a Goldbricker screenshot, and if my answer for "what's King Midas' story" / "what does Langston do" is different - which I can't imagine its not - I will have to figure out how to fit it in. And am already planning for that change.)

 

But such is the risk of authoring!   

Edited October 5, 2021 by Ankylosaur

[Darmian]

4 hours ago, Ankylosaur said:

But such is the risk of authoring! 

That's what Portal Corp is for!

 

 

[cranebump]

Change for the new lore? Pshaw! The lore must come to ME!:-) 
 

(though I do wonder if any community ideas will be appropriated-there’s enough of them certainly).

Edited October 6, 2021 by cranebump