Invul/Mace critique plz

[tidge]

20 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

No.  Dull Pain is nice.  But on a high end Invuln it becomes an afterthought.  Sorry.
A lot of times, people use it ONLY for the heal.  They forget to use it at opportune times. 

 

My Inv Tank is no Mind/Psi Dominator, but when I'm tanking Lord Recluse I always keep Dull Pain up for the +MaxHP. In most other content, I rarely touch it... but I'm still benefiting from the 6xPreventive Medicine set bonuses for a heckuva lotta content.

[The_Warpact]

Wow this thread has turned into a very meaty discussion. Besides the math that is all the underlying center of the proc side discussion. 

The rest is opinion and playstyle, based in personal preference and experience. 

In my case it factors from an unknown nugget of conversation I once heard concerning Dull Pain. That being said I believe everyone is right in their own way. BUT, now that this proc discussion has come up, I will go above and beyond and still slot all of them because I *might* need that extra well of stuff to draw upon just in *case* happens ie a black swan event.

On the other hand that lends credence to my thought process is how the new difficulty settings coming up will factor into the need to possible draw upon those resources that may or not be needed. I would rather err on the side of caution and just slot it.

I'm already there on res/def so why not strengthen the other stuff up?

Unless I'm misreading everything I've just read.

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

 

If you "flat out aren't taking damage". why bother toggling on the resistance powers? think of all the Endurance you can save!

Excuse me, I'm going to go facepalm over this...

[PapaSlade]

21 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Excuse me, I'm going to go facepalm over this...

I read that as going to "faceplant over this"....I've been teaming with Warpact way too long.

[Hyperstrike]

7 minutes ago, PapaSlade said:

I read that as going to "faceplant over this"....I've been teaming with Warpact way too long.

[The_Warpact]

1 hour ago, PapaSlade said:

I read that as going to "faceplant over this"....I've been teaming with Warpact way too long.

Oh no no no your the one that decides to go tackle the 50 minions, 10 bosses, and 2 AVs by yourself lol.

[ZemX]

On 10/29/2021 at 12:20 PM, Maelwys said:

Those two are more floaty; since +Recovery =/= +Endurance
The first scales with your maximum Endurance pool (Accolades and set bonuses) and the second is flat.

 

Oddly enough... not in this case.  Both Panacea and Perf.Shifter offer +end%.  So they do scale with max. endurance.  My 120end Tanker receives 12hp ticks from Perf. Shifter's +10% end proc (actually 12.09 for some odd reason, but whatever).  The other benefit of the proc is that it's always +10% whereas the EndMod, like any enhancement, can scale down when you exemplar.  If you never do that, it's not an issue and you'll always be pretty close to the same as the Perf.Shifter with a 50+5 EndMod IO (13.25% vs 15%).  But if you do, not only will the EndMod in Stamina be less effective (by a little) but so will all the EndRdx you have slotted in powers.  But that Perf.Shifter proc keeps going for 10% end no matter what.  

 

As to the unreliability of a proc, if you're in a situation where going one minute without a +10% boost to your end has you bottom out it means you have a serious deficit of overall recovery to address. i.e. Your problem is not the proc's variance.  Otherwise there is plenty of time for the proc to happen and you really can consider it equivalent to 15% end/min.

 

I don't think we're talking huge differences either way in Stamina but it's a bigger difference in powers that offer less base recovery than Stamina.  Like Physical Perfection.  On the flip side, powers that offer more base recovery than Stamina are better with an EndMod first.

[Xandyr]

33 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Oh no no no your the one that decides to go tackle the 50 minions, 10 bosses, and 2 AVs by yourself lol.

That's what tanks do!

[The_Warpact]

46 minutes ago, Xandyr said:

That's what tanks do!

You miss the part about faceplanting?

[Maelwys]

That's interesting RE the +Endurance scaling... I could have sworn that +Endurance is always a flat boost (and/or based on your Base Maximum rather than your Adjusted Maximum, the same way that the "Absorb" mechanic functions)! 😕

 

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

As to the unreliability of a proc, if you're in a situation where going one minute without a +10% boost to your end has you bottom out it means you have a serious deficit of overall recovery to address. i.e. Your problem is not the proc's variance.  Otherwise there is plenty of time for the proc to happen and you really can consider it equivalent to 15% end/min.

 

My characters (at least the ones without Ageless!) aren't likely to bottom out in a minute, but it is pretty rare for them to remain between 1% and 89% endurance for prolonged periods of time. A minute simply seemed like a good benchmark: at endgame that's several spawns of regular mobs, or most if not all of an AV fight.

My major complaint about PS is that its average performance might be decent, but how it delivers that performance is in practice very "spikey" (they both kick in every 10 seconds in auto powers, but I'd much rather have Panacea's 50% chance for 7.5% Endurance than PS's 25% chance for 10% Endurance!). 

I'm a mathhead whenever it comes to character building. When planning my character's level 50 build I'll always work out an optimum attack chain ahead of time; and then calculate the exact global recharge rate and recovery required to maintain that chain indefinitely (whilst running all their toggles etc) ... but PS's spikiness makes it difficult for me to rely on that particular proc activating during any period where the character would benefit fully from its effect. I'm always short on enhancement slots, and for me the return granted by a PS proc in Stamina will very rarely actually equal or exceed that of a regular +5 Common IO; because their endurance bar will hardly ever remain under 90% full for long periods of time.

Admittedly I rarely exemp my fully-IOed characters except for TFs - and there are usually enough buffs flying around then that losing a bit of Damage or Endurance slotting is not a major concern for me.
 

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

I don't think we're talking huge differences either way in Stamina but it's a bigger difference in powers that offer less base recovery than Stamina.  Like Physical Perfection.  On the flip side, powers that offer more base recovery than Stamina are better with an EndMod first.

Yeah, that lack of much difference in Stamina is pretty much why PS's proc remains firmly in last place on my +recovery wishlist.

I'm all for cramming as much performance into a build as possible, but +Recovery is one of the few effects that become essentially worthless to stack more of after it reaches a certain point. So generally once I hit that figure, any extra enhancement slots will get thrown into boosting damage output, damage mitigation or recharge.

Physical Perfection typically just gets a Power Transfer Proc thrown into its default slot, unless I really want to scrounge a spare slot from Health (Panacea in one, Miracle in the other...) 😀
 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Maelwys

[Xandyr]

7 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

You miss the part about faceplanting?

You miss the part about being a TANK? 🤣